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Could someone explain German Economics?

I think someone mentioned the term "Social Capitalism" in one of the other threads when referring to the German economic model. Can anyone expand on this please, and explain why the German economy doesn't seem to fluctuate through boom and bust cycles as much as other countries' do?

Just curious...
 
No minimum wage = less unemployment and ability for German manufacturing to compete globally
 
Well no, I actually have very little knowledge of the German economy. I have no doubt it helps keep their unemployment figure low though.
 
They dont have a 'dole culture', you are seen in a bad light if you are unemployed and have far better government systems for creating employment.
 
They also don't tend to own houses, majority of people rent as housing prices have remained pretty static for the last 25 years.

There probably isn't one thing you can nail but their culture is totally different to ours i.e. hardworking.

Plus don't forget the deutschmark was a very strong currency, probably way stronger than the euro so when they switched it made their exports far more competitive.
 
Pluss they had there industry rebuilt for free after the war.. Where we were left crippled with debt.
 
My dad worked for a multinational and had nothing but praise for his German colleagues. Hardworking, organised, all the classic stereotypes.

On the flip side he hates how the French do business.
 
They dont have a 'dole culture', you are seen in a bad light if you are unemployed and have far better government systems for creating employment.

When people talk about the government reforms placing a stigma on benefit recipients, I always wonder why it's talked about as being a bad thing. If you're not working and living off benefits I think there should be a stigma attached, I know I'd be embarrassed to be living that life.
 
- Hardworking
- Great workmanship e.g Mercs, BMWs etc.
- No Andy Capps in society

Plus:
- Good beer drinkers
- Fairly good girls
 
Favours state intervention on the regulatory side (rigorous anti-trust codes, market power restriction laws, et al) and implements a social policy that ensures pension insurance, unemployment subsidies and universal healthcare provided by a combination of state subsidies and employer/employee contributions. Also tries to balance income growth to prevent undue skewing towards one segment of society. and provides social housing and education. Also encourages strong labor unions (within reason) and collective bargaining.

However, also encourages free trade, free enterprise, free competition and the freedom to set prices (within reason). Disavows outright socialism and outright free market capitalism in favour of a combination of what Germany sees as the best elements of the two.

Basically, they've managed to set up something approaching an ideal system of capitalism: where regulatory measures prevent unfair competition,where the state provides a comprehensive social net for its citizens,and where the state protects the rights of labor unions, but equally where strong private industries and free trade are encouraged. It helps that the German labor unions understood early on that the government was giving them a good deal, and correspondingly reciprocated by not harbouring delusions of seizing political power and focused instead on using government support to ensure a fair deal for their constituents. It also helps that in Germany you don't see the outright mistrust and fear of corporations and industrial conglomerates, as you do in the UK: mainly because again, German voters trust their government to ensure corporations are kept on a tight leash, and corporations correspondingly understand that the German government and the german labor unions have been accomodating and reciprocate in kind.

None of this would have been possible without the financially massive Marshall plan subsidizing their regrowth after WWII (while we sent John Maynard Keynes to Washington to beg for spare change, essentially), and whether this arrangement can survive as more heavy and technologically-intensive industries are popping up in India and China (with their concurrent lower wages and thus higher 'competitiveness') is still open to question.

Nevertheless, they've done admirably well for themselves, and it is singularly ironic that the country that devastated Europe from 1939 to 1945 is now resuming its domination of the continent via more peaceful, economic means.
 
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Germany have fudged themselves with the EU. It's noble to help those that can't help themselves, but helping those that won't help themselves was just stupid and it's just a matter of time before the EU crumbles. The only way it won't is if they force the weaker members out and reorganise the whole thing.
 
Germany have fudged themselves with the EU. It's noble to help those that can't help themselves, but helping those that won't help themselves was just stupid and it's just a matter of time before the EU crumbles. The only way it won't is if they force the weaker members out and reorganise the whole thing.

There's nothing noble about it. German influence across Europe rises every time a bailout is approved, and the last thing Germany wants or needs is breakaway countries forming cheap currencies and becoming export markets on its doorstep.

Though German voters themselves are getting increasingly disillusioned by having to foot the bill for what they see as failed economies that hate them (as evidenced by the widespread 'Fourth Reich' comparisons in local newspapers every time Germany imposes austerity measures on the countries they give bailouts to). So it's shaping up to be a powder keg situation.
 
There's nothing noble about it. German influence across Europe rises every time a bailout is approved, and the last thing Germany wants or needs is breakaway countries forming cheap currencies and becoming export markets on its doorstep.

