Are we now permanently locked out of the CL?

[Cochise]

I think we are looking at being locked out next year as UTD and Emirates Marketing Project will strengthen massively over the summer. Arsenal sadly know how to deal with the business end of the season and will always go on a winning run, whilst Chelsea will not falter whilst Mourinho is manager.

What happens in 2016/2017 is a bigger question as I think we will lose Eriksen and Lloris (if he doesn't get snatched off us this summer). Our problem always seems to be that we are in transition, even this summer we will be as Poch needs to ship out 7-8 players whilst bringing in and settling 3-4 new ones. What we need is a summer where our squad is kept almost the same, thus the 16/17 season is the best chance. The players that we get this summer will be settled, young players like Kane, Dier, Bentaleb and perhaps Pritchard will be established and our spine will have a young yet experienced look.

I also think that if any of those four teams lose their manager, they will suffer a fall. Despite what is said, Arsenal will falter when Wenger finally leaves, much like when Fergie left UTD, a new coach will come in and the players will not adapt to his ways. I can't imagine Mourinho staying at Chelsea for long with the way Abramovic is and even LVG leaving UTD will cause problems. We just have to hope that our young prospects develop well and hit a peak together and that that coincides with a calamity for one of the others.

 

[Superhudd]

You can tell the sun came out today.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If we cannot cope with EL games against mediocre opposition, why are we craving CL games which are infinitely more demanding and would impact much more on our league campaign???

It's what Phil Neville said who has played in both competitions has said ... Champions league means quality opposition earlier in the week with a short journey and decent facilities. Europa means 6 hours flights to play on a cows field against a side in somewhere you wouldn't send your worst enemy and you get home on a Friday to train for a Sunday If your lucky. That means the whole weekend away from the family rather than just Friday night

It's not the quality is the timing if the games mixed with the travelling. Last season at the end of our group stage we had traveled twice as far as Chelsea had in the champions league.

 

[Sandman]

another reason the Europa League is the poor relation. Maybe they should put fixtures on a different week to the Champions League. Allow it to be played on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, that or any league game that follows is on a Monday night to allow the teams to recover.

Remove the CL drop out teams. Raise the money for winning it so its worth winning or even competing. The choices are obvious, but its also obvious they dont want the Europa to even be half of what the champions league is.

Whilst the money for the champions league stays to far ahead of the Europe it will be the same old teams in it, year in and year out. We used to call them the Sky 4 when Liverpool were in it. They have got ousted by Emirates Marketing Project. There may be the odd occasion when a team does badly enough to drop out for a season. But because they have been in the CL for so long they will just spend to make sure they get back in it.

The actual Champions league winners is going the same way as well. One of Real, Barca, Bayern and 1 or two others every year in the Semi Finals. Its just boring and predictable.

 

[Pirate55]

It's what Phil Neville said who has played in both competitions has said ... Champions league means quality opposition earlier in the week with a short journey and decent facilities. Europa means 6 hours flights to play on a cows field against a side in somewhere you wouldn't send your worst enemy and you get home on a Friday to train for a Sunday If your lucky. That means the whole weekend away from the family rather than just Friday night

It's not the quality is the timing if the games mixed with the travelling. Last season at the end of our group stage we had traveled twice as far as Chelsea had in the champions league.

But the real question is WHO travels to these games. If we treated the early rounds as games to give our fringe squad players and youngsters games, then they are a good thing. Our first team should not even be on the plane. They should be on the training ground practicing (especially corners for and against!). If we manage to qualify for the later rounds we can introduce more first teamers as appropriate.

We have misused the Europa League instead of using it to our benefit. It is our own fault.

 

[milo]

But the real question is WHO travels to these games. If we treated the early rounds as games to give our fringe squad players and youngsters games, then they are a good thing. Our first team should not even be on the plane. They should be on the training ground practicing (especially corners for and against!). If we manage to qualify for the later rounds we can introduce more first teamers as appropriate.

We have misused the Europa League instead of using it to our benefit. It is our own fault.

 

[Raziel]

Permanently locked out is a strong statement

- Are the odds heavily stacked against us? = absolutely
- I chuckled at the people who think we are 1 or 2 players away, look at Manure = De Gea, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, RVP, Falcao. Without even going to the stupid "less talented/overpaid" players, consider how much those six cost, and impact on wages, and they would be happy with 4th.
- Pool is another example of how hard it really is, traditional big spenders, history, got themselves in the running, how long did it really last? and if they can't manage to keep Sterling, what does that say.

