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Climate Change

scaramanga said:
Seeing as you're more in the know about this stuff than most here, has anyone calculated the demand on electricity once a significant portion of the UK is driving EVs? Is it safe to assume there's a plan to be producing at that level rather than a straight line from where we are?
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No clue on that.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Biden has had a massive affect. Just by being president elect. The Cummings thing too - an orchestrated changing of the guard from Trumpism, with the government moving towards whatever people image Bidenism is.

What a relief.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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It does feel to me that the tide has turned. Biden has promised to embed climate policy in every department of the US government and not box it off in the EPA or whatever. He gets that it is not an issue to be solved but an era we are in. It would be good if the dems could flip those last two Senate seats. It would make progress far easier but those that have analysed these things predict he can do the vast majority of his plan via EOs. I'm feeling positive.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Biden has had a massive affect. Just by being president elect. The Cummings thing too - an orchestrated changing of the guard from Trumpism, with the government moving towards whatever people image Bidenism is.

What a relief.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Boris has to try and reinvent himself, as if Biden prevails,( as appears likely), Starmer will follow.

Boris has until May 2024, so enough time to paint over the bluster and travesty of Covid and Brexit. There are plenty with short memories.
 
scaramanga said:
Seeing as you're more in the know about this stuff than most here, has anyone calculated the demand on electricity once a significant portion of the UK is driving EVs? Is it safe to assume there's a plan to be producing at that level rather than a straight line from where we are?
Click to expand...

A slightly different point, but I think hybrid cars may be the way forward short term. Finding free chargers and waiting for half an hour isn't something folks will want to deal with. Batteries are also heavy, costly and not particularly environmental to manufacture or decommission.

Still more to come either from new battery tech, or hydrogen or something else. In the interim, I can see hybrid EVs with an efficient petrol engine giving people 100mpg+, as all short journies would be on electric, but they'd have the flexibility when they need to travel further.
 
Rorschach said:
It does feel to me that the tide has turned. Biden has promised to embed climate policy in every department of the US government and not box it off in the EPA or whatever. He gets that it is not an issue to be solved but an era we are in. It would be good if the dems could flip those last two Senate seats. It would make progress far easier but those that have analysed these things predict he can do the vast majority of his plan via EOs. I'm feeling positive.
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You did call it. I didn't think Trump was such a big deal - all hot air but not that different to the rest of them. But in terms of a global agenda, international ethics and pulling in the same direction towards a cleaner planet, the change is massive. The soft message it sends out to the UK - who need a trade deal with the US to justify brexit, to China etc. is huge.

Innovation is something humans can't stop doing. With the right governmental guidance/incentives, we should be able to be carbon neutral within what 20 years?
 
Rorschach said:
It does feel to me that the tide has turned. Biden has promised to embed climate policy in every department of the US government and not box it off in the EPA or whatever. He gets that it is not an issue to be solved but an era we are in. It would be good if the dems could flip those last two Senate seats. It would make progress far easier but those that have analysed these things predict he can do the vast majority of his plan via EOs. I'm feeling positive.
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What he says in 4 years when industries are detailing the job losses those plans will cause and he's running for re-election is likely to show a truer picture of where he stands.
 
SpurMeUp said:
A slightly different point, but I think hybrid cars may be the way forward short term. Finding free chargers and waiting for half an hour isn't something folks will want to deal with. Batteries are also heavy, costly and not particularly environmental to manufacture or decommission.

Still more to come either from new battery tech, or hydrogen or something else. In the interim, I can see hybrid EVs with an efficient petrol engine giving people 100mpg+, as all short journies would be on electric, but they'd have the flexibility when they need to travel further.
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How much difference do hybrids really make?

I assume everyone will be plugged in overnight, so the simultaneous load required will be similar - unless people can be convinced to charge in turn (unlikely).

They have enough extra weight to make them handle as poorly as an EV, but not enough extra power (outside of McLaren and similar) to be worth losing that handling.

For me, a hybrid is the worst of both worlds.
 
scaramanga said:
How much difference do hybrids really make?

I assume everyone will be plugged in overnight, so the simultaneous load required will be similar - unless people can be convinced to charge in turn (unlikely).

They have enough extra weight to make them handle as poorly as an EV, but not enough extra power (outside of McLaren and similar) to be worth losing that handling.

For me, a hybrid is the worst of both worlds.
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1. Hybrids give massive CO2 savings - because most journeys are local. 90% of day to day car travel can use electric power.

2. If you can’t charge for whatever reason, you can still drive - in a hybrid. That takes away the core disadvantage of pure EVs. With smaller batteries in hybrids the weight disadvantage isn’t as bad either.

3. As you say the fastest cars made now are hybrids. Using software and small turbo engines we can have the best of both worlds.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
1. Hybrids give massive CO2 savings - because most journeys are local. 90% of day to day car travel can use electric power.

