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Anyone know employment law?

SpursLodge

SpursLodge

Nicola Berti
Mrs Lodge was told today that she's going to be made redundant and they're going to share her work up amongst the rest of the team. We believe it's a personal thing as the new boss has done similar to several of her friends as well recently. Surely if it's a genuine redundancy then everyone in her team should be told they are at risk of redundancy and then they decide who's best to do the new jobs that'll be created by the restructure?

Is there anything we can do to contest that it's not redundancy and that they just want rid of her?
 
Not an expert, but have a fair bit of experience in employment matters over the years. There are a couple of important issues here a) is her job unique? As you said, if there is more than one employee doing the same job, on the same level then it must be opened up to everyone. Generally you would seek a voluntary redundancy in this case. B) this is extremely important ! Is her work still going to be carried out ? Genuine redundancy means that the work/ position is no longer required due to a downturn or change in business. It is not sufficient to say that the work will be spread out amongst others as this is not redundancy, it is downsizing. In this case she is more than entitled to consider unfair or unlawful dismissal. Most employment tribunals will look at what the employer is trying to " get out of ".

Other things to take into account are, length of service ( is she under probation still etc ) , are there any vacancies at a similar level in the business ? ( if so, they have a duty to offer alternative employment) and lastly , has she had any performance issues, warnings etc that would lead them to want her out?

It is a very grey area so look at the important issues around will her work still exist, are there any vacancies etc

Hope this helps a bit
 
She's the only one that does her job so someone else will have to be trained to do her work, she's worked in other areas of the department so is probably the most versatile team member, her work is not disappearing and she has more than enough to keep her going for the full 5 day week. She's been there 5 years and has never had any disciplinary and in fact is due a bonus for her work in 2013. There's no other work available in the department but there is at least one temp and about 5 or 6 people that have been brought in in the last year that they could easily get rid of but they've picked Mrs Lodge, it stinks!
 
i have a good knowledge in this area from going through redundancy myself and having been the employee rep through two company wide re-org's & subsequent redundancies

NOTE - this is not legal advice and as such you should check everything with a trained professional and get advice from CAB

i would pretty much echo what is said above, and the law is very clear that redundancy is just that - her role needs to no longer exist for a redundancy to take place.
it sounds like it is a case that they have enough work for 2.5 people, but have three people employed and see redundancy as an easy alternative to get rid of her.
well, in this case the new role (it is a new role as the job responsibilities are changing) should be opened up so all employees can interview for the role.

(not for the "real life" bit)
that said, it seems they want her out, so if they did interview for the role, she is unlikely to get it and would face redundancy anyway. it sucks, but some people are just areseholes.

if the package is good, i would take it. im assuming it is greater than statuatory?
if you have in writing what you have said above (that they said her work will be spread out), then you are in a very powerful position to push for as much as you can get.

how long has been employed with them? you have to have been with the company for 2 years+ to go to a tribunal.
im assuming it is less than 2 years, otherwise it seems the company is very naive.
 
Sorry SpursLodge,

Living in Kenya for many years, I don't have any idea of employment laws there.

However, from what you have described, it looks like a very BOGUS decision.

I think the new boss has a hidden agenda. She is trying to get rid of your Mrs for a few reasons:

- She sees her as a threat to her own job. This happened to my daughter recently.
- She is trying to get her own person in.
- She is bonkers
- She is an Arsenil supporter.

I say fight it all the way.
And good luck.
 
thanks guys, she's been with them 5 years monkey, no package has been discussed yet, I would think they're trying to get away with statutory.


I seem to remember when I was made redundant a few years back, slightly different situation as my company was taken over. They kept one position from the 4 of us but put all 4 of us at risk of redundancy and then later on told us which one they were keeping on, surely this is what they should have done here as well as they can all do each others work so why have they decided to split Mrs Lodges work up and not split up other peoples work and give Mrs Lodge more to do.

I think we're going to speak to a solicitor about it soon, it doesn't seem right to me.
 
Getting sound legal advice is a must . Might set you back a few quid but the advice should recoup that for you.

I recently went through a similar situation where the owner decided he didn't like my advice ( very hard for a financial controller like me to let him justify buying a 600 k Lamborghini company car ! ) and he tried the ' push him out ' scenario.

I got great legal advice , gave him a chance to mediate, which he ignored, and now a judgment has been set down where he has to pay me a lot more than if he had just done the right thing.

To be honest it is hard to go through , but stick by your principles and you will come out a winner anyway.
 
Is she a Union? Or is there even a Union rep she could speak to, they love a gooos fight

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk
 
Notmegov said:
Is she a Union? Or is there even a Union rep she could speak to, they love a gooos fight

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk
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If she is that might be why they chose her. All other things being equal, one should always get rid of union members first, they always end up as trouble.
 
No union sadly.

