Black Lives Matter

[glasgowspur]

My thoughts after clicking the link on an article about Black Lives Matter/Taking a knee/racism/injustice written by Douglas Murray, a white man who studied at Eton and Oxford and therefore someone who has never faced racism or racial discrimination writing a post on racism and how people should feel is...

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

You don't have to be black to have experienced bigotry or prejudice.
Not I suspect he (I struggle to use the words author or writer after reading that) ever has.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Cool. I am going to write on a journalistic platform about COVID-19 and what we can do to fix it, what people should do, and shouldn't do, and why, because I once had a cold.

Also, you can't lump in all discrimination into one bucket, that is literally the problem with people not understanding the root cause of issues. Oh I have been racially discriminated against, therefore I also know how disabled people must feel. Christ on a bike...

I did say 'obviously not the same'. Sorry. I should have made it red and bigger.
It's easier to empathise if you have undergone a comparable experience, whilst in no way equating them.

Educated white men are very often capable of great thought and insight into issues that they have no direct personal experience of.
As are educated Indians, Mexicans, Jamaicans, Japanese, Kenyans etc etc...

 

[Rorschach]

My thoughts on an article usually come after reading it and assessing the content rather then pre-judging it.
But each to their own.

As for Murray, I seem to recall he's experienced discrimination based on his homosexuality. Obviously not the same but, if you're going to just throw race and education in, then why not sexuality too?

He's also has a few controversial views on immigration and a favorite author of some authoritarians as it turns out. I don't know enough about his work to comment more than that but he is a divisive figure. Well I know a little bit more but I'll keep those opinions to myself.

 

[glasgowspur]

The kneeling thing has largely past me by so apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but I wont kneel for anyone, don't care who you are.
I will kneel with them, no problem and be glad to.

 

[jts1882]

That is a good idea. And they also should be nailed to their heads so they can't take them off.

The obvious argument against is privacy. The data would need to be held independently.

So if they can solve the privacy element, you have no issues with the nailing to the head.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I did say 'obviously not the same'. Sorry. I should have made it red and bigger.
It's easier to empathise if you have undergone a comparable experience, whilst in no way equating them.

Educated white men are very often capable of great thought and insight into issues that they have no direct personal experience of.
As are educated Indians, Mexicans, Jamaicans, Japanese, Kenyans etc etc...

again, that's my point. They are not comparable experiences just because a straight white able bodied man is gay, how the hell does he know what it's like to be disabled? How can he have the thought and insight of a disabled man despite never being one? How can he know what a 30 year old disabled man's life is about because he read a book on it once? He read an online article? Cool, that must sum it right up.

Being Black is not comparable to being Asian.
Being Asian is not comparable to being disabled.
Being disabled is not comparable to being gay.
Being gay is not comparable to being black.

Reminds me of that quote in Good Will Hunting:
Sean McGuire (Robin Williams): "No one could possibly understand the depths of you. But you presume to know everything about me because you saw a painting of mine"

 

[LutonSpurs]

Yeah some good points and also the Empire did some horrific things in India. Though for some reason not the same level of animosity remains with them.

Im not saying the British empire was good, never have done but the have been two posters on this very website who said i should expect people to hate me because of my nationality, these are often the same sort of people who preach to you about tolerance.

Oh it isn't personal but history matters. It still impacts some people.

In terms of hating you Chich. No chance mate.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Oh and Douglas Murray should never be an authority on racism. He is a clam of the highest order. An educated clam. But a clam nonetheless.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Oh it isn't personal but history matters. It still impacts some people.

In terms of hating you Chich. No chance mate.

Yeah the hating part was not aimed at you but two other posters who actually said British people should expect to be hated because of the past.

Now let me say this in the strongest possible terms that is no where near as bad as anything black and Asian people have had to put up with. But it did give me a little insight to what they feel. Worse for them because of the threat of violence and discrimination in workplace.

But i genuinely thought more were going to universities and higher education. The only statistic in this that has surprised me in all of this in this country is the deaths in police custody which is why if a black or Asian person dies in police custody i would support a full and open public enquiry. It might be expensive but because of the historical issues i think it is one measure that will help us improve relations.

 

[spitshine]

A tangible example? An apology. The Australian government under Kevin Rudd managed to put together a public, televised apology on behalf of previous government's to the Indigenous people that were massacred, stolen from their families and forced to assimilate into white culture. It may be token but it helps people start to heal.. As far as I know it's not something that's ever been done in the UK or the USA.

Another? Remove monuments to racism, several streets in Melbourne are named after men who 'discovered' the land, these people were involved in genocidal massacre of the Indigenous population in other parts of the country. Remove them and publicly acknowledge the removal. I'm sure these exist in the UK and they definitely do in the USA.

Speaking on Australia again, allow indigenous people to be involved in politics and decision making. It's their land. You may not think these issues relate to the UK, but it's systemic and all linked.

