AVB - I want him out now!

[NWND]

I'd say strong AVB skeptics like NWND face an uphill struggle getting their message to spread to the terraces. "We want AVB out, say we want AVB out" doesn't scan, and the chances of the WHL crowd being imaginitive enough to come up with something that does? #slim

No doubt fella. I mean, even I wasn't a strong AVB skeptic until a couple of weeks ago. I have been very supportive and defensive of him quite a lot of the time before that.

 

[NWND]

Oh and do you know what? We're too soft at this club. We tolerate failure. What happened to "we at Tottenham set our standards so very high, that even in failure there is an element of glory" or whatever the exact quote is!

It's like audere est facere has been turned into, well who do we think we are, expecting to challenge the top clubs and play good football? Harry was ridiculed for his "this is as good as it gets" comment, but this acceptance of AVB needing time and lets see if he turns it around and plays good football is just as wrong to me!

We're Tottenham effin' Hotspur, why should we accept mediocrity because things take time? What one of these '5 year plans' actually get seen through? Serious football clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc don't tolerate even any hint of failure. It doesn't take a year and a half to decide that its time to start attacking a bit and the integration of new players that are quality prospects is a good thing, not a hinderance. I saw against Sheriff that playing Lamela makes us better to watch, so does he play him against Saudi Sportswashing Machine? Er... no. You know what, we were crap against Sheriff too, but Lamela's performance made it all worth watching. He seemed to have a license to drift around causing mayhem in their defence, but my concern is maybe this is why he isn't getting picked because his instinct to drift and be 'off the cuff' doesn't fit into the rigidity AVB thinks he needs - so he's going to grind all the freedom out of Lamela's game and turn him into a machine and then he can get picked. I hope not!

I'm just sick of us accepting half-hearted attempts to get us competitive. We all sneakily thought we had a chance of the title this summer didn't we? Deep down? A lot of pundits did too. I think we all thought we'd see us kick on from last season with the new players and have less problems breaking down stubborn teams, put more teams to the sword at home, but the same problems and issues are there and if anything are getting worse with no signs of them being addressed.

I think Bill Nick would be turning in his grave at how far our standards have dropped and the crappy years of Colin Calderwood and Allan Nielsen are constantly referred to as reasons why we should all be greatful for finishing 5th playing defensive football and limping out of all the cups!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Who was in charge of Spurs last season?
How many of these new players and youth team graduates have been regulars in the team?
How ridiculed is Abramovich when he sacks his latest manager? Not very. There is a lot of moaning in the press/punditry for a few days then it all terms to adulation and excitement at Chelsea's new manager and what that means for the Premiership.

Abramovich routinely gets ridiculed by anyone sensible. They win trophies because they chuck money at the situation but for the investment they have made in their squad, they've finished only a point or so ahead of last year and the season before we were 2 places ahead of them. They are a joke and shouldn't be held up as an example of good practice of anything in football.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Exactly, which is why we spent most of last summer's deadline day trying to tie-up Moutinho. Infact, supposdely one of the biggest things that got AVB the job was he came to the interview with Levy and Lewis and all those guys armed with a scouting list of players he'd compiled during his year out.

Plus, everyone in world football has been following the talents of Eriksen, Capoue, Lamela, Chadli, Lloris, Vertonghen, Sigurdsson.

We almost signed Willian, probably on AVB's say-so and we would have signed Oscar in similar circs, but were also gazumped by Chelsea.

We're constantly linked with Hulk and we've been linked to Varela, Jackson Martinez and a variety of others. I'm pretty sure that AVB has a massive say in who we target, once the targets are agreed, of course its down to Levy/Baldini to make them happen.

Agree here - obviously AVB does have a big say in who we go for. And while we may not have got Willian or Moutinho, it can't be an excuse that he didn't get 2 of the supposed best players in their position around to come and play for us. We still have a very strong squad compared to others and should be getting success and progress with that.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Oh and do you know what? We're too soft at this club. We tolerate failure. What happened to "we at Tottenham set our standards so very high, that even in failure there is an element of glory" or whatever the exact quote is!

It's like audere est facere has been turned into, well who do we think we are, expecting to challenge the top clubs and play good football? Harry was ridiculed for his "this is as good as it gets" comment, but this acceptance of AVB needing time and lets see if he turns it around and plays good football is just as wrong to me!

