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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Jol missed out by a point, Redknapp did it twice, AVB set a points record, Poch did a fine job but it was always coming, under Levy we have only moved in one direction.

Still missed out
Did it twice, including once when we didn't end up in the CL so it was pointless.
Still missed out so pointless

I agree we've overall been moving in one direction but as I said, let's actually make sure we finish in the top 4 again without Poch before congratulating ourselves on a job well done. If, GHod forbid, we don't finish in the top 4 in the next 2-3 seasons for instance (and don't win anything), we'll have spent a lot of money, changed the stadium and training ground (and manager) to go from best of the rest to...best of the rest.

As it is, I think that won't happen. But I'm not going to make assumptions just yet.
 
Still missed out
Did it twice, including once when we didn't end up in the CL so it was pointless.
Still missed out so pointless

I agree we've overall been moving in one direction but as I said, let's actually make sure we finish in the top 4 again without Poch before congratulating ourselves on a job well done. If, GHod forbid, we don't finish in the top 4 in the next 2-3 seasons for instance (and don't win anything), we'll have spent a lot of money, changed the stadium and training ground (and manager) to go from best of the rest to...best of the rest.

As it is, I think that won't happen. But I'm not going to make assumptions just yet.
I agree.

But the Stadium etc will be the engine to allow every season to be a shot at the to 4 and higher.
 
Meh, there's almost certainly an element of recall and outcome bias in there. These players were great therefore of course we should have gotten top 4.

Pretty much nobody was saying that we'd be getting top 4 four times in a row when Poch was hired, nor that we'd be finishing 2nd or getting to the CL final.

There is no guarantee that some of the players who stepped up would have done so in the same way under another manager.
I seem to remember telling anyone who would listen that his predecessor was bricking the bed. It was clear that we should have been doing significantly better than we were in the months before Poch. That's not to say he didn't do a very good job, but it was a combination of good club/players/setup/chairman and a good manager that achieved it.
 
Hootnow sums up my feelings on Levy and Enic. I can accept they have done a brilliant job but ultimately I support the club because of family connections and because I want the club to win trophies. I don’t support them and get overjoyed when I see balance sheets or the training ground so in that sense I do find the level of fandom towards them rather baffling. I fully accept they don’t go out on the pitch so in many ways they cannot directly impact how the team performs on the pitch but the other “big 6” clubs have won trophies plural over the last decade which is the main reason why I support a football club, to see them win things.
 
Hootnow sums up my feelings on Levy and Enic. I can accept they have done a brilliant job but ultimately I support the club because of family connections and because I want the club to win trophies. I don’t support them and get overjoyed when I see balance sheets or the training ground so in that sense I do find the level of fandom towards them rather baffling. I fully accept they don’t go out on the pitch so in many ways they cannot directly impact how the team performs on the pitch but the other “big 6” clubs have won trophies plural over the last decade which is the main reason why I support a football club, to see them win things.

Because you and @Hootnow miss the point

- No one is fanboying our balance sheet, what people are appreciating is the club has been managed in a way that has allowed us to overcome a massive financial disparity that ENIC/Levy inherited, get good results and close that gap to where we have now passed the Scum and Chelsea fiscally for the first time in multiple decades. This is very important as a future indicator of our ability to meet those ambitions that you talk about (winning things).
- The other clubs had not only in year advantage in revenue, but cumulative advantage (e.g. Scum earned CL revenue for over 16+ seasons in a row), that plus the draw of "guaranteed" CL participation was a massive disadvantage as a starting point
- Poch is irrelevant (I'm sorry and yes people will get angry because people fanboy him more than Levy), he is just another manager in a line of managers that so far have each improved on the predecessor's results, while I am glad for what he achieved and the feeling he created around the club, the fact that it is almost a linear improvement of results in 19 years means it's not "only" the manager, add in, BMJ, Harry, AVB and Poch (so far) have had the best managerial results of their careers here, tends to indicate it's the platform they are given

Again, do we want to win trophies = yes
Do we want to be flavor of the week = no, Wolves, Everton, Leicester (yes, even with this season), whoever, all have one off seasons where they challenge, maybe even win something but it is not a sustainable platform.