As I've said, I don't have all the answers but steps like this are the bare minimum in my mind and I'm not a black/indigenous person, so I can't imagine how they must feel having to live with these nods to colonisation and slaughter in their lives. Plus the ongoing, flow on effects they live with day to day.

How young are these two countries - USA/Australia compared to the UK....
Needless to say we are far more civilised and that is shown in our integration of
all groups.

I was in Sydney 2000 for the Olympics watching in a bar one evening and a fair amount of the regulars there wouldn’t accept Cathy Freeman as one of their own.
This would never happen here and we are far removed from this.
Tarring the uk with the same brush is wrong.

Black people are not disadvantaged here compared to other countries and I would say a far number play the card unfairly when they would probably need to see what goes on in places like San Francisco(mission).

One thing I have noticed - is the level of hostility between Asian and black people in parts of the uk. Maybe a discussion is needed here.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

How young are these two countries - USA/Australia compared to the UK....
Needless to say we are far more civilised and that is shown in our integration of
all groups.

I was in Sydney 2000 for the Olympics watching in a bar one evening and a fair amount of the regulars there wouldn’t accept Cathy Freeman as one of their own.
This would never happen here and we are far removed from this.
Tarring the uk with the same brush is wrong.

Black people are not disadvantaged here compared to other countries and I would say a far number play the card unfairly when they would probably need to see what goes on in places like San Francisco(mission).

One thing I have noticed - is the level of hostility between Asian and black people in parts of the uk. Maybe a discussion is needed here.

But if black people are disadvantaged at all due to being black, that's still a problem, right? If we are looking at our own country, and if we accept that there is racism here, then whether other countries are worse shouldn't matter in terms of putting our own house in order.

As for playing the race card - I think it's a horrible phrase although if I am honest I know I have used it in the past. I don't anymore. Are there some people who might take advantage of a situation for their own benefit? I am sure there are. But if we as a society have created an environment where someone can use racism against their own colour to try to gain some perceived advantage (if indeed that does actually happen) then we as a society only have ourselves to blame for creating an environment where racism exists in the first place.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Black people are not disadvantaged here compared to other countries and I would say a far number play the card unfairly when they would probably need to see what goes on in places like San Francisco(mission).

One thing I have noticed - is the level of hostility between Asian and black people in parts of the uk. Maybe a discussion is needed here.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Good to hear you've really researched your thoughts on this. Of course with a post like that, I could tell you the Sky is Blue and you'd disagree...

Black people and minorities are disadvantaged in pay, in health, in welfare, in prisons, and pretty much every facet of life in the UK. You can disagree, but the facts are what matter, not your opinion.

Pay? https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ethnic-minorities-lose-32bn-a-year-in-pay-gap

Health? https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m268

Prisons? https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...prison-sentences-white-children-a8470041.html

Jeez mate, get out of that bubble. Also 'Playing the race card' is purely a method for a white person "delegitimise the voices of people on the receiving end of those narratives" so that opinion can also get binned too.

People need to stop reading the Daily Mail and try picking up a book and educating themselves.

 

[AuroRaman]

How young are these two countries - USA/Australia compared to the UK....
Needless to say we are far more civilised and that is shown in our integration of
all groups.

I was in Sydney 2000 for the Olympics watching in a bar one evening and a fair amount of the regulars there wouldn’t accept Cathy Freeman as one of their own.
This would never happen here and we are far removed from this.
Tarring the uk with the same brush is wrong.

Black people are not disadvantaged here compared to other countries and I would say a far number play the card unfairly when they would probably need to see what goes on in places like San Francisco(mission).

One thing I have noticed - is the level of hostility between Asian and black people in parts of the uk. Maybe a discussion is needed here.

As a person of colour, please may I make a suggestion to you.

The phrase ‘playing the race card’ is as offensive and ignorant as ‘I don’t see colour’

I’d appreciate it if we didn’t have these terms thrown around on this board but also appreciate I have no agency over what others write.

 

[spitshine]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Good to hear you've really researched your thoughts on this. Of course with a post like that, I could tell you the Sky is Blue and you'd disagree...

Black people and minorities are disadvantaged in pay, in health, in welfare, in prisons, and pretty much every facet of life in the UK. You can disagree, but the facts are what matter, not your opinion.

Pay? https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ethnic-minorities-lose-32bn-a-year-in-pay-gap

Health? https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m268

Prisons? https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...prison-sentences-white-children-a8470041.html

Jeez mate, get out of that bubble. Also 'Playing the race card' is purely a method for a white person "delegitimise the voices of people on the receiving end of those narratives" so that opinion can also get binned too.

People need to stop reading the Daily Mail and try picking up a book and educating themselves.

Not in my profession(finance) I can say with almost 100% certainty, everyone is treated the same on pay, health etc.

