Are some races more succesful due to their ethnicity

[spitshine]

Even if we accept that the lack of black swimmers is down to social factors raised in that article, it is still clear the black people dominate many events where there are no barriers to white people such as sprinting. I find it hard not to put it down to black people just being superior genetically.

And Black people are very successful in the long distance events, obviously not the caribbean nations/north America, what is this attributable too, whereas European nations very rarely if at all win in these marathon events.

 

[Superted]

There are (for example) a lot of black people in a lot of countries in Africa, yet those countries are hugely underrepresented in sprinting events if race is the source of excellence in that field.

Is that not though because Africans have less access to high quality training and steroids supplements that the US system does (which bleeds to the Jamaican system).

 

[braineclipse]

Even if we accept that the lack of black swimmers is down to social factors raised in that article, it is still clear the black people dominate many events where there are no barriers to white people such as sprinting. I find it hard not to put it down to black people just being superior genetically.

And Brazilians are better at football, but because they're not a homogenous ethnic group no one jumps to the conclusion that this is because of genetic factors.

Which ethnic groups that dominate in various sports is at the very least a result of complex interactions of social, cultural, political, economical and biological factors. Unless this is a topic you're well trained in and have spent considerable time investigating what you're saying is at very best right for the wrong reasons.

And Black people are very successful in the long distance events, obviously not the caribbean nations/north America, what is this attributable too, whereas European nations very rarely if at all win in these marathon events.

I think it might have something to do with the baseline average distance covered on foot by people in various countries/regions.

 

[braineclipse]

Is that not though because Africans have less access to high quality training and steroids supplements that the US system does (which bleeds to the Jamaican system).

Why wouldn't that influence long distance runners and other sports?

 

[scaramanga]

And Black people are very successful in the long distance events, obviously not the caribbean nations/north America, what is this attributable too, whereas European nations very rarely if at all win in these marathon events.

Rarefied air.

Again, you're using the term 'black people' to cover an immensely disparate and geographically spread set of people. Jamaica doesn't produce a string of excellent marathon runners, countries in Africa which are a long way above sea level do. That's not race, that's geographical differences.

 

[Superted]

Why wouldn't that influence long distance runners and other sports?

I have no scientific backing for this, but my assumption is that the affect of training and steroids has on an event like the 100m sprint is greater than the affect it would have on say the marathon.

100m sprinters are like sports cars, they are exquisite pieces of machinery, finely tuned to squeeze off another 0.001 of a second to win the gold. Long distance running is (in my opinion) more mental and makes more use of GHod given, or evolutionary, strengths.

There will always be outliers - Sally Pearson being the whitest woman in athletics being the 100m hurdles champ for one.

 

[scaramanga]

I have no scientific backing for this, but my assumption is that the affect of training and steroids has on an event like the 100m sprint is greater than the affect it would have on say the marathon.

100m sprinters are like sports cars, they are exquisite pieces of machinery, finely tuned to squeeze off another 0.001 of a second to win the gold. Long distance running is (in my opinion) more mental and makes more use of GHod given, or evolutionary, strengths.

There will always be outliers - Sally Pearson being the whitest woman in athletics being the 100m hurdles champ for one.

Using the 2012 Olympics results (I don't really care much for athletics so I don't know much else) the marathon was won by a margin of 0.34% of the winning time - the 100m sprint was won by a margin of 1.25% of the winning time. I'd say that makes the fine tuning in a marathon runner more relevant, although it may be less obvious as the time is more spread out.

 

[braineclipse]

I have no scientific backing for this, but my assumption is that the affect of training and steroids has on an event like the 100m sprint is greater than the affect it would have on say the marathon.

100m sprinters are like sports cars, they are exquisite pieces of machinery, finely tuned to squeeze off another 0.001 of a second to win the gold. Long distance running is (in my opinion) more mental and makes more use of GHod given, or evolutionary, strengths.

There will always be outliers - Sally Pearson being the whitest woman in athletics being the 100m hurdles champ for one.

Cycling must be an entire sport of outliers then because I think doping had some impact on those 3 week long Tour wins Armstrong gathered up.

 

[spitshine]

Rarefied air.

Again, you're using the term 'black people' to cover an immensely disparate and geographically spread set of people. Jamaica doesn't produce a string of excellent marathon runners, countries in Africa which are a long way above sea level do. That's not race, that's geographical differences.

If a White UK athlete was to train all year round in an African climate, would they be as successful as the Kenyans etc

 

[Richie]

It really is just a by product of slavery. When you say 'black people' in regard to successful sprinters, you're really talking about people from the Caribbean/US whose ancestors were slaves. The difference is not a difference between races, it's a product of what was essentially cattle farming with people.

There are (for example) a lot of black people in a lot of countries in Africa, yet those countries are hugely underrepresented in sprinting events if race is the source of excellence in that field.

This is clearly down to aspects such as funding. How is someone from West Africa supposed to compete with the facilities and funding western athletes have access to?

 

[scaramanga]

If a White UK athlete was to train all year round in an African climate, would they be as successful as the Kenyans etc

From birth? I believe so, yes.