Manchester United is the biggest threat in this league, because this summer they could go hire a decent coach and spend 500M on players and still not be at risk financially, and they could do it again the following year until they get it right, thank fudge they don't have Levy or a board capable of sensible decisions.

Levy is trying to make us that incapable of being irrelevant because the revenue will always allow us to buy ourselves out of any interim challenge. It is a long game (19+ years, 10+ just for the stadium) and it's working, and that's what people admire, when last did you see a 5 year "project" actually play out? you are watching a 25 year project now.
 
Because you and @Hootnow miss the point

while I am glad for what he achieved and the feeling he created around the club, the fact that it is almost a linear improvement of results in 19 years means it's not "only" the manager, add in, BMJ, Harry, AVB and Poch (so far) have had the best managerial results of their careers here, tends to indicate it's the platform they are given


The rest of your post is fine but I'll just deal with this section because it's rather blinkered and very English Premier League is the bestest.

AVB: [/b]Spurs[/b] finished 5th and got 71 points.
Porto Won the league and Euro League double. Has since gone on to win the Russian PL and Cup. How his period at Spurs can be the considered the zenith of his career I have no idea. [emoji52]

Harry: Spurs two 4th placed finishes, one CL position.
Pompey FA Cup win and also West H highest ever finish in the top flight.

Again the single biggest achievement in Harry's career is winning the FA Cup with the small club that Pompey are and were.

BMJ: 5TH in the PL
3rd in the Bundesliga with Hamburg which I rate equally as an achievement tbh. This one is debatable and I'll accept either one being more impressive than the other but it's no means clear.

Poch is the only fair comment and we were by far the biggest club he had managed so it's a bit of a reductive comment.
 
The rest of your post is fine but I'll just deal with this section because it's rather blinkered and very English Premier League is the bestest.

AVB: [/b]Spurs[/b] finished 5th and got 71 points.
Porto Won the league and Euro League double. Has since gone on to win the Russian PL and Cup. How his period at Spurs can be the considered the zenith of his career I have no idea. [emoji52]

Harry: Spurs two 4th placed finishes, one CL position.
Pompey FA Cup win and also West H highest ever finish in the top flight.

Again the single biggest achievement in Harry's career is winning the FA Cup with the small club that Pompey are and were.

BMJ: 5TH in the PL
3rd in the Bundesliga with Hamburg which I rate equally as an achievement tbh. This one is debatable and I'll accept either one being more impressive than the other but it's no means clear.

Poch is the only fair comment and we were by far the biggest club he had managed so it's a bit of a reductive comment.
We’re by far the biggest club all the managers you mention managed
Also winning the Europa league IMO isn’t a big deal as teams in one horse leagues do tend to focus on it or some teams just focus on it full stop like dingdong Emery did when in Spain. He gave up on the league to win it as it’s an easy trophy to get to the latter stages in
 
My ban hammer is a sensitive soul, and you just triggered him/her/it/they

The south of France is beautiful and has the lovely restaurants and wine I know you like. But Monaco is a dump full of high rises.

I have stayed in Nice 5 times, 3 of them on cycling holidays. The is some beautiful scenery and towns down there. But Monaco is a dump.

Menton despite being in France and full of French people is up there as one of my favourite places in the world.
 
The south of France is beautiful and has the lovely restaurants and wine I know you like. But Monaco is a dump full of high rises.

I have stayed in Nice 5 times, 3 of them on cycling holidays. The is some beautiful scenery and towns down there. But Monaco is a dump.

Menton despite being in France and full of French people is up there as one of my favourite places in the world.
You mean civilisation?
 
