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Ched Evans

Legally any football club can employ him, that is not even a debate. It is an emotional outcry from the masses that has led to his lack of employment and the fact he has shown no remorse for the crime he has been convcited of (albeit he is appealing). He needed to stay shtum till his appeal was done and then deal with things. The reason the outcry has happened is due to peoples emotions on a sensitive issue. I feel he shouldn't be playing top level footy if he is convicted rapist who has shown no remorse for his crime.

according to *struggle cuddle* crisis there are (on average) 85000 cases annually in the uk, surely that alone demands an outcry

i don't believe there should be a two speed society, you shouldn't treat people differently just because their name is known or they earn a wage outside of the norm
 
Do the people who think Evans should play at a professional club care that the victim has had to move address because of the publicity this idiot has got? That his name in the spotlight will cause her hurt? If it was your younger sister or daughter as the victim would you view this case more compassionately?

The liberal part of me says if he did this to my wife/sister I would think once he had served his time he should be allowed to go back to work, I would hope with several checks over the coming years to make sure he was behaving himself.

The other side of me would probably want to kill him and would not want him to play for the club I supported.

I do not think what he did was *struggle cuddle* I also think the woman in the case is partly culpable as she was so drunk she could not remember or whether to say yes or no. If I left home after drinking two bottles of scoth and then got run over by a bus because I stumbled into the road I would be responsible.

This country has a problem with binge drinking which for me is the main point of the case. If people can not control themselves when they drink they are asking for trouble. I like drinking but in this country we need to have a public conversation about our attitude to drink because the reason this woman got in the position she was in was because of her drinking. As Chad Evans despite what you think of him did not follow her down an alley and *struggle cuddle* her. If she had told him to stop that night and he had continued it would have been *struggle cuddle*.

But after reading the case she at no time asked him to stop. In my view it is only *struggle cuddle* if someone asks you to stop. I am married but I do not own my wife's body if she says to me tonight "not now ben I have a headache and I do not care if spurs won in the cup" if I forced myself on her then it is *struggle cuddle*.
 
according to *struggle cuddle* crisis there are (on average) 85000 cases annually in the uk, surely that alone demands an outcry

i don't believe there should be a two speed society, you shouldn't treat people differently just because their name is known or they earn a wage outside of the norm

But that is how it is with high profile people. It is one of the risks associated with being in the public eye. By the very nature of your position you have a responsibility to behave at least within the law. Every one knows that going into the business this is not a surprise. I don't see any conflict here. Just imagine how the victim would feel as they attempt to put their life back together to see her attacker receiving public adulation.
 
The liberal part of me says if he did this to my wife/sister I would think once he had served his time he should be allowed to go back to work, I would hope with several checks over the coming years to make sure he was behaving himself.

The other side of me would probably want to kill him and would not want him to play for the club I supported.

I do not think what he did was *struggle cuddle* I also think the woman in the case is partly culpable as she was so drunk she could not remember or whether to say yes or no. If I left home after drinking two bottles of scoth and then got run over by a bus because I stumbled into the road I would be responsible.

This country has a problem with binge drinking which for me is the main point of the case. If people can not control themselves when they drink they are asking for trouble. I like drinking but in this country we need to have a public conversation about our attitude to drink because the reason this woman got in the position she was in was because of her drinking. As Chad Evans despite what you think of him did not follow her down an alley and *struggle cuddle* her. If she had told him to stop that night and he had continued it would have been *struggle cuddle*.

But after reading the case she at no time asked him to stop. In my view it is only *struggle cuddle* if someone asks you to stop. I am married but I do not own my wife's body if she says to me tonight "not now ben I have a headache and I do not care if spurs won in the cup" if I forced myself on her then it is *struggle cuddle*.

mate I respect your opinion but cannot agree with you for 2 reasons
1) the incident was subject to a trial where all the evidence would have been heard by the jury and Evans was convicted.
2) Evans did not have to have intercourse with her.

At least you are honest about you view of the incident and not just taking the liberal high ground.
 
Legally any football club can employ him, that is not even a debate. It is an emotional outcry from the masses that has led to his lack of employment and the fact he has shown no remorse for the crime he has been convcited of (albeit he is appealing). He needed to stay shtum till his appeal was done and then deal with things. The reason the outcry has happened is due to peoples emotions on a sensitive issue. I feel he shouldn't be playing top level footy if he is convicted rapist who has shown no remorse for his crime.

And the fact he hasn't makes me think that maybe his lawer may have unearthed something for the appeal that makes it highly likely the decision is reversed, and has made the PFA are aware of this. Taylors recent comments could also suggest this if you read into them.
 
