Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

No it isn't, and I and a few others on here said at the time that we were getting results despite our crappy performances rather than due to them.

Our football is even worse... And we defend poorer so it's actually a lot worse even though on paper it isnt

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

wow...hard reading but great post!!!!

what would you suggest needs to be done to make us more cohesive dubai???

1) Sack the medical staff, for one. The plague of injuries we seem to have every season is frightening. They might be good at saving lives, but keeping players fit is evidently beyond them. Find some better ones who don't need to rely on blood-spinning to keep our players from constantly breaking down. (And yes, I am aware that this may be heresy to some of the more rabid posters here, but honestly, no other team in the league operates with a full quarter of their players constantly out injured or nursing long-term problems like Dembele)

2) Give Paulinho a month off, he looks knackered and he's playing like ****.

3) Play the man we spent 30 million pounds on, Lamela. He's inconsistent as hell, but he's also shown he has a great eye for a through pass and he can dribble his way through defences quite well when on form. Play Lamela in the middle of the attacking midfield trio, with Chadli filling the inside forward role on the left (the role he nearly always played at Twente) and Lennon playing as a traditional winger on the right.

4) Get Soldado staying central more often. He comes too deep at times due to his frustration with our slow, laboured play, but that just makes it even harder for him to make any sort of goalscoring impact.

5) Play Sandro and Holtby together as our defensive midfielders, with Holtby given license to break into central midfield (imo, his best position) when necessary.

6) As soon as possible, drop Daws and play either Kaboul and Chiriches or Verts and Chiriches. If you're going for a high line, go for players who can run quickly and have a smaller turning circle than an oil-tanker.

7) Recall BAE. Screw personality clashes, and screw the fact that he's dropped off in the last year or so: he is a natural left-back, one we badly need. If we're not buying one in January, play him.

8) For hard away games or hard home games, play Capoue and Sandro together in defensive midfield. Capoue is surprisingly skillful for a DM, and his long passes could be key to making vertical transitions from defence to attack.

9) Buy a big striker in January. Anyone will do, just a big lump of a man who can bully defenders and get on to the end of crosses. Use him when we're struggling to break down teams like Hull and Cardiff: bring him on and aim crosses at him.

10) Never play Naughton at left-back again.

11) PRACTICE. ****ING. CORNERS.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Our football is even worse... And we defend poorer so it's actually a lot worse even though on paper it isnt

Agreed it's almost like I didn't want to sound like a whinger so haven't been overly critical this season because we have been playing some dire stuff almost exclusively all season but squeaked out results. Today was too much to take that was a very average Liverpool team that made us look like a league 2 side. I don't even think we had a proper shot on goal. The sad part is it isn't surprising at all I think many of us expected the shoe to drop eventually.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agreed it's almost like I didn't want to sound like a whinger so haven't been overly critical this season because we have been playing some dire stuff almost exclusively all season but squeaked out results. Today was too much to take that was a very average Liverpool team that made us look like a league 2 side. I don't even think we had a proper shot on goal. The sad part is it isn't surprising at all I think many of us expected the shoe to drop eventually.

Here we go again...why cant we give Liverpool and Rodgers some credit??

They are second after all so can't be that average

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'm not sure if we've talked before on Everton but I think a few people disagree with the point I'm about to make...but their new signings are all PL proven except for Gerard Deulefeu who has been introduced slowly.

Even us last season...the only regular starter that wasn't PL proven was Lloris who was introduced slowly and Verts, and it seems defenders can settle quicker and more easily from most cases if we study them. I really think it makes a massive difference. Everything else - all the poor traits we are exhibiting - can stem from that.

If that is the case, it merely reinforces the opprobrium being directed at AVB. Why did we trust him with 100 million pounds and his plans to bring in seven entirely foreign players with no experience of the league?

I can't imagine that Levy would consider anything less than top four or top six + a trophy acceptable. So he must have signed off on these transfers expecting AVB to deliver on those objectives. Which involves him quickly adapting the players to the system he wants and getting them acclimatized to the PL reasonably quickly.

That has not happened . If what you're saying is true, AVB has failed to get these players adjusted to the PL. And it is now the middle of December, almost at the midway point of the season. So, in that respect, surely he has failed: failed to get the players adapted to the PL, and failed to implement his own system with the seven(!) players he himself bought.

If he could not make these players adapt to the PL quickly enough, he should not have bought them in the first place. So, surely that means he's failed. Martinez saw his limitations in terms of blooding foreign players in the PL and bought locally, and Everton have reaped the rewards of that. We overstimated AVB's ability to forge a cohesive unit, and we are paying the price for that.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Here we go again...why cant we give Liverpool and Rodgers some credit??