We're Tottenham effin' Hotspur, why should we accept mediocrity because things take time? What one of these '5 year plans' actually get seen through? Serious football clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc don't tolerate even any hint of failure. It doesn't take a year and a half to decide that its time to start attacking a bit and the integration of new players that are quality prospects is a good thing, not a hinderance. I saw against Sheriff that playing Lamela makes us better to watch, so does he play him against Saudi Sportswashing Machine? Er... no. You know what, we were crap against Sheriff too, but Lamela's performance made it all worth watching. He seemed to have a license to drift around causing mayhem in their defence, but my concern is maybe this is why he isn't getting picked because his instinct to drift and be 'off the cuff' doesn't fit into the rigidity AVB thinks he needs - so he's going to grind all the freedom out of Lamela's game and turn him into a machine and then he can get picked. I hope not!

I'm just sick of us accepting half-hearted attempts to get us competitive. We all sneakily thought we had a chance of the title this summer didn't we? Deep down? A lot of pundits did too. I think we all thought we'd see us kick on from last season with the new players and have less problems breaking down stubborn teams, put more teams to the sword at home, but the same problems and issues are there and if anything are getting worse with no signs of them being addressed.

I think Bill Nick would be turning in his grave at how far our standards have dropped and the crappy years of Colin Calderwood and Allan Nielsen are constantly referred to as reasons why we should all be greatful for finishing 5th playing defensive football and limping out of all the cups!

Just don't agree here. It's a nothing post based on nothing. Because bigger clubs can throw money at a situation, it means we should abandon patience and planning? I would say and I think most people would agree that if we are going to compete, we plan well ahead and beat them with structure, planning, and patience rather than money. Because we just can't compete on that score.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Just don't agree here. It's a nothing post based on nothing. Because bigger clubs can throw money at a situation, it means we should abandon patience and planning? I would say and I think most people would agree that if we are going to compete, we plan well ahead and beat them with structure, planning, and patience rather than money. Because we just can't compete on that score.

I hear your point but in fairness we've just upgraded a squad that finished 5th by a whopping 120 million quid, ( admittedly whilst losing a certain Welshman) It's hardly been shopping at poundland now has it?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I hear your point but in fairness we've just upgraded a squad that finished 5th by a whopping 120 million quid, ( admittedly whilst losing a certain Welshman) It's hardly been shopping at poundland now has it?

I don't see it like that in the sense that if we sell the whole squad for 300 million and spend 200 million replacing them, are you still able to then say 'Well we spent 200 million quid, we should get success'?

We sold Bale for 80 because he was worth 80 to us in terms of importance. I can accept we clearly have a squad of good quality as a result of spending more evenly throughout the side, but at the very least we need time to get these guys playing as we want, to get them comfortable with each other.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Am I mistaken or are we AHEAD of our points total at this stage last season? Irrespective of any stylistic discussions, IF that is the case, then it is simply not regression in terms of 'effectiveness'…

I trust you've read my own personal observations of AVB right now?

Points total is all relative to the strength of the league though. People continually cite last season's points total, but the league position is what I'm more concerned with. Before anyone says it I know the two are linked, but I would rather finish 4th with 67 points than 5th/6th with 71 points.

I'm more confident about the United game in a few weeks than West Brom or West Ham at home in December.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I hear your point but in fairness we've just upgraded a squad that finished 5th by a whopping 120 million quid, ( admittedly whilst losing a certain Welshman) It's hardly been shopping at poundland now has it?

Yep. Fair point it takes time to integrate the players, but I'm not having at the end of the season if people still use it as a reason why we didn't meet our targets. We've spent a fortune this summer. Last season I actually had sympathy for AVB as I don't think Levy helped him enough in the transfer windows.

 

[Mumorn]

Points total is all relative to the strength of the league though. People continually cite last season's points total, but the league position is what I'm more concerned with. Before anyone says it I know the two are linked, but I would rather finish 4th with 67 points than 5th/6th with 71 points.

I'm more confident about the United game in a few weeks than West Brom or West Ham at home in December.

To be fair, I've been like that the past 6 or so years. Always look forward to the big boys than some of the lower teams because of our tendency to raise our game.

 

[milo]

Yep. Fair point it takes time to integrate the players, but I'm not having at the end of the season if people still use it as a reason why we didn't meet our targets. We've spent a fortune this summer. Last season I actually had sympathy for AVB as I don't think Levy helped him enough in the transfer windows.