Do you think Diane Abbott is paid less or given inferior benefits as a backbencher than her white counterparts?


But in all walks of life people try to gain an advantage or skew it that way.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

But if black people are disadvantaged at all due to being black, that's still a problem, right? If we are looking at our own country, and if we accept that there is racism here, then whether other countries are worse shouldn't matter in terms of putting our own house in order.

As for playing the race card - I think it's a horrible phrase although if I am honest I know I have used it in the past. I don't anymore. Are there some people who might take advantage of a situation for their own benefit? I am sure there are. But if we as a society have created an environment where someone can use racism against their own colour to try to gain some perceived advantage (if indeed that does actually happen) then we as a society only have ourselves to blame for creating an environment where racism exists in the first place.

See i agree with you if the is any inequality it is wrong. As much as i dislike politicians it is down to them to put forward policies and laws that stop it.

We do fairly well i think compared to other countries but we should aim for perfection. I have long known about the high number of black people in the prison population. My wife used to work in the service as a therapist. I put that down to poverty and lack of opportunities which i believe is slowly starting to change.

I really did not know about deaths in custody and think that is an area for protest, i can agree with that and would back reform or ideas for improving things.

As for people "playing the race card" i think the are people's in all areas who take advantage of social issues. I dont know if people are doing it much on race but have noticed people doing it in regards to mental health issues(something close to my heart) and i find it distasteful.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

As a person of colour, please may I make a suggestion to you.

The phrase ‘playing the race card’ is as offensive and ignorant as ‘I don’t see colour’

I’d appreciate it if we didn’t have these terms thrown around on this board but also appreciate I have no agency over what others write.

Sorry mate just used it in the post before. I like when people like you say things like this because it opens up my views to other people's perspective.

I never actually use it out of quoting.

Called loads of black or asian people tw*ts when the annoy me, same as i do whites.

McDonald's near where i work opened for drive through. No word of a lie i counted 35 cars in the road, all whites and i mouthed tw*t at every fcuking one as i cycled past.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Not in my profession(finance) I can say with almost 400% certainty, everyone is treated the same on pay, health etc.

Do you think Diane Abbott is paid less or given inferior benefits as a backbencher than her white counterparts?

But in all walks of life people try to gain an advantage or skew it that way.

Again, have you ever read into this subject or did you read the Daily Mail and just get your thoughts from there? Several firms in Finance industry have posted their ethinicity pay gap and guess what, with a 400% certainty, people are not paid the same. You can read more here, you're welcome. https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manag...ared-for-ethnicity-pay-gap-reporting/a1267107

Talking about playing the race card and bringing up Diane Abbot tells me all I need to know about you. Go read a book on issues instead of Twitter and the Mail.

 

[spitshine]

Again, have you ever read into this subject or did you read the Daily Mail and just get your thoughts from there? Several firms in Finance industry have posted their ethinicity pay gap and guess what, with a 400% certainty, people are not paid the same. You can read more here, you're welcome. https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manag...ared-for-ethnicity-pay-gap-reporting/a1267107

Talking about playing the race card and bringing up Diane Abbot tells me all I need to know about you. Go read a book on issues instead of Twitter and the Mail.

slightly confused by your comment on Diane Abbott.

let’s use another example - footballers.
Are black players treated or paid less?

 

[spitshine]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Good to hear you've really researched your thoughts on this. Of course with a post like that, I could tell you the Sky is Blue and you'd disagree...

Black people and minorities are disadvantaged in pay, in health, in welfare, in prisons, and pretty much every facet of life in the UK. You can disagree, but the facts are what matter, not your opinion.

Pay? https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ethnic-minorities-lose-32bn-a-year-in-pay-gap

Health? https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m268

Prisons? https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...prison-sentences-white-children-a8470041.html

Jeez mate, get out of that bubble. Also 'Playing the race card' is purely a method for a white person "delegitimise the voices of people on the receiving end of those narratives" so that opinion can also get binned too.

People need to stop reading the Daily Mail and try picking up a book and educating themselves.

I don’t read the Daily Mail as one would think the world is gonna end according to their headlines

 

[AuroRaman]

Sorry mate just used it in the post before. I like when people like you say things like this because it opens up my views to other people's perspective.

I never actually use it out of quoting.

Called loads of black or asian people tw*ts when the annoy me, same as i do whites.

McDonald's near where i work opened for drive through. No word of a lie i counted 35 cars in the road, all whites and i mouthed tw*t at every fcuking one as i cycled past.

Thanks mate, I didn’t notice your usage in the post before, appreciate it. It’s not something I lose sleep over but it’s quite jarring whenever they’re used. I’d prefer not to call individuals out over it as they’re widely used terms but if I can help in some way opening up perspectives then it’s only a positive.

Haha, one thing colour doesn’t discriminate over is people behaving like tacos, I’m with you there!