They are second after all so can't be that average

they played us off the pitch what more is there to say? aside from Suarez who is a class above anyone we have would you say player for player they are better than us? I mean this is basically same team we have finished well above for past few seasons. They were also missing 2 of their best 3 players today.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

they played us off the pitch what more is there to say? aside from Suarez who is a class above anyone we have would you say player for player they are better than us? I mean this is basically same team we have finished well above for past few seasons. They were also missing 2 of their best 3 players today.

I would say they have improved their squad and are in a similar place to where we were 4 years ago. Right now yes, they are a better TEAM than us and have a very settled spine (who also have the advantage I would add of playing once in 7 days)

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Here we go again...why cant we give Liverpool and Rodgers some credit??

They are second after all so can't be that average

Liverpool are a great 'improving' team that are not average....table doesnt lie.

Cleveland has a point though.....we looked league 2 esc and liverpool will not have a better away day all season....a poor indightment on our club....the hope for me is we would see signs of progression this decemeber and the new year.....now it looks as if AVB wont last the week.

Liverpool deserve massive credit they were excellent today and have a genius in suarez...doesnt excuse the shambles from our team though.....nor avb who looks like he did a little while back near the end of his chelsea days....like a rabbit caught in headlights.

 

[Cochise]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We can give Liverpool credit, but this has been a growing concern for many over what now seems almost nine months (myself included). Yes we had a completely makeshift back four, but for me our midfield has been poor for a while with no one standing out.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I would say they have improved their squad and are in a similar place to where we were 4 years ago. Right now yes, they are a better TEAM than us and have a very settled spine (who also have the advantage I would add of playing once in 7 days)

I would agree they are better than us now, but I also think the way we setup and played today was shocking tbh we were lucky we didn't get beat even worse. We gifted them goals and chances they should have punished us even worse

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

If that is the case, it merely reinforces the opprobrium being directed at AVB. Why did we trust him with 100 million pounds and his plans to bring in seven entirely foreign players with no experience of the league?

I can't imagine that Levy would consider anything less than top four or top six + a trophy acceptable. So he must have signed off on these transfers expecting AVB to deliver on those objectives. Which involves him quickly adapting the players to the system he wants and getting them acclimatized to the PL reasonably quickly.

That has not happened . If what you're saying is true, AVB has failed to get these players adjusted to the PL. And it is now the middle of December, almost at the midway point of the season. So, in that respect, surely he has failed: failed to get the players adapted to the PL, and failed to implement his own system with the seven(!) players he himself bought.

If he could not make these players adapt to the PL quickly enough, he should not have bought them in the first place. So, surely that means he's failed. Martinez saw his limitations in terms of blooding foreign players in the PL and bought locally, and Everton have reaped the rewards of that. We overstimated AVB's ability to forge a cohesive unit, and we are paying the price for that.

What we will never know when there's a DOF, is who bought the players in terms of choice. I am not making excuses. AVB has made some terrible mistakes, and unfortunately appears to be someone for whom pressure brings out the worst…but there is little doubt in my mind that he never received the KEY players he wanted, and in turn, lost the key players of our our club two seasons in a row. My suspicion is that Baldini furnished him with a list of options and made heavy suggestions. The conspiracist in me would further ponder whether there is not a plan in place to bring in someone Baldini really wants. Levy has placed himself in the middle of a ****storm in so much as Sherwood is a powerful presence at the club, Baldini has a lot of power, AVB has a massive contract and we have a really strong squad. I suspect the final element is Lewis, who is suddenly taking a bigger interest because he wants a new stadium to boost our value.

I think this is sort of a fait accompli in so much as we have a strong strong squad and a powerful DOF who are designed to outlast a manager.

Honestly, any manager worth their salt would love to work with this squad right now because the likelihood is they'd win a trophy fast and turn it around in the league. Play Townsend, play Eriksen, play Adebayor, play Sandro…it could all start to work very very easily…

I feel for AVB. He obviously works very very hard, but he is cornering himself into a place where there are increasingly few excuses left…as I've said before, I would personally give him the rest of the season, but understand why he won't get it.

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Former Tottenham Hotspur midfielder Edgar Davids has criticised Spurs boss Andre Villas-Boas over the style of football that the Portuguese coach employs.

Only Real Madrid and Monaco spent more than the North London outfit during the summer, with the likes of Paulinho, Christian Eriksen, Roberto Soldado and Erik Lamela all arriving at White Hart Lane for significant transfer fees.