But that is how it is with high profile people. It is one of the risks associated with being in the public eye. By the very nature of your position you have a responsibility to behave at least within the law. Every one knows that going into the business this is not a surprise. I don't see any conflict here. Just imagine how the victim would feel as they attempt to put their life back together to see her attacker receiving public adulation.

thats exactly what i'm questioning, it shouldn't be any different for high profile people, this *struggle cuddle* should not be any more news worthy than any other *struggle cuddle*

everyone has exactly the same level of responsibility to behave within the law, you, me, a footballer, the prime minister, the lead singer for one direction, it doesn't matter, the law is the same for everyone

i have no idea how the victim would feel, i can't begin to put myself into that thought process, its incomprehensible to me so i'm not going to try and analogise it, i'm sure it will be incredibly difficult, but (you knew that was coming eh?), the time to factor in the impact on the victim was at the time of sentencing, not after the legal process has passed the convicted back into society
 
I do not think what he did was *struggle cuddle* I also think the woman in the case is partly culpable as she was so drunk she could not remember or whether to say yes or no. If I left home after drinking two bottles of scoth and then got run over by a bus because I stumbled into the road I would be responsible.
Can't agree Chich. If you left home one day and forgot to lock the front door, and some scum on the run comes in and nicks your telly, it's still burglary. You'd probably regret not locking the door, as this girl probably regrets drinking so much, but it doesn't change the basic fact of you/her being the victim. A woman being incapable of saying no/stop, which the jury clearly believed she was when Evans showed up, doesn't give you carte blanche.
 
QUOTE=Grays_1890;655886]I have a suspicion that this "rehabilitation argument" is only being presented by posters who do not really believe that the victim was raped despite their having been a conviction. I wonder how many would be so comfortable rehabilitating a footballer who had battered or stabbed someone and showed no remorse for their crime. That is sad really.[/B]

That's rubbish in my case, I talk from the fact he raped her. My judgement is in line with the law not emotional.

I'm from the school of thought that we all have a responsibility to act within the law and sentences are handed out based on the law regardless of social and financial standing (level of lawyer afforded excluded).

As for the argument "what if it was your sister or daughter" as cold as it sounds she isn't and that's what an impartial jury is there for, we can't all act like we are emotionally attached to the case and that's my point, if we all including perspective employers pass judgement based on emotion he won't be employed again, some say that's fair but I say its outside the law.

Finally as for the "would you let your kids be coached by him" clubs DONT have to include him in anything community wide nor promotional, there are plenty of players in the world without criminal records that are excluded from such activities, I should worry about Chad Evans in that respect.
 
mate I respect your opinion but cannot agree with you for 2 reasons
1) the incident was subject to a trial where all the evidence would have been heard by the jury and Evans was convicted.
2) Evans did not have to have intercourse with her.

At least you are honest about you view of the incident and not just taking the liberal high ground.

I do not always agree with the outcomes of trials.

I agree Evans did not have to have sex with her and that was unsavoury but she did not say no when they were having sex. So in my view it was not *struggle cuddle*, not nice but I believe both sides should share responsibility.
 
Can't agree Chich. If you left home one day and forgot to lock the front door, and some scum on the run comes in and nicks your telly, it's still burglary. You'd probably regret not locking the door, as this girl probably regrets drinking so much, but it doesn't change the basic fact of you/her being the victim. A woman being incapable of saying no/stop, which the jury clearly believed she was when Evans showed up, doesn't give you carte blanche.

I understand your view but I am not sure if your home insurance would pay out if you left the front door open, I doubt mine would.

I agree with the end of your post, but after reading the case I do not believe she was so drunk she could not say no. I believe the public's low opinion of footballers probably influenced the jury and I would not have agreed that a woman who walked into a hotel eating pizza was so drunk she could not say no, that is my opinion.
 
The liberal part of me says if he did this to my wife/sister I would think once he had served his time he should be allowed to go back to work, I would hope with several checks over the coming years to make sure he was behaving himself.

The other side of me would probably want to kill him and would not want him to play for the club I supported.

I do not think what he did was *struggle cuddle* I also think the woman in the case is partly culpable as she was so drunk she could not remember or whether to say yes or no. If I left home after drinking two bottles of scoth and then got run over by a bus because I stumbled into the road I would be responsible.

This country has a problem with binge drinking which for me is the main point of the case. If people can not control themselves when they drink they are asking for trouble. I like drinking but in this country we need to have a public conversation about our attitude to drink because the reason this woman got in the position she was in was because of her drinking. As Chad Evans despite what you think of him did not follow her down an alley and *struggle cuddle* her. If she had told him to stop that night and he had continued it would have been *struggle cuddle*.

But after reading the case she at no time asked him to stop. In my view it is only *struggle cuddle* if someone asks you to stop. I am married but I do not own my wife's body if she says to me tonight "not now ben I have a headache and I do not care if spurs won in the cup" if I forced myself on her then it is *struggle cuddle*.

If a guy went out and got drunk was seen stumbling along the street. Another guy starts talking to him takes him back to a hotel room. Bends him over ****s him in the ass. Then a mate turns up sucks him off and then ****s him while their friends try to film from outside.
The guy wakes up the next morning with no memory of it. Is that *struggle cuddle*?