Though German voters themselves are getting increasingly disillusioned by having to foot the bill for what they see as failed economies that hate them (as evidenced by the widespread 'Fourth Reich' comparisons in local newspapers every time Germany imposes austerity measures on the countries they give bailouts to). So it's shaping up to be a powder keg situation.

I deal with Germany all the time, three of my biggest customers are German. Believe me it is fudged and the people there are really worried. The people are being lead into a direction they don't want to go and the German wealthy are planning exit strategies.
 
I deal with Germany all the time, three of my biggest customers are German. Believe me it is fudged and the people there are really worried. The people are being lead into a direction they don't want to go and the German wealthy are planning exit strategies.

I agree with you, don't get me wrong. But from a political angle, if Germany wants to secure itself as the dominant leader of the Euro bloc of countries (Whatever that bloc may be called: EC, EU or something else), it must continue bailing out these countries and strengthening its grip on the financial controls of Europe as a whole.

It is international power politics we're seeing here. I fully agree that the ordinary (or wealthy) German is getting increasingly discontented with the situation, but then international politics is always something that voters want to see done only when domestic issues are resolved, and so spending money on these sorts of things is consistently unpopular across most democratic states. For what it's worth, I think Germany has more to gain than lose by continuing to encourage EU reliance on it for everything from leadership to financial support. Whether the German economy can sustain that push remains to be seen.
 
Thanks for the information, fellas. Very informative. Here's the obvious question...

Why on earth are we not modeling our economies after the Germans' system?!!

Take the best of opposite arguments to form a pragmatic system that benefits the majority the most, rather than socio-economic systems that favour a minority at the expense of the many and not maximising the total potential?... Seems kinda obvious to me....:-k
 
Thanks for the information, fellas. Very informative. Here's the obvious question...

Why on earth are we not modeling our economies after the Germans' system?!!

Take the best of opposite arguments to form a pragmatic system that benefits the majority the most, rather than socio-economic systems that favour a minority at the expense of the many and not maximising the total potential?... Seems kinda obvious to me....:-k

Too late to do so, for a majority of countries. Take us, for example. To implement the German system, we'll firstly need to strengthen our labor unions again. Can you imagine companies agreeing to give up some of their excessive labor powers (zero hours contracts et al) without threatening to move abroad? Equally, can you imagine the unions agreeing to meet companies half-way (i.e, the German way) after experiencing the trauma Thatcher inflicted on them? They'd probably be even more determined to seize political power to prevent anything of the kind occurring ever again, which means more Scargills.

Secondly, Germany has an abundance of heavy industries that still make up something like 27-30 percent of its economy. Ours make up around 20 percent, and that percentage has been falling for a fair few years now as we become ever more service-oriented. A lot of our unemployment issues stem from the fact that an economy predominantly based around one sector cannot employ as many people as a diversified economy, due to simple education and specialization issues. Our dependence on the services sector precludes a Germany-style attempt to ensure maximum employment and subsequently business-labor equality.

Thirdly, Germany's regulatory system is robust mainly due to the accountability between government and the public. West Germany, and then united Germany, has had it ingrained into them that the social market economy is the best system for the nation. When combined with Germany's historically stable economy, this means the public don't want to listen to alternatives (i.e unshackling of companies, reduction of social spending, etcetera) because they have no need for them at present. In the UK, our economy has undergone a seismic shift from Thatcher onwards, and a generation of people made rich through Thatcher's deregulation and privatization programs now support further deregulation, whereas the people whose lives were destroyed by deregulation support stricter regulations. There's a divide that isn't universally present in Germany, which precludes regulation efforts because the richer people support deregulation, thus giving them greater clout with the politicians and leading to this feeling that politicians don't represent the majority of the UK's society. That accountability is gone.

It's easy to implement Germany's economic framework when the nation is united, and when it is just starting out on its economic road (i.e Germany post WWII). It is infinitely harder to do so once divides have set into society, and no one (companies, unions, the government, the people, etcetera) trusts each other any more. Because there is no trust, there is no willingness to compromise, which is vital when you want to create the sort of system Germany has. How do you regain that trust? Well, not holding public tossfests for one of the most divisive politicians in British history would be a start. Corporations and rich folks paying taxes would be another. Companies and unions sitting down and negotiating an end to labor exploitation (and, equally, union political ambitions) would be another.

But to do this, we need a united society, which is not the case. Is it too late to unify it? That's the question. It's one of the reasons I deeply dislike Thatcher: she helped create a divided society where today nothing is being achieved but the concentration of wealth in the hands of an ever decreasing minority.
 
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