There isn't so much of a culture outside of those countries because it requires spending a huge amount of time training a long way away from an age so early that the competitor is probably too young to know whether they want to do that long term. It's too much investment for a no reward sport.

If, however, you live in rarefied air, there's no barrier at all to training in rarefied air.

 

[Superted]

Cycling must be an entire sport of outliers then because I think doping had some impact on those 3 week long Tour wins Armstrong gathered up.

I was going to mention cyclists but not sure how they fit in. You don't see any black cyclists do you? Maybe it goes down to their weight again, therefore being a drag on the bikes performance?

 

[Superted]

Using the 2012 Olympics results (I don't really care much for athletics so I don't know much else) the marathon was won by a margin of 0.34% of the winning time - the 100m sprint was won by a margin of 1.25% of the winning time. I'd say that makes the fine tuning in a marathon runner more relevant, although it may be less obvious as the time is more spread out.

Pretty odd way of looking at it. I'm pretty sure in the 100 m sprint you don't have too much strategy except run really fast. Long distance races are all about strategy.

 

[Richie]

If a White UK athlete was to train all year round in an African climate, would they be as successful as the Kenyans etc

I simply don't accept this. If this were true, it would already happen. UK and other western athletes had access to incredible funding in he run up to 2012, they could (and did) train anywhere they want in the world.

I agree completely with the idea that there is more diversity within ethnic groups than between them, but we're talking about the absolute peak of each discipline whether it be sprinting, middle distance running etc... and it seems there is a clear trend towards athletes of African origin.

 

[Richie]

From birth? I believe so, yes.

There isn't so much of a culture outside of those countries because it requires spending a huge amount of time training a long way away from an age so early that the competitor is probably too young to know whether they want to do that long term. It's too much investment for a no reward sport.

If, however, you live in rarefied air, there's no barrier at all to training in rarefied air.

Mo Farah moved to London when he was 8 years old from Somalia. Would you consider it a case that the early years are most important in these cases then?

Also, if environment is such a huge factor, surely it stands to reason that evolution over thousands of years of people living in those areas could give them advantages in certain disciplines?

 

[braineclipse]

I was going to mention cyclists but not sure how they fit in. You don't see any black cyclists do you? Maybe it goes down to their weight again, therefore being a drag on the bikes performance?

No.

Why wouldn't weight (if true) be just as much of an issue for long distance runners?

The obvious factor seems to me to be the availability (or lack of) proper roads and bicycles.

Pretty odd way of looking at it. I'm pretty sure in the 100 m sprint you don't have too much strategy except run really fast. Long distance races are all about strategy.

Long distance races, like cycling, is very much about endurance. Something that is heavily influenced by doping.

 

[spitshine]

This is clearly down to aspects such as funding. How is someone from West Africa supposed to compete with the facilities and funding western athletes have access to?

And if funding is the key and all things being even with access to funding and facilities throughout Africa to all, would they would dominate a sport like Tennis

 

[scaramanga]

Mo Farah moved to London when he was 8 years old from Somalia. Would you consider it a case that the early years are most important in these cases then?

Also, if environment is such a huge factor, surely it stands to reason that evolution over thousands of years of people living in those areas could give them advantages in certain disciplines?

Evolution? No. The human race has been around in its current form for about 100-200 thousand years. It's generally believed that we started to leave Africa around 100 thousand years ago. Evolutionary forking (in species with a gestation period and lifespan as long as ours) just doesn't work on that kind of timescale.

If you mean genetics (where an individual's traits can be predicted based on their parents' traits), then that will have some effect, yes but that's not to be confused with the trait of an entire race. Again, it's cultural/regional as much as anything.

As for Mo Farah (again, please excuse the brevity but I just don't get athletics), from a quick Google search it seems that he attended school here at 8 and was soon afterwards discovered as a running talent. So yes, I believe he had an advantage from his early years which served him well.

 

[SteveAWOL]

And Black people are very successful in the long distance events, obviously not the caribbean nations/north America, what is this attributable too, whereas European nations very rarely if at all win in these marathon events.

Have a read of this:

BBC Sport - East African runners: What makes them so dominant?

Evolution? No. The human race has been around in its current form for about 100-200 thousand years. It's generally believed that we started to leave Africa around 100 thousand years ago. Evolutionary forking (in species with a gestation period and lifespan as long as ours) just doesn't work on that kind of timescale.

If you mean genetics (where an individual's traits can be predicted based on their parents' traits), then that will have some effect, yes but that's not to be confused with the trait of an entire race. Again, it's cultural/regional as much as anything.

As for Mo Farah (again, please excuse the brevity but I just don't get athletics), from a quick Google search it seems that he attended school here at 8 and was soon afterwards discovered as a running talent. So yes, I believe he had an advantage from his early years which served him well.

Mo has a twin brother who was left behind in war torn Somalia. Apparently they both excelled at running and football as children but whilst Mo got to join his father (plus 2 older brothers) in the UK and thus had access to some of the World' finest sports facilities to hone his natural talent, his twin went to live with their gran in Djibouti and now works in IT.