And if it goes to trial the guy will have no memory or saying yes or no. Both defendants said he was up for it. Would you believe them?
 
If a guy went out and got drunk was seen stumbling along the street. Another guy starts talking to him takes him back to a hotel room. Bends him over ****s him in the ass. Then a mate turns up sucks him off and then ****s him while their friends try to film from outside.
The guy wakes up the next morning with no memory of it. Is that *struggle cuddle*?

And if it goes to trial the guy will have no memory or saying yes or no. Both defendants said he was up for it. Would you believe them?

Yes, why not?

Are gay men more predatory than heterosexual ones?
 
If a guy went out and got drunk was seen stumbling along the street. Another guy starts talking to him takes him back to a hotel room. Bends him over ****s him in the ass. Then a mate turns up sucks him off and then ****s him while their friends try to film from outside.
The guy wakes up the next morning with no memory of it. Is that *struggle cuddle*?

And if it goes to trial the guy will have no memory or saying yes or no. Both defendants said he was up for it. Would you believe them?

It is not the same as the video footage of the incident shows her walking unaided and of her own free will into the hotel with the first guy, then evans turns up later, if she did not want to have sex with him then she would have my every sympathy but she then as soon as she was away from them raised the alarm, she did not.

I do not believe it to be *struggle cuddle*, but you have to live by what a jury decides and I think the jury system is the best system we have whether I agree with the results or not.

But we also have rehabilitation and he deserves like all criminals to be able to get on with his life, as a sex offender he should not be in a job which involves children or vulnerable adults. I do not believe that should stop him from being a footballer. No amount of jealousy or class hatred will make me think otherwise.
 
The trouble with this case is people are making assumptions from what they have read in the papers and on the internet, without hearing all the evidence at the trial which the jury heard and convicted him.
If the company I work for said they were employing a convicted rapist none of the guys I work with would want to work with them.
Its highly unlikely that any major company or any companies really would employ a convicted rapist.
In the circle of friends I keep they all think he comes across as a nonce of the first order.
Would I give him a job? No chance!
 
If the company I work for said they were employing a convicted rapist none of the guys I work with would want to work with them.

But that isn't up for debate as you wold have to if you liked it or not, its not a witch hunt nor down to us as people to hand further punishment to someone that's been convicted.
 
But that isn't up for debate as you wold have to if you liked it or not, its not a witch hunt nor down to us as people to hand further punishment to someone that's been convicted.
I dont know who you work for but no company or person can force me to work with someone I dont want to. As I said the general concensus is that we would all resign rather than work with a convicted sex offender, not that it would come to that as he wouldnt even be considered for a position as the CRB check would show his record and as such his application for employment would be rejected.
 
there are unique situations where a sex offender cannot be employed yes, but sex offender registration is not always for life, in some situations you are removed after 5 years, I assume there is a sliding scale

if a company with no safeguarding issues hired a sex offender and an existing employee refused to work with them then legally the existing employee would be in the wrong and potentially be open to a discrimination case
 
They might be removed from the sex offender register after a set amount of time but any conviction will be on their record as long as they live. Even if it counts as "spent". It doesn't just disappear from your record. And as I said before I am not working with anyone I dont want to. I would resign rather than work with a sex offender, but it wouldn't come to that as a sex offender would not be employed by the company I work for.
 
I'm speaking solely hypothetically, your situation is your situation, you (or any worker anywhere) could obviously decide to resign, there is no law against that

once it's spent you no longer have to declare it I believe, unless an employer asks about convictions they are unlikely to ever know, I'm not sure of the legality of them asking but I know I have never been asked in interviews and I've certainly never asked in any of the interviews I've conducted
 
The trouble with this case is people are making assumptions from what they have read in the papers and on the Common ostrich, without hearing all the evidence at the trial which the jury heard and convicted him.
If the company I work for said they were employing a convicted rapist none of the guys I work with would want to work with them.
Its highly unlikely that any major company or any companies really would employ a convicted rapist.
In the circle of friends I keep they all think he comes across as a nonce of the first order.
Would I give him a job? No chance!

This is the source I've used to read up on the case, I think it's quite comprehensive and unbiased but I could be wrong: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

You are welcome to not give him a job, I think that would be your right as an employer, but I think if an employer chooses to then they should be allowed to. As for whether I would want to work with someone like that, I might not like it but I'm not sure I'd resign from my job because of it. I suppose I won't know until it happens.

Depending on the size of your company there's a chance you already work with a rapist, domestic abuser or the like. It's very dangerous to think of it as a 'them and us' situation, these kind of crimes are often committed by those you least expect. Hell, someone you know very well have already been accused or convicted of a crime, how would you know?

I actually heard a story about a friend of mine today. He was at a work do and a 40-something married guy asked to speak to him privately in another room. When they got in there the guy grabbed him by the throat and tried undo his trousers. My friend is a tiny gay man and this guy told him that if he said anything about it he'd **** him up. Luckily he managed to get away but it just goes to show that sometimes you never really know a person.
 
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