2. If you can’t charge for whatever reason, you can still drive - in a hybrid. That takes away the core disadvantage of pure EVs. With smaller batteries in hybrids the weight disadvantage isn’t as bad either.

3. As you say the fastest cars made now are hybrids. Using software and small turbo engines we can have the best of both worlds.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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  1. They don't help the grid concurrency problem though. Everyone will get home and plug in at once - we barely have capacity for everyone to make a cup of tea at the same time.
  2. Given the damage done to braking performance and added weight of both batteries and motors, I think it's bold to suggest there's no damage to handling.
  3. You can't use technology from a few elite vehicles as a yardstick for other cars. Those that have successfully used electric power to add to traditional power have been redesigned from scratch to be ultra light throughout. They're also rubbish hybrids - they're just extra powerful real cars.
 
scaramanga said:
  1. They don't help the grid concurrency problem though. Everyone will get home and plug in at once - we barely have capacity for everyone to make a cup of tea at the same time.
  2. Given the damage done to braking performance and added weight of both batteries and motors, I think it's bold to suggest there's no damage to handling.
  3. You can't use technology from a few elite vehicles as a yardstick for other cars. Those that have successfully used electric power to add to traditional power have been redesigned from scratch to be ultra light throughout. They're also rubbish hybrids - they're just extra powerful real cars.
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As I said, if you can't charge for whatever reason - grid issues, charger station problems, driving in remote areas - you are still okay in a hybrid! You're covered.

Re. handling - the sportiest of sports cars have both batteries and an engine. Of course, it adds weight over just an engine, but as McClaren, and Porsche have shown it does not hold back performance.

Elite tech often becomes mainstream. That's not to say people will be driving supercars. Just that with clever software and two energy sources you can have fast cars that will save CO2. Just seems the most natural evolution now. Pure EVs have too many limitations as things stand and ICEs are so advanced and efficient now with the use of turbos, I can see them 'subsidising' the evolving clean technologies.
 
SpurMeUp said:
A slightly different point, but I think hybrid cars may be the way forward short term. Finding free chargers and waiting for half an hour isn't something folks will want to deal with. Batteries are also heavy, costly and not particularly environmental to manufacture or decommission.

Still more to come either from new battery tech, or hydrogen or something else. In the interim, I can see hybrid EVs with an efficient petrol engine giving people 100mpg+, as all short journies would be on electric, but they'd have the flexibility when they need to travel further.
Click to expand...

scaramanga said:
How much difference do hybrids really make?

I assume everyone will be plugged in overnight, so the simultaneous load required will be similar - unless people can be convinced to charge in turn (unlikely).

They have enough extra weight to make them handle as poorly as an EV, but not enough extra power (outside of McLaren and similar) to be worth losing that handling.

For me, a hybrid is the worst of both worlds.
Click to expand...

Moving fully away from the combustion engine and the ridiculous reliance on a (dirty) finite resource is a logical progression

Also, In the time frame they are talking (2030-2040), you need to be looking at ownership patterns. I believe vehicle ownership will look very different with the cars per household looking much reduced. People will work from home more, shopping is online and delivered. Driverless cars in some kind of Uber type network will exist, pooling many car journeys, making private ownership redundant or at least not a necessity. Many people genuinely hate driving and bare minimum think it's a waste of time (it is).

This will naturally feed into solving some of the issues perceived when applied to today's ownership profile, and knock on green benefits are not hard to imagine either.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Moving fully away from the combustion engine and the ridiculous reliance on a (dirty) finite resource is a logical progression

Also, In the time frame they are talking (2030-2040), you need to be looking at ownership patterns. I believe vehicle ownership will look very different with the cars per household looking much reduced. People will work from home more, shopping is online and delivered. Driverless cars in some kind of Uber type network will exist, pooling many car journeys, making private ownership redundant or at least not a necessity. Many people genuinely hate driving and bare minimum think it's a waste of time (it is).

This will naturally feed into solving some of the issues perceived when applied to today's ownership profile, and knock on green benefits are not hard to imagine either.
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Autonomy is big thing for a lot of people and synonymous with owning a car. Want to depart at 4am - you can. From wherever you may be.

Right now people can use various car-sharing schemes. Where I live you can hire a Zip car for an hour for £10. There are also ride-sharing schemes. But it doesn't suit the way most people like to live. People love freedom and independence. I can't see us developing a collective sharing ethos in 10 years.

Personally I quite like a sharing ethos and the more sociable life it can bring. I did research in Cuba where everyone is poor, and they rely on social links far more and are they are far more sociable - and nourished socially - than we are. But people won't go backwards. They like independence and freedom. The technology has to offer this or it won't work imo.
 
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