We’re by far the biggest club all the managers you mention managed
Also winning the Europa league IMO isn’t a big deal as teams in one horse leagues do tend to focus on it or some teams just focus on it full stop like dingdong Emery did when in Spain. He gave up on the league to win it as it’s an easy trophy to get to the latter stages in

We’re by far the biggest club all the managers you mention managed
Also winning the Europa league IMO isn’t a big deal as teams in one horse leagues do tend to focus on it or some teams just focus on it full stop like dingdong Emery did when in Spain. He gave up on the league to win it as it’s an easy trophy to get to the latter stages in

Raziel's stance wasn't that we were the biggest clubs they had managed and if it was that would do what he said a disservice. Of course you should expect better results at bigger clubs. No he said they had achieved their beat results which is patently untrue in relation to AVB and Harry and arguable untrue with BMJ but I'll accept that one. Poch is the only coach that actually totally meets his critea and again we are by far the biggest club he had managed so his improves results are to be expected. I don't agree that we are bigger than Porto at all to be honest. When I was growing up in the 90s Porto were easily a bigger and more illustrious club, all that has happened is the PL has become more dominant but without actually winning the big prizes not every team can piggy back on that league game claim to be bigger than genuine European giants of the likes of Porto and Ajax. Porto have won more competitions than we have on both the domestic and international stage.

I don't even understand your Emery comment because if they were in a one team league then they wouldn't have finished no higher than 5th in the season's they won it. Whether you think they were able to focus more on the EL or not the fact remains they won it, gaining AVB *more* success then he had at Spurs. I can't imagine anyone but a Tottenham fan trying to claim AVBs 5th PL place as being worth more than an unbeaten League wining campaign, domestic cup and Europa League Cup treble.

Again I'm sorry but your arguements basically sounds like "the premier League is the bestest hardest league in the world" with you actively belittling the achievements gained outside of it.
 
Yet we’ve been taking one of the top four berths so all of those 6 can’t have been getting value for that money.
Or maybe they have been getting better value for money than we have?....

Here are the trophy hauls of the rest of the other members of the top six in the last decade:

Chelsea: 11 major trophies (3 x Premier League, 4 x FA Cup, 1 x League Cup, 1 x Champions League, 2 x Europa League)
Emirates Marketing Project: 10 major trophies (4 x Premier League, 2 x FA Cup, 4 x League Cup)
Man Utd: 6 major trophies (2 x Premier League, 1 x FA Cup, 2 x League Cup, 1 x Europa League)
Arsenal: 3 major trophies (3 x FA Cup)
Liverpool: 2 major trophies (1 x Champions League, 1 x League Cup)

What Pochettino did (taking a club with 6th biggest wage budget and what? 10th or 11th? highest net transfer spend to consistent top 4 finishes) is an obvious outlier in the premier league (and indeed any other big league in Europe). Throughout Europe there is a direct correlation between the clubs with the biggest wage bills and the clubs that win the trophies.

Hopefully now that our stadium build is out of the way we'll see our wage bill rise to the 'recommended' 55% level, which should help our manager (be that Jose or anyone else) to compete for the major trophies with the fellow big boys.
 
Or maybe they have been getting better value for money than we have?....

Here are the trophy hauls of the rest of the other members of the top six in the last decade:

Chelsea: 11 major trophies (3 x Premier League, 4 x FA Cup, 1 x League Cup, 1 x Champions League, 2 x Europa League)
Emirates Marketing Project: 10 major trophies (4 x Premier League, 2 x FA Cup, 4 x League Cup)
Man Utd: 6 major trophies (2 x Premier League, 1 x FA Cup, 2 x League Cup, 1 x Europa League)
Arsenal: 3 major trophies (3 x FA Cup)
Liverpool: 2 major trophies (1 x Champions League, 1 x League Cup)

What Pochettino did (taking a club with 6th biggest wage budget and what? 10th or 11th? highest net transfer spend to consistent top 4 finishes) is an obvious outlier in the premier league (and indeed any other big league in Europe). Throughout Europe there is a direct correlation between the clubs with the biggest wage bills and the clubs that win the trophies.

Hopefully now that our stadium build is out of the way we'll see our wage bill rise to the 'recommended' 55% level, which should help our manager (be that Jose or anyone else) to compete for the major trophies with the fellow big boys.

It's not as simple as that, you need to factor in how much they have spent, I'd say money spent per CL qualification would be the best measure of ROI.
 
