AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

He may be fit, he won't be match fit though. Reckon Parker would be bought on at 60-80 minutes depending how we are doing.

As long as there is no danger of another injury, I'd start him and bring on Sandro after 60 or so minutes. I think that the workrate of Parker and Dempsey would really have made a difference against WBA and Norwich.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

As long as there is no danger of another injury, I'd start him and bring on Sandro after 60 or so minutes. I think that the workrate of Parker and Dempsey would really have made a difference against WBA and Norwich.

With a player like Parker there will always be a risk of injury. He is not the type of player to give 80%. He will go out and play at 100% whether his body can take it or not.

He needs to be protected from himself until he is fully fit.

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

Next game I'd go

Friedel/Lloris

Walker
Gallas/Caulker
Vertonghen
Ekotto

Sandro
Carroll
Dembele

Dempsey
Bale
Ade

No thanks.

Same back 5, but Sig for Carroll and Defoe for Dempsey. Would not be keen to drop Defoe for Dempsey. Defoe and ADE has been when we have scored.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

Gallas, Livermore and Defoe don't deserve to start based on our last game.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

--------------Lloris-----------------

Walker---Gallas---Vertonghen---BAE

----------Parker--Dembele---------

Lennon-------Dempsey---------Bale

----------------Ade----------------


That's how I'd start next match if Parker is fit. I love Sandro but he hasn't looked himself these first games and we need parkers mentality now. Get the team winning again and get the feelgood factor going, and gradually get Sandro back in.

Think Brad might have earned his shirt for the Reading game. Some brilliant saves on Saturday. I think Lloris will start v Lazio

 

[NWND]

I'm like you still optimistic and feel you can't really judge AVB until he has had a few weeks to work with his new players and get a team together.

Some have called the Norwich performance clueless but it wasn't. Losing 3-0 at home to Southampton and Middlesbrough under Hoddle was a clueless performance. Yes, Freidel dug us out a few times against Norwich but we got a point and were 5 mins from all 3 in a poor performance. That says that actually we were organised and hard to break down and kept our shape. From what i've seen we struggled on the ball, but the players are used to a system that saw most of our play go through Modric and VDV. We also seem to be changing to a very direct style of play to a more patient one. Its going to take time before we know and are comfortable with playing like this and without Modric and VDV.

We also kept our shape well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and WBA and I think we'll be tough to get at this season. We just need to be more intelligent on the ball and take our chances. We deserved a point against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 3 against WBA which we'd have got if we'd taken our chances in the first half of both games.

The comments from both Freidel and Ade after the game are that the players are right behind the manager and the atmosphere in the dressing room is still positive. Which is a good sign. Although people were amazed we kept Defoe up top against Norwich, with a goal against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and an ok performance against WBA, AVB probably felt he should keep his place until a poor performance, which he just had. That makes players feel more included and actually something he has probably taken as a lesson from his time at Chelsea is not to automatically drop players just because he wants his new man in. In the longer term it keeps the squad unity better.

In terms of line up I like Gutterboy's but I'm more inclined to a slower progression to 4-3-3 and to play Dempsey in the hole supporting Ade, especially as Sig seems to be finding his feet a bit.

.......................Freidel/Lloris

Walker...Kaboul/Gallas....Vertonghen.....BAE

............Parker/Sandro.....Dembele

Lennon...........Dempsey/Sig.............Bale

...........................Ade

I think Parker will be awesome in AVB's system too as he is amazing at pressing high and he also uses the ball intelligently, more so than people give him credit for, he doesn't normally lose possession and is comfortable receiving the ball tight and turning out of trouble.

 

[AdamB]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

What would you do in a 4-2-3-1 then, bring Lennon in for Sig?

I don't think 4-3-3 will be too big a shock for anyone except maybe Bale, as many have played it for their national teams or for their previous teams.

I like both setups anyway. At least 4-4-2 is finally dead and buried

I'd have Parker and Dembele in CM, Lennon, Dempsey and Bale as the 3 and then Adebayor up top

I like Sandro a lot but need Parker in there, for his consistency and leadership

Sigurdsson hasnt done anything yet to deserve to start - question whether its him or Dempsey. I would go with Dempsey as he offers for more goal threat

 

[AdamB]

.......................Freidel/Lloris

Walker...Kaboul/Gallas....Vertonghen.....BAE

............Parker/Sandro.....Dembele

Lennon...........Dempsey/Sig.............Bale

...........................Ade

I think Parker will be awesome in AVB's system too as he is amazing at pressing high and he also uses the ball intelligently, more so than people give him credit for, he doesn't normally lose possession and is comfortable receiving the ball tight and turning out of trouble.