I agree. At the end of the season we should assess whether we have met our targets, whether the manager has integrated the new players and used them effectively and whether we are playing the type of football that will bring success. I think that aesthetics should also be a consideration and hopefully integrating the new players successfully will give us a cutting edge and make us easier on the eye.

 

[Yermiyahu]

I agree. At the end of the season we should assess whether we have met our targets, whether the manager has integrated the new players and used them effectively and whether we are playing the type of football that will bring success. I think that aesthetics should also be a consideration and hopefully integrating the new players successfully will give us a cutting edge and make us easier on the eye.

Agree totally.

 

[Robspur12]

NWND makes an excellent case, I don't get fans who think a top 6 place is acceptable I'm sure Levy won't. I am still unclear what the board saw in AVB to appoint him in the first place, no professional football career, not even an assistant manager job, in fact Spurs are the only club where he has been there a second season. Was he the only one who would work with a DoF? HOWEVER, he has earned the right to turn the situation around based on what he has achieved to this point.

 

[Robspur12]

I agree. At the end of the season we should assess whether we have met our targets, whether the manager has integrated the new players and used them effectively and whether we are playing the type of football that will bring success. I think that aesthetics should also be a consideration and hopefully integrating the new players successfully will give us a cutting edge and make us easier on the eye.

Unfortunately I think waiting until the end of the season is too late, if it is clear we will not finish 4th then I think AVB will be gone.

 

[screen nayim]

Unfortunately I think waiting until the end of the season is too late, if it is clear we will not finish 4th then I think AVB will be gone.

It's not easy to see from the East Stand but I'm sure I saw Danny's trigger finger starting to twitch on Sunday.

 

[milo]

Unfortunately I think waiting until the end of the season is too late, if it is clear we will not finish 4th then I think AVB will be gone.

I don't. I am 100% certain that AVB will be with us until the end of the season. If he does not meet his objectives for the season or the board do not think that he is the right person to take the club forward, he should go.

Short-termism is just about the only way to guarantee failing in football, especially when you cannot compete financially with the teams that you are competing with. We've down this road too many times before.

One or two good results and it'll all start to look very different. Where are the people now who were saying a month ago that United would finish mid-table or in preseason were saying that Mourinho returning to Chelsea meant that they would run away with the league?

 

[90291Spur]

NWND makes an excellent case, I don't get fans who think a top 6 place is acceptable I'm sure Levy won't. I am still unclear what the board saw in AVB to appoint him in the first place, no professional football career, not even an assistant manager job, in fact Spurs are the only club where he has been there a second season. Was he the only one who would work with a DoF? HOWEVER, he has earned the right to turn the situation around based on what he has achieved to this point.

You are sure based on what? Only those inside the club know what is acceptable in terms of this season.

And I do agree that we should see what AVB can do. I grew up on the 80's side and know what it is like to see football played the proper Spurs way AND win things.

 

[Papercut]

You are sure based on what? Only those inside the club know what is acceptable in terms of this season.

And I do agree that we should see what AVB can do. I grew up on the 80's side and know what it is like to see football played the proper Spurs way AND win things.

Yes but that was before the money men. You could build a team without it being ripped apart by the rich

 

[Robspur12]

I don't. I am 100% certain that AVB will be with us until the end of the season. If he does not meet his objectives for the season or the board do not think that he is the right person to take the club forward, he should go.

Short-termism is just about the only way to guarantee failing in football, especially when you cannot compete financially with the teams that you are competing with. We've down this road too many times before.One or two good results and it'll all start to look very different. Where are the people now who were saying a month ago that United would finish mid-table or in preseason were saying that Mourinho returning to Chelsea meant that they would run away with the league?

Disagree. If a manager is not right, he has to go rather than sticking by a misguided notion about continuity -just ask Sunderland about Di Canio or conversely West Ham who stuck with Avram Grant until he took them down. It's just that I don't think we are at that point with AVB yet. But if he fails to turn around our attacking form soon he will go and rightly so.

 

[milo]

Disagree. If a manager is not right, he has to go rather than sticking by a misguided notion about continuity -just ask Sunderland about Di Canio or conversely West Ham who stuck with Avram Grant until he took them down. It's just that I don't think we are at that point with AVB yet. But if he fails to turn around our attacking form soon he will go and rightly so.

I wouldn't use a 6 month and an 11 months tenure as examples of the folly of long term thinking or giving a manager the chance to build a side.