Academy Graduates

[jimmyb]

Kasim was decent and I think could have been integrated into the first team squad had he stuck around. He left due to a dispute between the club and his father. My cousin played with Yaser in the Spurs teams going upto U-16 before being released and always said he was quality. Basically his dad was concerned that players like Bostock, Parrett etc who were bought as youth players for reasonably big money were being prioritised in terms of progression and so forth by comparison to players who had been with the club for years.

This was brought up at contract discussion time and they felt the club didn't give them the right assurances and declined the offer of a new 2 year contract and he left which was a shame.

Interesting.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Libero]

Interesting.

Thanks for the insight.

People will say he was badly advised but its all conjecture and opinions. I personally think he could have been part of the squad but at the time we had a midfield that included the likes of Modric, Krancjar, Huddlestone, Palacios etc and he could well have stagnated. Fact is that he has gone on and played for Brighton and Swindon and could make the step back up at some point in the coming seasons.

He wanted a chance to play regularly and be a proper part of a first team and he has done that so I doubt he has any regrets.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Kasim was decent and I think could have been integrated into the first team squad had he stuck around. He left due to a dispute between the club and his father. My cousin played with Yaser in the Spurs teams going upto U-16 before being released and always said he was quality. Basically his dad was concerned that players like Bostock, Parrett etc who were bought as youth players for reasonably big money were being prioritised in terms of progression and so forth by comparison to players who had been with the club for years.

This was brought up at contract discussion time and they felt the club didn't give them the right assurances and declined the offer of a new 2 year contract and he left which was a shame.

I've heard been said in the context of Rose too. The special treatment those three big money signings got over (generally better calibre) homegrown players apparently caused a lot of friction in the academy a couple of years back.

Hopefully lessons we've learned, as I've not heard of similar problems with the likes of Bentaleb, Veljkovic and Ceballos.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

The academy set up has been good for the last 5 years, all the players have been encouraged to care for the ball and develop their technique. Can't think of a player I've seen in that time that is one footed. This all happened when Tim Sherwood was in charge and so I suppose this must be rewritten by our Stalinist supporters. I hope we can continue with this development and hope a few of the players have the winning mentality which can make them top players.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The academy set up has been good for the last 5 years, all the players have been encouraged to care for the ball and develop their technique. Can't think of a player I've seen in that time that is one footed. This all happened when Tim Sherwood was in charge and so I suppose this must be rewritten by our Stalinist supporters. I hope we can continue with this development and hope a few of the players have the winning mentality which can make them top players.

Sherwood has never been in charge of the academy.

John McDermott has been head of the academy since 2005 (an Arnesen appointment?).

Alex Inglethorpe was then U21 coach from 2006-12.

They are the two guys who revolutionised our academy.

Sherwood took over from Ingelthorpe for 15 months (2012-13) after Inglethorpe got poached by Liverpool (this is now Ehiogu's job). Prior to that he was 'loans man' - he used to put our players out on loan and then go and watch them in action around the lower leagues.

 

[jimmyb]

The academy set up has been good for the last 5 years, all the players have been encouraged to care for the ball and develop their technique. Can't think of a player I've seen in that time that is one footed. This all happened when Tim Sherwood was in charge and so I suppose this must be rewritten by our Stalinist supporters. I hope we can continue with this development and hope a few of the players have the winning mentality which can make them top players.

Myth!

Sherwood was NEVER in charge of the academy and he didn't take on the role of head of development until 2010.

Other than Bentaleb, who joined as a 16 year old, the young players to have made it into the first team picture over the past five years will have been in the club's youth system since long before Sherwood even returned to the club. Besides which, Sherwood's role wasn't to run the academy. It was to oversee the transition between academy and first team. Essentially, that meant managing the U21 team and organising suitable loans for our young players. He has had nothing to do with the coaching of players aged 8-18 - the age at which their skills and philosophy are really learnt.

The people who deserve the praise for the turnaround in our academy are the academy head, John McDermott, and Frank Arnesen and Damien Comolli, who were tasked with revamping it after it had been so badly neglected under Sugar (especially our scouting network). McDermott, especially, has done a fantastic job. He has implemented a philosophy that prioritises technique over physique (Spurs' youth teams often have much smaller players than the opposition but also much more skilful). Ricardo Moniz also deserves a mention, because his coaching techniques still influence the academy philosophy long after he moved on.

As a consequence of all which, along with the unrivalled facilities of the new training centre, Spurs often beat their rivals to the best young players or simply identify players that other clubs ignored on account of their size.

So, please, if you're going to give credit (and it is certainly deserved), give it to the right people.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Yeah anyone but Sherwood

 

[jimmyb]

Yeah anyone but Sherwood

No. Nothing to do with being anti Sherwood.

Gutter Boy and I have merely presented the facts. Why can't you accept them?

 

[billyiddo]

Sherwood sortrd out loan deals and liased between the relevant parties from what ive heard - a good role amd one which would have helped our players, but not someone who should recieve the credit for the success of the academy as a whole.

Was he in charge of the next gen team btw?