I think the club strategy needs to alter a little

- 5th needs to be our goal (and no to the "aim high" party line), we need to establish ourselves (and we have done a good job) as consistently best of rest.
- Then, if a sky 4 side has a poor year, and/or we have a breakout year, we are best placed to take advantage of it

The other part we need to completely relook at is Europe

- Hopefully UEFA will eventually stop the CL drop out brick, but even so, it's legitimately a route to CL and a Cup
- I really feel we need to leverage or build a Europa first 11 and stick with it (not a PL bench or form finding team), build a team of players that while yes can play PL as well, or suited for continental football.
- May need us to rethink our coaching strategy as well, as I feel a huge part of our Europe hangovers has been preparation vs. player fatigue (seen when we didn't play most of PL team, yet still seemed flat)

Short answer is we have to play the long game, stay financially well run, stay in the best of rest, focus perhaps a touch more on cups and be well placed for when the cycles change (when Wenger retires, if Manure fails to recover its dominance, etc.)

 

[SteveAWOL]

As much fun as our run to the Champions League last 8 was I'd still prefer to see Spurs end our quarter century wait for another FA Cup trophy.

However both of these achievements have become almost exclusively the preserve of the mega-rich clubs over the past couple of decades.

Just have to hope that someday the stars align and, combined with additional revenue from our new stadium, we'll break their stranglehold again...

 

[Baleforce]

Permanently locked out is a strong statement

- Are the odds heavily stacked against us? = absolutely
- I chuckled at the people who think we are 1 or 2 players away, look at Manure = De Gea, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, RVP, Falcao. Without even going to the stupid "less talented/overpaid" players, consider how much those six cost, and impact on wages, and they would be happy with 4th.
- Pool is another example of how hard it really is, traditional big spenders, history, got themselves in the running, how long did it really last? and if they can't manage to keep Sterling, what does that say.

I think the club strategy needs to alter a little

- 5th needs to be our goal (and no to the "aim high" party line), we need to establish ourselves (and we have done a good job) as consistently best of rest.
- Then, if a sky 4 side has a poor year, and/or we have a breakout year, we are best placed to take advantage of it

The other part we need to completely relook at is Europe

- Hopefully UEFA will eventually stop the CL drop out crud, but even so, it's legitimately a route to CL and a Cup
- I really feel we need to leverage or build a Europa first 11 and stick with it (not a PL bench or form finding team), build a team of players that while yes can play PL as well, or suited for continental football.
- May need us to rethink our coaching strategy as well, as I feel a huge part of our Europe hangovers has been preparation vs. player fatigue (seen when we didn't play most of PL team, yet still seemed flat)

Short answer is we have to play the long game, stay financially well run, stay in the best of rest, focus perhaps a touch more on cups and be well placed for when the cycles change (when Wenger retires, if Manure fails to recover its dominance, etc.)

we are one player away, he's a Welsh lad called Gareth ;-)

we tend to miss out by just a handful of points

 

[Raziel]

we are one player away, he's a Welsh lad called Gareth ;-)

we tend to miss out by just a handful of points

On a lucky season yes, add Gareth to our squad and have Kane/Eriksen similar to this season = probably
Injuries/suspension/form all evens it out.

See Manure, take away Mata, Di Maria, Falcao, but have a fit and in form RVP = title winning side (SAF's last season).
One great player could put us in the CL, but its a lot of risk

 

[Neymar]

Remove the CL drop out teams. Raise the money for winning it so its worth winning or even competing. The choices are obvious, but its also obvious they dont want the Europa to even be half of what the champions league is.

Whilst the money for the champions league stays to far ahead of the Europe it will be the same old teams in it, year in and year out. We used to call them the Sky 4 when Liverpool were in it. They have got ousted by Emirates Marketing Project. There may be the odd occasion when a team does badly enough to drop out for a season. But because they have been in the CL for so long they will just spend to make sure they get back in it.

The actual Champions league winners is going the same way as well. One of Real, Barca, Bayern and 1 or two others every year in the Semi Finals. Its just boring and predictable.

i made a suggestion in another thread, and its basically as follows:

instead of just giving the europa league winner a championsleague spot, i think they should give a ucl qualification spot to all of the 8 EL quaterfinalists. these 8 teams should be put into some of the earliest qualification rounds for the ucl, and not be seeded throughout the entire process.

i dont think this would damage (or take away from) the ucl at all, as teams that reach the EL quaterfinals are usually around our level. but the attainable and realistic carrot of 8 ucl spots would definitely add to quality and interest of the EL (you can be sure that teams like us, everton and liverpool will be taking it a whole lot more seriously right from the start of the campaign). it will massively help teams like us and valencia, who are top top euorpean sides that do not often get to qualify to the ucl, simply due to the strength and depth of the domestic leagues.

if 8 spots is too much, give 4 (the semi-finalists). considering that the epl, bundesliga and la liga each get 4 spots for the ucl, is it that preposterous to give 4 spots to the 2nd tier european competition? i don think it so. i would go as far as to suggest that its quite natural/fair. maybe 8 is too much, and giving 4 spots is more fair: 1 automatic spot for the el winner, and 3 qualification spots.