However, a number of Villas-Boas's big-money recruits are yet to yield the type of form justifying their price-tag, with the team hitting just 15 goals all season - three of which came from the penalty spot.

Consequently, Davids, who enjoyed a two-year spell at the club under Martin Jol, claims to dislike watching his ex-team based on the brand of football employed by the former Chelsea manager.

Speaking to Absolute Radio, the Netherlands legend said: "To be honest, I don't like watching Spurs. Do you know what I mean? How they play, I expected more. And if you have a manager that says he wants to play attacking football...

"I loved to see Everton play against Arsenal last week. I was like "Woah, I hope it's not the first time for Everton that they play like this!" Because I think it's a good thing.

"If I see Tottenham play I'm not that convinced. But at the end of the day it's all about results."

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

1) What did Pedro Pinto say
2) Redknapp for all his faults did something radical. For starters we tightened up at the back almost straight away. We then progressed from mid table to top four to people whispering about us challenging the Manchester two. Our level over the past decade before Redknapp was anywhere between 5th and 12th. If we talk about a manager getting players to the level they should be, then in reality we will have a UCL team given some of the players in our squad.
3) I don't advocate just sacking a manager after a poor run of results, but if there has been no substantial improvement in play over the course of a season and a half then what else can there be? I do think bringing in seven foreign players all at once and expecting an immediate return is wrong, however I do expect to see some signs of gradual improvement. I recognise that since City we have started to show signs but there are still plenty of parts of our game that are still nowhere near clicking and haven't been since last season.

Redknapp wasn't radical, he was brought in specifically because he wasn't and because we needed to get a talented squad merely playing to its level, let alone beyond that. And that is what he achieved. I think it's a fair enough statement to say he's not the man to make a team perform above and beyond their normal level - he even says he wanted Rodgers involves at England because it's not his forte.

And if we get any new manager in to build us beyond where we are now, they will have some shocking results and bad patches of form for sure.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

If that is the case, it merely reinforces the opprobrium being directed at AVB. Why did we trust him with 100 million pounds and his plans to bring in seven entirely foreign players with no experience of the league?

I can't imagine that Levy would consider anything less than top four or top six + a trophy acceptable. So he must have signed off on these transfers expecting AVB to deliver on those objectives. Which involves him quickly adapting the players to the system he wants and getting them acclimatized to the PL reasonably quickly.

That has not happened . If what you're saying is true, AVB has failed to get these players adjusted to the PL. And it is now the middle of December, almost at the midway point of the season. So, in that respect, surely he has failed: failed to get the players adapted to the PL, and failed to implement his own system with the seven(!) players he himself bought.

If he could not make these players adapt to the PL quickly enough, he should not have bought them in the first place. So, surely that means he's failed. Martinez saw his limitations in terms of blooding foreign players in the PL and bought locally, and Everton have reaped the rewards of that. We overstimated AVB's ability to forge a cohesive unit, and we are paying the price for that.

If we are taking it as just this season or these view months, then the argument of 'why did we sign foreigners if they weren't going to settled quickly' is fine. But if we are talking about the next 5 years, it's a sound strategy. We could have spent the Bale money on say 3 proven quality PL players and we will look better for it now, but have more gaps in the squad, less depth, and our ability to rectify them would be reduced.

In a years time, we will have 7 new players, all who have played in the PL before and know what it is about. And they would collectively be worth a lot more than the 100M to us going forward.

I really think it is a massive deal, to have foreign players who aren't experienced in this league. Obviously they aren't performing and it looks like the manager's fault but the scale of foreign imports we brought in means that they are all adjusting all at once. This could end up being like the Ramos sacking season, in that the basis for a great squad was there but it wasn't ready to perform yet. I think the club needs to be very brave, and if they are they could really benefit from the work they have already put in. If they do sack AVB, these players will start adapting soon anyway, because I think it's been underestimated how much of a factor that is.

I mean, there's been no real previous case of the level of foreign investment that we made for anyone to be able to say 'it should be working, therefore you have failed' because we simply don't know if it's possible to adjust all of these players at once, quickly. All we do know is players and thought leaders in the game saying it takes players at least 6 months to adjust.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think today was a lot about the injuries and also generally I think expectations were set too high, expecting top 4 with the amount of foreigners coming into the club. It had never been done before, in the way we went about it this summer. The board did great in getting them - people say 'why did they buy foreigners if they needed time to settle' and it's because long term, we've got some serious value there - but they should align realistic expectations to them. It may mean a season finishing 6/7th. Big whoop. We'll be fine.