Raziel's stance wasn't that we were the biggest clubs they had managed and if it was that would do what he said a disservice. Of course you should expect better results at bigger clubs. No he said they had achieved their beat results which is patently untrue in relation to AVB and Harry and arguable untrue with BMJ but I'll accept that one. Poch is the only coach that actually totally meets his critea and again we are by far the biggest club he had managed so his improves results are to be expected. I don't agree that we are bigger than Porto at all to be honest. When I was growing up in the 90s Porto were easily a bigger and more illustrious club, all that has happened is the PL has become more dominant but without actually winning the big prizes not every team can piggy back on that league game claim to be bigger than genuine European giants of the likes of Porto and Ajax. Porto have won more competitions than we have on both the domestic and international stage.

I don't even understand your Emery comment because if they were in a one team league then they wouldn't have finished no higher than 5th in the season's they won it. Whether you think they were able to focus more on the EL or not the fact remains they won it, gaining AVB *more* success then he had at Spurs. I can't imagine anyone but a Tottenham fan trying to claim AVBs 5th PL place as being worth more than an unbeaten League wining campaign, domestic cup and Europa League Cup treble.

Again I'm sorry but your arguements basically sounds like "the premier League is the bestest hardest league in the world" with you actively belittling the achievements gained outside of it.
We’re miles bigger than Porto
I’ve been there
I’ve met Portuguese people and they e en would agree
We’re a massive massive club now
Just because someone was big when someone was a kid doesn’t mean the are now.
Marseille were huge when I was a kid... but they fixed the league

And winning the premier league is much much bigger and tougher than any league. Until the last season or two any team could beat any team and that simply doesn’t happen anywhere near in the other leagues hence why the teams with the most money win

and the emery comment was how easy it is to focus on the Europa. You get teams who have won their league already or teams who solely focus on it like emery used too. It’s the league cup of Europe
 
We’re miles bigger than Porto
I’ve been there
I’ve met Portuguese people and they e en would agree
We’re a massive massive club now
Just because someone was big when someone was a kid doesn’t mean the are now.
Marseille were huge when I was a kid... but they fixed the league

And winning the premier league is much much bigger and tougher than any league. Until the last season or two any team could beat any team and that simply doesn’t happen anywhere near in the other leagues hence why the teams with the most money win

and the emery comment was how easy it is to focus on the Europa. You get teams who have won their league already or teams who solely focus on it like emery used too. It’s the league cup of Europe

I disagree with your Porto point. We are big because the league is watched around the world not because of actual achievements. We haven't won the PL nor the CL so for me we aren't bigger than teams that actually have and are limited by matters outside of their control like population size. I know we won't agree here on what constitutes a "big club" but wining big trophies HAS to be a big component, far more so than just finishing in the top 4.

Regarding the EL Sevilla won it when they knew they couldn't finish in the top 4, that does not suggest their league was easy. It suggests the opposite.

I don't know if I agree that winning the PL is harder than winning La Liga. It depends on the team and their circumstances. It's not easy to win La Liga for any team outside of Barcelona and Real Madrid and even for those two it isn't easy as they have fierce competition between themselves and for a time Athletico who of course also won it. We would be no closer to winning La Liga than we had been to winning the PL. So is the PL really harder? Leicester have won it, Liverpool are about to. If the breadth of winner suggests difficulty than surely the Bundesliga was tougher in 00s when the range of winners was bigger than the PL and La Liga or does it only apply when it happens in the PL?

.
 
It's not as simple as that, you need to factor in how much they have spent, I'd say money spent per CL qualification would be the best measure of ROI.
This.

Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and ManUre have spent twice as much on wages alone over the past 9 seasons whilst Dippers and Goons have both spent about half a £billion more than us. If this continues once new stadium revenue streams are flowing in then I might start to question Levy’s leadership but feels like we’ve been on an upward trajectory and only missed out due to money doped clubs jumping the queue.

Emirates Marketing Project £1,843million
ManUre £1,838million
Chelsea £1,785million
ARSEnal £1,508million
Dippers £,495million
Tottenham £920million

upload_2020-2-11_18-10-58.jpeg
 
It's not as simple as that, you need to factor in how much they have spent, I'd say money spent per CL qualification would be the best measure of ROI.
Why? Will we go down in history for qualifying for the Champions League for 4 years? Trophies are what it is that are counted at the end of the day.