 

[Baleforce]

On a lucky season yes, add Gareth to our squad and have Kane/Eriksen similar to this season = probably
Injuries/suspension/form all evens it out.

See Manure, take away Mata, Di Maria, Falcao, but have a fit and in form RVP = title winning side (SAF's last season).
One great player could put us in the CL, but its a lot of risk

or one great manager, Fergie could win the PL with my veterans five a side team

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But the real question is WHO travels to these games. If we treated the early rounds as games to give our fringe squad players and youngsters games, then they are a good thing. Our first team should not even be on the plane. They should be on the training ground practicing (especially corners for and against!). If we manage to qualify for the later rounds we can introduce more first teamers as appropriate.

We have misused the Europa League instead of using it to our benefit. It is our own fault.

It still means the first team have a different routine to other footballers as in the Friday and Saturday night hotel stays, the time away from family etc... Plus the competition then becomes a mockery if be only send the kids then what's the point in playing

 

[Bedfordspurs]

i made a suggestion in another thread, and its basically as follows:

instead of just giving the europa league winner a championsleague spot, i think they should give a ucl qualification spot to all of the 8 EL quaterfinalists. these 8 teams should be put into some of the earliest qualification rounds for the ucl, and not be seeded throughout the entire process.

i dont think this would damage (or take away from) the ucl at all, as teams that reach the EL quaterfinals are usually around our level. but the attainable and realistic carrot of 8 ucl spots would definitely add to quality and interest of the EL (you can be sure that teams like us, everton and liverpool will be taking it a whole lot more seriously right from the start of the campaign). it will massively help teams like us and valencia, who are top top euorpean sides that do not often get to qualify to the ucl, simply due to the strength and depth of the domestic leagues.

if 8 spots is too much, give 4 (the semi-finalists). considering that the epl, bundesliga and la liga each get 4 spots for the ucl, is it that preposterous to give 4 spots to the 2nd tier european competition? i don think it so. i would go as far as to suggest that its quite natural/fair. maybe 8 is too much, and giving 4 spots is more fair: 1 automatic spot for the el winner, and 3 qualification spots.

There all nearly always in they champions league qualifiers anyway through their own leagues

 

[Pirate55]

It still means the first team have a different routine to other footballers as in the Friday and Saturday night hotel stays, the time away from family etc... Plus the competition then becomes a mockery if be only send the kids then what's the point in playing

That's the whole point. The first team are fully rested. The reserves and youth get a much needed competitive run out to prove themselves and get match time. With a squad our size it is a win-win no brainer. If we qualify for the knock out stage (as we should) great. If not, no big deal.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's the whole point. The first team are fully rested. The reserves and youth get a much needed competitive run out to prove themselves and get match time. With a squad our size it is a win-win no brainer. If we qualify for the knock out stage (as we should) great. If not, no big deal.

But our players are generally rotated for Europe anyway... None have complained of fatigue

What most complain about is the change of routine e.g staying a way Friday and Saturday to prepare for a Sunday 2 o clock kick off when your rivals have played already

The trips go outer Mongolia are a massive part of the problem but what I've heard ex pros complain about is the changes to everything that Thursday football brings

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I find European football boring because there are too many games, if they were just knockout games it would be far more exciting.

 

[Baleforce]

my feeling is it's an issue of prep time from the coaches not the fatigue of the players

the 2 tier thing might work if you pass it off to a second coaching unit as well

would cause confusion for players who end up playing in the other, or both, game/s as they will miss related sessions

 

[90291Spur]

We will be permanently locked out if we consistently drop points to teams we shouldn't - Toon, WBA, Stoke, Wigan etc. Pretty much every year at this time people talk about so and so strengthening next year and that this was out year. One year it might happen, but yet again this year we have no taken maximum points against teams we would due expected to beat.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We will be permanently locked out if we consistently drop points to teams we shouldn't - Toon, WBA, Stoke, Wigan etc. Pretty much every year at this time people talk about so and so strengthening next year and that this was out year. One year it might happen, but yet again this year we have no taken maximum points against teams we would due expected to beat.

The arsenal way is to always beat the brick teams

You do that and you will finish top 4