Emirates Marketing Project finished 5th in their first season of oil money. Chelsea finished second in their first Roman year with foreigners like Crespo and Mutu not performing up to standard. We are looking to make a jump after selling our best player...from what it looks like another 5th place would have been considered failure. It's pretty lofty expectations and I don't think the answer is always to set targets so high and then being ruthless when you don't achieve them.

BoL, didn't you say at the beginning of the season that you thought we were title contenders? And were telling people in the elephant in the room thread that they were being silly for not considering us title contenders and that a lot of the faults people cited for that were common amongst the other teams?

I personally never thought we had a chance for the title this year. I didn't think we had a chance for top 4 either tbh, I would have been happy with top 6, looking at the long term.

The problem isn't even necessarily the results (though that us a huge problem). The problem is the manner of the performances. We ve genuinely gone backwards in our performances as the season have gone on. We didn't get thrashed by Arsenal or Chelsea. Then get smashed by city and Liverpool. We didn't play great against the crapper teams at the beginning either but we at least looked more defensively solid and were creating some chances. The defensive solidity especially has completely flown out of the window.

The home record is beyond terrible. It's now the joint 13th best in the league, with about 90 percent of the league having scored more and conceded less than us in their grounds so far.

I don't think people not expecting us to ship 14 goals vs Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project and West Ham without reply are expecting too much.

People are willing to accept transition if there is progress. People are willing to accept transition if there is some degree of performance. People are willing to accept transition if there is some degree of compromise from the manager along the way. And people are willing to accept it if the manager has pedigree doing that kind of thing.

And that is the thing. People like moyes or ferguson have history of taking clubs, rebuilding them as better units and better clubs. There is no history of AVB doing this. He joined an incredibly strong side, did very well and then left immediately. Got sacked from Chelsea and now here we are, 3 thrashings in, having scored less goals from open play at whl than Liverpool. Where exactly is the evidence that AVB is the man to root out the rot in the club? I was a huge supporter of his and still am not too sure if I want him gone but I don't see where this all comes from.

And the frustrating thing is that a lot of fans actually called this throughout the season (and some even last swason) and were shouted down pretty severely. People who said we'd start being on the wrong end of thrashings soon of we continued defending in the same way. That our attacking play looked poor and didn't look like improving.

It is also worth noting that nobody forced us to buy 7 foreign players from 6 different leagues speaking 6 different languages. Obviously they were in a better position with the best manager ever but after selling Ronaldo, man utd bought Valencia iirc. And that was pretty much it.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Redknapp wasn't radical, he was brought in specifically because he wasn't and because we needed to get a talented squad merely playing to its level, let alone beyond that. And that is what he achieved. I think it's a fair enough statement to say he's not the man to make a team perform above and beyond their normal level - he even says he wanted Rodgers involves at England because it's not his forte.

And if we get any new manager in to build us beyond where we are now, they will have some shocking results and bad patches of form for sure.

Ah come on mate, it's silly to say Redknapp had the squad playing to its level. In his three full seasons we finished 4th, 5th and 4th. That's in a time where City and Chelsea had bottomless pockets and Arsenal and United have been established in the top 4 for over 15 years. Redknapp did an excellent job even taking the two poor finishes to his last two seasons into account.

I feel for AVB. He seems like a decent man and an intelligent man. But he has to go. I lost faith after City. There was so much wrong there and the performance was such that you could see the writing on the wall. This nonsense about possession and control is fine in a world where statisticians and mathematicians could predict football matches but there are too many moving parts and variables to reduce it purely to that. I also believe AVB has no idea how to handle his squad. If he said that the summer signings left the squad unbalanced, he is right. However, that doesn't excuse his handling of the squad which has been really, really poor. There has been no consistency (particularly in the three players playing off our CF) and as a result, individuals have not performed.

He needs to be cut loose. I disagreed with Harry going but wanted AVB (especially over Moyes). However, he's failing and if we allow him to continue, he will fail some more. Southampton will beat us next week if AVB is our manager. The bounceback we had last time will not happen this time. He's like a deer in the headlights and needs to be moved on.

As great as Liverpool were yesterday, we made them look good. This is a Liverpool team, minus Sturridge and Gerrard, that hadn't won in four games on the road and had lost two weeks ago to Hull. I saw Swansea absolutely murder them for the last 30 minutes earlier in the season. They're a good side but they're nowhere near as good as we made them look.

Levy needs to act.

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I have slept on it and whilst im still furious and would love to knock a wall out - AVB has gotta stay actually - no viable alternatives out there. But no matter how he does, I think he should go at end of the season.