 

[jimmyb]

Sherwood sortrd out loan deals and liased between the relevant parties from what ive heard - a good role amd one which would have helped our players, but not someone who should recieve the credit for the success of the academy as a whole.

Was he in charge of the next gen team btw?

He took over management of the NextGen team after Alex Inglethorpe left.

 

[billyiddo]

.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Sherwood sortrd out loan deals and liased between the relevant parties from what ive heard - a good role amd one which would have helped our players, but not someone who should recieve the credit for the success of the academy as a whole.

Was he in charge of the next gen team btw?

Some were successes - Walker, Townsend and Rose all had good loans.

Many were failures - Carroll (Derby, QPR), Kane (Norwich), most of Masons (esp. Lorent), Smith (Leeds, Derby) etc.

Most though just lacked imagination - 80% seemed to go to Swindon where his best mate is the chairman.


Sherwood took over the NextGen from Inglethorpe in November 2012 and held the post till December 2013. So a whole 13 months.

 

[billyiddo]

You can't really say who is and who isn't a failure when out on loan as there's more to it than simply playing playing well in the first team. It's a learning curve, not to mention there was more to the role than simply choosing where they went

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Love seeing young players come through and would love Mason to become a first teamer. We have done so much better in recent years and considering how many of our former players go on to make a name for themselves in the game and play professionally I imagine we are a draw for youth prospects.

I am friends with a Brighton youth coach, who by the way are looking for a new under 18 coach. He tells me a little about how youth football is run and that the clubs that run themselves properly know they need to produce their own players as it is the only sustainable way for lower league teams. That said Brighton in the last 3 seasons have picked up 5 released chelsea youngsters.

So players released from top clubs still have a chance, with the coaching a player gets at spurs they can still make a way for themselves in the game if they are lucky.

 

[Jordinho]

Love seeing young players come through and would love Mason to become a first teamer. We have done so much better in recent years and considering how many of our former players go on to make a name for themselves in the game and play professionally I imagine we are a draw for youth prospects.

I am friends with a Brighton youth coach, who by the way are looking for a new under 18 coach. He tells me a little about how youth football is run and that the clubs that run themselves properly know they need to produce their own players as it is the only sustainable way for lower league teams. That said Brighton in the last 3 seasons have picked up 5 released chelsea youngsters.

So players released from top clubs still have a chance, with the coaching a player gets at spurs they can still make a way for themselves in the game if they are lucky.

We even had two picked up by Liverpool. There's hope for everyone.

 

[rosenthal]

Both Ipswich and Swansea have also taken in youths we released in the summer

 

[the dza]

I wonder how much worse off we'd be if we didn't sign 'The Beatles' and played academy graduates in their place?

Caulker for Chiriches
Livermore for Capoue
Bentaleb for Paulinho
Ceballos for Chadli
Carroll/Mason for Eriksen
Townsend for Lamela
Kane for Soldado

I honestly think we'd have been a better team if we gave those players the equivalent playing time of the signings we made. And a coach like Poch would get far more from a team of hungry youngsters who really wanted to play for the club imo.

 

[mjc23]

Just Eriksen and Lamela are the ones who I'd still have liked. But it is a shame to see younger players stifled in their development at the expense of players who are not exceptional or world class.

 

[Cochise]

There would've been outrage on this board and on the streets had we done that. I will agree on Caulker, Livermore and perhaps Mason/Carroll for Paulinho but IMO Chadli, Eriksen and Lamela were all worthwhile buys and despite everything Bentaleb is getting games. We needed a striker to compete with Ade so Soldado hasn't really hampered Kane's development as the lad was our 3rd choice after Defoe left, which for an U21 isn't bad going. If Kane had become #2 choice straight away with the club having no #3, it may have been a lot of pressure on the lad. He has to push himself to improve but it's not the same kind of pressure as knowing that the club depends upon you.

 

[the dza]

There would've been outrage on this board and on the streets had we done that. I will agree on Caulker, Livermore and perhaps Mason/Carroll for Paulinho but IMO Chadli, Eriksen and Lamela were all worthwhile buys and despite everything Bentaleb is getting games. We needed a striker to compete with Ade so Soldado hasn't really hampered Kane's development as the lad was our 3rd choice after Defoe left, which for an U21 isn't bad going. If Kane had become #2 choice straight away with the club having no #3, it may have been a lot of pressure on the lad. He has to push himself to improve but it's not the same kind of pressure as knowing that the club depends upon you.

I agree, and I certainly wasn't clever enough to make the call at the time; only with the benefit of hindsight can I form the opinion that we wouldn't have been any worse off had we just given the youngsters listed the game time that the signings have had.

I think there's a lesson in there for the club and us fans too though. Why bother buying middling squad players for around the £10m mark (Capoue, Chiriches etc.) when we can just give our youngsters a go? We should have more confidence in them, coz they have shown that they are at least the equal of these types of buys. And that frees up more funds for us to try and make the odd star purchase (which is still no guarantee of course).

I'd love to see us play with a big core of academy products and other players who we bought at a young age and who trained on with the club (people like Walker, Rose etc.)