We happened to have an excellent manager who defied the odds for four years in a row and overachieved in relation to our wage bill and transfer expenditure. We won't always be lucky enough to have a manager that can do this.

The likelihood is that if we continue to operate the 6th biggest budget then it's far more likely than unlikely that we'll fail to finish in the top 4 and also fail to win trophies.

Go and ask the fans of those 5 clubs I listed.... "Would you rather have won those trophies or won fcuk all but been able to boast that you had the best ROI in terms of wage bill to top 4 finishes ratio?"
 
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This.

Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and ManUre have spent twice as much on wages alone over the past 9 seasons whilst Dippers and Goons have both spent about half a £billion more than us. If this continues once new stadium revenue streams are flowing in then I might start to question Levy’s leadership but feels like we’ve been on an upward trajectory and only missed out due to money doped clubs jumping the queue.

Emirates Marketing Project £1,843million
ManUre £1,838million
Chelsea £1,785million
ARSEnal £1,508million
Dippers £,495million
Tottenham £920million

View attachment 8199
This is quite interesting. Between 2014 and 2018 it seems that our wages grew by only £50 million. How much did our turnover grow in that same 4 year period?

Interesting that every club in that list has actually increased their wage bill gap to us since 2014. It is absolutely remarkable that Poch was able to beat the odds like that. Let's hope that Mourinho is also able to do the same.
 
This is quite interesting. Between 2014 and 2018 it seems that our wages grew by only £50 million. How much did our turnover grow in that same 4 year period?

Interesting that every club in that list has actually increased their wage bill gap to us since 2014. It is absolutely remarkable that Poch was able to beat the odds like that. Let's hope that Mourinho is also able to do the same.

That ratio should head back up now that new stadium is finally up and running.

upload_2020-2-11_18-57-37.jpeg

Plus we should no longer be bottom of the Sky Six for revenue when next annual figures are announced.

upload_2020-2-11_18-56-10.jpeg
 
Why? Will we go down in history for qualifying for the Champions League for 4 years? Trophies are what it is that are counted at the end of the day.

We happened to have an excellent manager who defied the odds for four years in a row and overachieved in relation to our wage bill and transfer expenditure. We won't always be lucky enough to have a manager that can do this.

The likelihood is that if we continue to operate the 6th biggest budget then it's far more likely than unlikely that we'll fail to finish in the top 4 and also fail to win trophies.

Go and ask the fans of those 5 clubs I listed.... "Would you rather have won those trophies or won fcuk all but been able to boast that you had the best ROI in terms of wage bill to top 4 finishes ratio?"

Its professional sport, every single metric goes down in history.

The discussion was on value for money pertaining to value of transfer fees.
 
This.

Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and ManUre have spent twice as much on wages alone over the past 9 seasons whilst Dippers and Goons have both spent about half a £billion more than us. If this continues once new stadium revenue streams are flowing in then I might start to question Levy’s leadership but feels like we’ve been on an upward trajectory and only missed out due to money doped clubs jumping the queue.

Emirates Marketing Project £1,843million
ManUre £1,838million
Chelsea £1,785million
ARSEnal £1,508million
Dippers £,495million
Tottenham £920million

View attachment 8199

Oh and looking at player amortisation (as a proxy for transfer spending) also highlights how we’re playing catch-up with rest of Sky Six... they’ve literally spent £billions more than us!

722B6AB4-C052-42C6-9A4C-35C2C1614883.jpeg

Emirates Marketing Project: £981million (+£1,843million in wages = £2,824million)
Chavski: £936million (+£1,785million in wages = £2,721million)
ManUre: £789million (+£1,838million in wages = £2,627million)
Dippers: £486million (+£1,495million in wages = £1,981million)
ARSEnal: £465million (+£1,508million in wages = £1,973million)
Tottenham: £375million (+£920million in wages = £1,295million)

D8A63277-A45B-4499-AA15-E1F0F342114C.jpeg
 
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