We may as well think of this season as a transitional one, im seeing as a transitional one now, its a shame as I had really high hopes this season which have all but been dashed.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I have slept on it and whilst im still furious and would love to knock a wall out - AVB has gotta stay actually - no viable alternatives out there. But no matter how he does, I think he should go at end of the season.

We may as well think of this season as a transitional one, im seeing as a transitional one now, its a shame as I had really high hopes this season which have all but been dashed.

Couldn't disagree more. There's no point in giving him more time. He's done. If we leave him where he is, we will get beat this weekend. How far do you leave us fall?

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I understand the sentiment behind keeping him til the end of the season. But to me that's not acceptable as his relationship with both the players and fans appears to have soured. Imagine if keeping him for longer made it imperative for certain players to leave?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

BoL, didn't you say at the beginning of the season that you thought we were title contenders? And were telling people in the elephant in the room thread that they were being silly for not considering us title contenders and that a lot of the faults people cited for that were common amongst the other teams?

I personally never thought we had a chance for the title this year. I didn't think we had a chance for top 4 either tbh, I would have been happy with top 6, looking at the long term.

The problem isn't even necessarily the results (though that us a huge problem). The problem is the manner of the performances. We ve genuinely gone backwards in our performances as the season have gone on. We didn't get thrashed by Arsenal or Chelsea. Then get smashed by city and Liverpool. We didn't play great against the crapper teams at the beginning either but we at least looked more defensively solid and were creating some chances. The defensive solidity especially has completely flown out of the window.

The home record is beyond terrible. It's now the joint 13th best in the league, with about 90 percent of the league having scored more and conceded less than us in their grounds so far.

I don't think people not expecting us to ship 14 goals vs Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project and West Ham without reply are expecting too much.

People are willing to accept transition if there is progress. People are willing to accept transition if there is some degree of performance. People are willing to accept transition if there is some degree of compromise from the manager along the way. And people are willing to accept it if the manager has pedigree doing that kind of thing.

And that is the thing. People like moyes or ferguson have history of taking clubs, rebuilding them as better units and better clubs. There is no history of AVB doing this. He joined an incredibly strong side, did very well and then left immediately. Got sacked from Chelsea and now here we are, 3 thrashings in, having scored less goals from open play at whl than Liverpool. Where exactly is the evidence that AVB is the man to root out the rot in the club? I was a huge supporter of his and still am not too sure if I want him gone but I don't see where this all comes from.

And the frustrating thing is that a lot of fans actually called this throughout the season (and some even last swason) and were shouted down pretty severely. People who said we'd start being on the wrong end of thrashings soon of we continued defending in the same way. That our attacking play looked poor and didn't look like improving.

It is also worth noting that nobody forced us to buy 7 foreign players from 6 different leagues speaking 6 different languages. Obviously they were in a better position with the best manager ever but after selling Ronaldo, man utd bought Valencia iirc. And that was pretty much it.

Yeah man, I absolutely said that if we kept Bale we could win the league, and that with our new signings following his sale I thought top 4 was very much on. I also said that our new signings would take a couple of weeks to start firing on all cylinders if I remember correctly :ross: needless to say, I got that badly, badly wrong.

To me, from looking at our previous managers during Levy's time, the thing that has brought them down is not having the right players for their system. So when Jol had Carrick, we were great. When he got replaced with Zokora, we looked worse. When we got Ramos, who liked the high energy pressing, we looked better. Then we sold Berbatov and Keane, and we looked worse. We give Harry his players, and we look better. I thought we looked poor in terms of our passing last year because we didn't have those types of players, we had Harry's type players. So I thought the fact we got AVB's types players would see us do pretty well, pretty quickly. Didn't work out that way.

There's no real study of a team signing as many foreigners as we have done to this league, and doing well. So I couldn't predict how much of an effect it would have on us. There's no telling what is realistic considering the scale of change we enacted.

The results are awful, but as I said on a previous page, we always have these extraordinary, ridiculous bad results and bad runs of form because we are trying to get to a higher level, which means we are trying to implement a system that gives us the competitive advantage to sustain everything. And when it isn't working, it looks really bad. When it does work, we will reap the rewards.

The foreign signing thing I responded to Dubai on, we signed a lot of foreigners and in a year's time we've done well because we've gotten good value. The alternative would be to sign less players but more proven quality...which means we would have done better now but in the future limited our ability to progress. The fact we now have such a strong squad could mean that if we come through the pain of this year, next year we could have moved up that level we wanted to get to.