The solicitor has told her to get them to confirm why her role was chosen and why nobody else has been put at risk and depending on how well they can justify it will depend on how we proceed. This is going to get messy.
 
Mr Lodge, please keep us upto date if thats ok, I do love an employer getting it straight back having myself losing my job because I suffered a bad accident and broke both ankles. (No I didn't jump of a shed and appear on you been framed). I left it all to my solicitor and got a sizeable payout for wrongful dismissal. Have since started up on my own, and doing ok. Employed my first person last year. :p So chin up, and go get'em.
 
I should have stepped up to the mark here, sorry. Truth is, I have the law degree but no knowledge of employment law as that wasn't one of the areas studied.

If you need any more information, I can try to look in to this for you, if you would like me to?
 
Superhudd said:
I do love an employer getting it straight back ........Employed my first person last year.
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I think this is the second time you've said something like this

One day you might find the shoe is on the other foot; you could make a jokey comment to an employee and before you know it they get a solicitor involved blah blah
 
SpursLodge said:
Mrs Lodge was told today that she's going to be made redundant and they're going to share her work up amongst the rest of the team. We believe it's a personal thing as the new boss has done similar to several of her friends as well recently. Surely if it's a genuine redundancy then everyone in her team should be told they are at risk of redundancy and then they decide who's best to do the new jobs that'll be created by the restructure?

Is there anything we can do to contest that it's not redundancy and that they just want rid of her?
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Go and talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau. It's free, impartial and you will be able to find out where you stand and her rights
 
Bullet said:
I think this is the second time you've said something like this

One day you might find the shoe is on the other foot; you could make a jokey comment to an employee and before you know it they get a solicitor involved blah blah
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lol, You insinuating that I will be an **** like a lot of people out there haha. No way, I have been on the wrong side of it and wouldn't do that to anyone. Not worth the hassle of sleeping at night. I have told my story to my employee and we are close enough as colleagues where they take the **** out of me haha. They certainly know should they not like something that they tell me point blank. Which he has a couple of times.. I guess its different trying to be on a similar level when the numbers get greater, but lets be honest a jokey comment isn't the same as the OP and what happened to me. So yeah, I hope all employers get it when they try to backdoor someone out of employment, just man up and do it the right way.
 
Superhudd said:
lol, You insinuating that I will be an **** like a lot of people out there haha. No way, I have been on the wrong side of it and wouldn't do that to anyone. Not worth the hassle of sleeping at night. I have told my story to my employee and we are close enough as colleagues where they take the **** out of me haha. They certainly know should they not like something that they tell me point blank. Which he has a couple of times.. I guess its different trying to be on a similar level when the numbers get greater, but lets be honest a jokey comment isn't the same as the OP and what happened to me. So yeah, I hope all employers get it when they try to backdoor someone out of employment, just man up and do it the right way.
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I'm not much of an 'old schooler' looking to bring back the ways of yesteryear as I think a lot of things are really good in 2014 life, but I wholeheartedly agree with our post above.

People spend a lot of their lives at and, especially in small SMEs, it is important to have a relaxed approach to everyday things. Unfortunately that comes down to recruiting people with the right personality to fit the business, which is quite a skill.
A lot of things happen in SMEs that would result in final warnings or sackings in larger companies. And the protection of a larger company is nice, but can be sterile. I have worked in a 12 person sme for 2.5 years and in time tempers get frayed, it's natural. In a large co I don't think half of us would still have a job.

Sorry, that's gone ot,


Op - did you say you have a lawyer? Pm me if not as my cousin has her own law business and specialized in employment law. Based in Sth London, C.Palace area.
 
I need some advice and have trawled the web but just need some confirmation so to speak.

Basically I got a job a while ago and had signed a contract. I now, two weeks before starting want to terminate the contract - yes I know it is unethical etc but so much has happened in the last two months (I had to work three months notice) that I do not want the job anymore - circumstances beyond my control. Now I had one of two choices, turn up on the first day and hand in my one weeks notice (it is one week in the first month) or notify the new company that I do not want the job and risk legal ramifications - which I dont think they would do as they havent really incurred any costs except for recruitment which is contingent on me starting and as I havent started - the company is not liable to pay the agency etc.

Anyone ever terminated a contract before commencing employment? if so, any ramifications?

Any advice would be helpful.
 
Don't know about legally but just give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they aren't going to force you to turn up for a week.

What you going to do job wise now? That sounded a sweet gig - wasn't it half and half between US and UK?
 
P.D. said:
Don't know about legally but just give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they aren't going to force you to turn up for a week.

What you going to do job wise now? That sounded a sweet gig - wasn't it half and half between US and UK?
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Between Colorado and here in UK. Its a good job but a great deal happens in three months during the notice period.

I have explained the situation to HR and told them that id welcome a meeting with the hiring Manager. I imagine it will be a nasty conversation to have and worst case ill tell them ill turn up for a week My current company have understood and said go ahead and do it then come back.
 
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