Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
This is a pot and kettle argument to be honest Parklane. Plenty of others have done the same about another former Spurs manager who manages in the Premier League currently.
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AVB
- Thread starter El Guepardo
- Start date
This is a pot and kettle argument to be honest Parklane. Plenty of others have done the same about another former Spurs manager who manages in the Premier League currently.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying people put too much weight on it. If you offered me a lower points total than last season but a top 4 finish I would snap your hand off.
As would everyone.
And if at the beginning of the season you was given the choice between 73 points and 69 (or whatever) you'd be choosing 73, why? Because 73 points is a better return from 38 games than 69 is.
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parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Maybe , maybe not but this thread is all about AVB so that point is irrelevant. And if its the one you are always talking about he has won a lot less then AVB and as far as I know AVB does not have three ( should have been four but he did a runner) relegations to his CV.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Tbf to JTG, i think he isn't talking about Rent-A-Quote senior but the Villa coach...
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Why, the general point still stands, surely?
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Only for mistaking who he meant, the point about AVB getting no credit still stands.
What credit does AVB deserve from his time with us? Without Bale getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 8th right? The common argument is 'but that's not the point'
Im sorry but AVB can take zero credit as the next season when he was sacked proves.
Im sorry but AVB can take zero credit as the next season when he was sacked proves.
Baleforce
Martin Peters
What credit does El Tel deserve from his time with us? Without Gazza getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 14th right?
What credit does Pleat deserve from his time with us? Without Allen getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 5th right?
What credit does Burkinshaw deserve from his time with us? Without Ardilles getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 11th right?
What credit does Graham deserve from his time with us? Without Ginola getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 19th right?
What credit does Francis deserve from his time with us? Without Sheringham getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 16th right?
What credit does Jol deserve from his time with us? Without Lennon getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 8th right?
What credit does Ramos deserve from his time with us? Without Berbatov getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 12th right?
What credit does Pochettino deserve from his time with us? Without Kane getting him out of trouble in almost every game you do realise we'd have finished about 7th right?
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Erm, I was referring to Sherwood.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
I simply like to give him less credit than you do or Galeforce for example. We saw what happened once Bale was sold, we turned into a total mess.
Surely his entire reign has to be taken into account, not just the good season? It's cherry picking to simply focus on the season where he enjoyed success (not necessarily accusing you of this, but first season tends to be brought up more than the 2nd).
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Every single member of this forum is guilty of it
I have no doubt about that, but some do it far more often then others.
Craig_J
Eidur Gudjohnsen
AVB was successful at FC Porto and now at Zenit in much the same way that Juande Ramos was successful at Sevilla and then got found out in the big league.
If anything, Ramos has done a lot more to prove himself the better manager. He was successful at Sevilla in a hard league to break, AVB has been successful at two clubs where failing to succeed would have taken a very strong effort. Ramos has also since gone on to take some obscure team from the Ukraine into a Europa League final and didn't do that bad a job at Madrid either.
If anything, Ramos has done a lot more to prove himself the better manager. He was successful at Sevilla in a hard league to break, AVB has been successful at two clubs where failing to succeed would have taken a very strong effort. Ramos has also since gone on to take some obscure team from the Ukraine into a Europa League final and didn't do that bad a job at Madrid either.
@ Galeforce you've come up with a very predictable reply. Does every manager get a bit of help? Yes. AVB got helped out more than all those you listed put together due to a player in Bale who was amongst the best in Europe that season. His inefficiency was unmasked the following season.
Your argument is moot.
Your argument is moot.
Baleforce
Martin Peters
I think the theory that we were a one man team with bale is flawed, he was part of an effective unit, do the defence not get credit for one goal being enough, does the attack not get get credit for opening up space for bale to work?
it's not help, if a player excels in a unit then the manager is doing his job properly, would you credit AVB more had the goals been shared equally around the team?
Of course.
Short memory does seem to be an issue here I thought we all knew Bale dragged us to 5th that season??
I realise you think AVB got a raw deal but I see it like this: Hes a good manager when the pressures off. In a big league with the maximum amount of pressure he can't handle it. Look at the facts!
Short memory does seem to be an issue here I thought we all knew Bale dragged us to 5th that season??
I realise you think AVB got a raw deal but I see it like this: Hes a good manager when the pressures off. In a big league with the maximum amount of pressure he can't handle it. Look at the facts!
Baleforce
Martin Peters
that's where we disagree, I think we became an increasingly tight defensive unit over the course of that season, a collectively effective side with a world class player in magnificent form
this has all been done to death, certainly by me, probably by you as well, I feel no turning of opinion from either side and see no further point in sparring
if people don't rate AVB that's completely fine, everyone can have an opinion, if people want to talk about former employees and their failures and successes then there is no issue in having a thread for that, there is no point however, imo, of discussions of his latest trophy being spammed with the same arguments of "why he failed at spurs" every couple of months
I'm fully aware I'm as guilty of this regurgitation as anyone, so I will endeavour not to jump in and argue from now on, I think he's a good manager, I think he will have a successful career, I think we failed him as much as he failed us, any change in my opinion will follow the progress of his career, not points made on a web forum