Agree with that team. Think that has to be our best bet. With Gallas playing brick and Kaboul injured, I would play Dawson alongside Vert rather than Caulker as I dont feel that now is the right time to try to blook Caulker and I also think some people are getting a bit carried away with him

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm like you still optimistic and feel you can't really judge AVB until he has had a few weeks to work with his new players and get a team together.

Some have called the Norwich performance clueless but it wasn't. Losing 3-0 at home to Southampton and Middlesbrough under Hoddle was a clueless performance. Yes, Freidel dug us out a few times against Norwich but we got a point and were 5 mins from all 3 in a poor performance. That says that actually we were organised and hard to break down and kept our shape. From what i've seen we struggled on the ball, but the players are used to a system that saw most of our play go through Modric and VDV. We also seem to be changing to a very direct style of play to a more patient one. Its going to take time before we know and are comfortable with playing like this and without Modric and VDV.

We also kept our shape well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and WBA and I think we'll be tough to get at this season. We just need to be more intelligent on the ball and take our chances. We deserved a point against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 3 against WBA which we'd have got if we'd taken our chances in the first half of both games.

The comments from both Freidel and Ade after the game are that the players are right behind the manager and the atmosphere in the dressing room is still positive. Which is a good sign. Although people were amazed we kept Defoe up top against Norwich, with a goal against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and an ok performance against WBA, AVB probably felt he should keep his place until a poor performance, which he just had. That makes players feel more included and actually something he has probably taken as a lesson from his time at Chelsea is not to automatically drop players just because he wants his new man in. In the longer term it keeps the squad unity better.

In terms of line up I like Gutterboy's but I'm more inclined to a slower progression to 4-3-3 and to play Dempsey in the hole supporting Ade, especially as Sig seems to be finding his feet a bit.

.......................Freidel/Lloris

Walker...Kaboul/Gallas....Vertonghen.....BAE

............Parker/Sandro.....Dembele

Lennon...........Dempsey/Sig.............Bale

...........................Ade

I think Parker will be awesome in AVB's system too as he is amazing at pressing high and he also uses the ball intelligently, more so than people give him credit for, he doesn't normally lose possession and is comfortable receiving the ball tight and turning out of trouble.

Sensational post. Love it. Perfect summing up.

Absolutely agree as well that in all games we have looked solid, and this provides a good foundation to build upon. (Save for a sticky period when we changed formation against West Brom) We will be tough to get at.

We just look unsure of what to do with the ball, but this is perhaps understandable after 4 years of Harry's management and a totally different style of play. I did think maybe considering AVB had an entire pre-season and more suited players than Chelsea that we may have grown accustomed to it sooner than we have done, but it's by no means a lost cause. It does seem clear that yesterday's formation required a ball carrier because our play was too rigid, and also attacking full backs. Benny seemed like he still wanted to be a provider when he needed to be an outlet, and we didn't really get Walker involved either. But we did manage to create chances against West Brom, with the same team, so maybe it was an anxiety issue...

Which brings me on to another of your points which I thought was a great one. I think it's clear Defoe wasn't really suited to the system yesterday, he simply couldn't get into it. Livermore wasn't doing great in possession either but I do think he is actually very good defensively in terms of keeping shape. But I think AVB buys good will from the squad by not making sweeping changes and keeping faith with certain, probably popular, members of the squad. Probably why he gave Rafa a game last week too. He is showing he is fair. Ditto giving Huddlestone a shot this week, and not playing Vertonghen immediately at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. If he drops all of these players straight away, and still doesn't get results, then the squad are hurt and less inclined to fight for him. If he waits until results haven't picked up, he justifies trying new players and the change is more accepted by the squad. We may drop points now because of it but we may win points we normally wouldn't later in the season from players fighting for him and putting their bodies on the line, and long term it allows AVB some more time to get his ideas across and will allow him to get a winning run started. Even if he started with all new players, and got wins on the board, if results then turned he wouldn't have bought the good will from the squad and it could be harder to recover from.

 

[milo]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

At least 4-4-2 is finally dead and buried

At Spurs or generally? Do you think that no team will win the Premier League playing 4-4-2 again?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

The only thing that worries me at the minute is that we have a group of players suited perfectly to counter attacking football but AVB is not setting us up to play this way. This sort of game suits us because we have Lennon and Bale with pace to burn. As we draw teams onto us their defense push up and leave space in behind for Lennon and Bale to run into providing we get the ball to them quick enough. In a one to one race over 50 yards there are not many players in the premiership who will out pace Bale and Lennon.

AVB isn't setting us up to play this way, he seems to want us to press which means when we win the ball back it's higher up the field which is good, however this tends to pin teams in meaning there is very little space in behind for our speedier guys to run into.

Basically I'm not sure he's setting us up in a way that best utilises the strengths of our players, I hope that he is not so rigid that he won't change things if it seems that things are not going our way in the next few games.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The only thing that worries me at the minute is that we have a group of players suited perfectly to counter attacking football but AVB is not setting us up to play this way. This sort of game suits us because we have Lennon and Bale with pace to burn. As we draw teams onto us their defense push up and leave space in behind for Lennon and Bale to run into providing we get the ball to them quick enough. In a one to one race over 50 yards there are not many players in the premiership who will out pace Bale and Lennon.

AVB isn't setting us up to play this way, he seems to want us to press which means when we win the ball back it's higher up the field which is good, however this tends to pin teams in meaning there is very little space in behind for our speedier guys to run into.

Basically I'm not sure he's setting us up in a way that best utilises the strengths of our players, I hope that he is not so rigid that he won't change things if it seems that things are not going our way in the next few games.

You see Swansea trying to win the ball quickly though, and if Wayne Routledge and Nathan Dyer can play in a patient passing team, then so can Bale and Lennon. It will just take time for it to click for all of the team.

 

[spasm]

we look isolated. players too far from one another. lack of movement? wrong set-up? early doors on new system? lack of requisite personnel? i personally don't understand how the system is supposed to work. and before any of you tetchy plonkers take this as premature criticism of AVB, it is a genuine question. how is the system supposed to work in theory and why doesn't it look threatening?

 

[DMac]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

I'd have Parker and Dembele in CM, Lennon, Dempsey and Bale as the 3 and then Adebayor up top

I like Sandro a lot but need Parker in there, for his consistency and leadership

Sigurdsson hasnt done anything yet to deserve to start - question whether its him or Dempsey. I would go with Dempsey as he offers for more goal threat

I posted this on Spurscommunity, but the reason Sigurdsson has appeared anonymous is because he's been getting into good positions and his teammates don't pass to him. I have some screen grabs a few minutes apart each showing Sigurdsson pulling away into great positions to set up a play or a shot, and Sandro, Walker, and Bale each do not pass to him.

Edit:

Here is Bale missing the pass: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich4.png

And Walker: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich3.png

 

[DMac]

we look isolated. players too far from one another. lack of movement? wrong set-up? early doors on new system? lack of requisite personnel? i personally don't understand how the system is supposed to work. and before any of you tetchy plonkers take this as premature criticism of AVB, it is a genuine question. how is the system supposed to work in theory and why doesn't it look threatening?

Here this is one of the examples I just mentioned, look at the positioning of our players before Sandro decides to shoot, and you'll see that we are in dangerous positions but not putting the obvious play together. I can tell you that Gylfi, Bale, and Livermore definitely have in mind the move that I outlined, and Sandro and Defoe are oblivious.

This is basically what Barcelona would do in this position imo. Black lines are passes blue lines are runs: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Spurs-NorwichBarcaversion.png

 

[spasm]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

I posted this on Spurscommunity, but the reason Sigurdsson has appeared anonymous is because he's been getting into good positions and his teammates don't pass to him. I have some screen grabs a few minutes apart each showing Sigurdsson pulling away into great positions to set up a play or a shot, and Sandro, Walker, and Bale each do not pass to him.

Edit:

Here is Bale missing the pass: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich4.png

And Walker: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich3.png

nice examples.

 

[Mulletperm]

Those are worrying examples, and in Bale's case I think another example of his possibly slightly inflated ego pushing him to take players on and shoot himself as opposed to playing the easier ball.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

I posted this on Spurscommunity, but the reason Sigurdsson has appeared anonymous is because he's been getting into good positions and his teammates don't pass to him. I have some screen grabs a few minutes apart each showing Sigurdsson pulling away into great positions to set up a play or a shot, and Sandro, Walker, and Bale each do not pass to him.

Edit:

Here is Bale missing the pass: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich4.png

And Walker: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich3.png

Two excellent examples...thanks for those mate, appreciated.

 

[Hully]

You see Swansea trying to win the ball quickly though, and if Wayne Routledge and Nathan Dyer can play in a patient passing team, then so can Bale and Lennon. It will just take time for it to click for all of the team.

True, but most teams will attack Swansea, while against us they will park the bus and look to put diagonal balls through our high line.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Still Optimistic Thread

I posted this on Spurscommunity, but the reason Sigurdsson has appeared anonymous is because he's been getting into good positions and his teammates don't pass to him. I have some screen grabs a few minutes apart each showing Sigurdsson pulling away into great positions to set up a play or a shot, and Sandro, Walker, and Bale each do not pass to him.

Edit:

Here is Bale missing the pass: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich4.png

And Walker: http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/Triggerman783/Tottenham-Norwich3.png

Nice.


I understand why walker missed him though, he's standing behind the ref.