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Son Heung-Min

Benny_Lad said:
Terrible quite often? The goal aside, he was most definitely poor yesterday but I actually think he is decent most of the time with the odd rotter thrown in.

If you cant warm to this guy (always gives 400%, never moans, and puts the ball in the net often) then you seriously take a lot of winning over! Needless to say I warm to him with ease.
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I find there are many games where he absolutely does my head in.

When he is on it he can be brilliant, but he just cant play that way consistently. I find there are many games where he just doesnt effect the game at all, miss places passes, loses shape, holds the ball instead of passing and then loses it - its like he is playing his own game. It happens quite a lot, and Ill be cursing him, and then he'll pop up with a goal and I think for most all the rest is suddenly forgotten.

Whereas for me it just frustrates the hell out of me.

Clearly he has a lot of talent, and he has shown he can be incredible on his day. I just feel he has too many off days and its really annoying. And I think thats why he isnt a certain first team player, you never know what you are going to get.
 
A bit like Alli, Son often tries the spectacular and somewhat high risk move. When that doesn't work out it looks a bit poor, when several of those in a row don't work out it can be frustrating.

But when it does work it's usually very effective. Game changing stuff.

I think he's proven himself effective enough that he deserves our patience even when things don't quite work out in a game. Particularly given his work rate, attitude and versatility.

Notv saying he's as good as Alli btw. Just some similarities I point out. Just how outstanding Alli, Eriksen and Kane are is really the only reason Son isn't starting every gave.
 
scaramanga said:
I think the way it works is that he calls them up, tells them to fudge off and then gets on with his life in the civilised parts of the world that don't have military service.
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That's a fantastic idea, if his aim is to never be able to publicly show his face in South Korea again. :p Long story short, although the topic of military service is a politically sensitive one (and its abolishment is gaining in popularity), from what I've been told, South Korean society is still fundamentally structured around the idea that every able-bodied male serves in the military for the required two years. Every able-bodied male - regardless of status. And even if you're not able-bodied, you're required to serve in alternate ways. It's very much a rite of passage for twenty-something South Korean males - a societal obligation that everyone goes through.

Correspondingly, people who try to dodge military service are pretty thoroughly vilified, and this is *especially* true for celebrities. The few who have tried it have suffered immense amounts of of public opprobrium - thus, the rest have accepted it, and usually serve their two years. This is true for everyone from boy band/Kpop stars to popular actors in TV dramas, E-Sports professionals and Psy. And, of course, sports stars - including football stars who can't get the exemption via winning a medal at the Asian Cup/Olympics/World Cup. Thus, it will probably also apply to Son.

From what I can gather, there are some means of serving that don't involve active service in a combat/support arm - the military runs a football team in Seoul, for example, and Son can spend two years playing for that team and fulfill his obligations that way. So it isn't like he'd be stuck in a trench on the 38th parallel for two years. But I think him going off to military service is pretty inevitable unless he wins a medal - I'm just not sure when that will be.
 
Said it before and i will say it again Son is one of those players who you never know what you are going to get from him, he has moments of brilliance in some games quickly followed by a mistake.

He is what he is but he must be a nightmare for opposition players as they never know what he is going to do.
 
Also, I remembered that Arse also had a South Korean a while back - Park Chu-Young - so I googled him to find out if he had to go back to do his military service.

The relevant section on Wiki says this:

'In October 2011, Park announced that in two years time he had to leave Arsenal to do military service for his country, which may have delayed his football career. Then the following year in March, South Korea's Military Manpower Administration announced that Park could delayed his military service until 2022 because of his residency in Europe. Park's decision to delay his military service was controversial and caused public criticism. This lead an apology from Park, though this allowed him to participate in the London Olympic Games.'

Occasional Engrish aside, that's fairly clear-cut. He had to do military service, their military conscription organization allowed him to delay it by ten years, and he accordingly saw out his career in Europe and is now at FC Seoul in Korea - presumably, he'll have to do it in four years' time, when he's 36/37.

However, it caused public criticism and forced him to publicly apologize for taking that route. And I'm not sure if Son will want to do that - he's far more popular (iconic, really) in South Korea than Park Chu-Young ever was, and the backlash from him going down that route would presumably be a lot bigger.
 
Quarters in the wc or win the Asian championship, they won it when ze Germans didn't give him permission to leave, so his peers won't have to do it
 
r-u-s-x said:
Quarters in the wc or win the Asian championship, they won it when ze Germans didn't give him permission to leave, so his peers won't have to do it
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True - his last chances to do that before he turns 28, though, will be next July at Russia 2018 and then the Asian Games in Jakarta and Palembang - in August/September.

Otherwise, it seems like he'll either have to go off to military service or be granted an extension of the deadline to serve - which would be ironic considering that Ki Sung-Yeung got a medal and doesn't have to do it, but Heung-Min Son, f*cking 'Sonaldo', does because Leverkusen were f*ckwits about it.
 
You would think sports stars would have an option to postpone it for a few years rather than having to leave their sport when in their prime.
 
Lucky to have him and despite his flaws and at time irritating error prone games, he is also mercurial equal amounts of the time. What did he get last season? 22 in all comps I think? Not bad at all for someone who isn't a consistent starter. Great to have on the bench as a game changer and great to start with if he is on hot form. Glad we signed him and he seems to really enjoy playing for the club.
 
DubaiSpur said:
True - his last chances to do that before he turns 28, though, will be next July at Russia 2018 and then the Asian Games in Jakarta and Palembang - in August/September.

Otherwise, it seems like he'll either have to go off to military service or be granted an extension of the deadline to serve - which would be ironic considering that Ki Sung-Yeung got a medal and doesn't have to do it, but Heung-Min Son, f*cking 'Sonaldo', does because Leverkusen were f*ckwits about it.
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Maybe someone as iconic as Son telling them publicly where to stick their outdated rituals will be the tipping point that turns the new generation against it.
 
parklane1 said:
Said it before and i will say it again Son is one of those players who you never know what you are going to get from him, he has moments of brilliance in some games quickly followed by a mistake.

He is what he is but he must be a nightmare for opposition players as they never know what he is going to do.
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It’s a great asset and for all the little mistakes he manages to get a goal every 90 minutes almost
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s a great asset and for all the little mistakes he manages to get a goal every 90 minutes almost
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Son is a talented finisher but not quite that prolific!

He is averaging a goal every 179 minutes since signing for us...

20 goals in PL from 72 appearances (42 starts, 30 from bench) over 3677 mins
2 goals in CL from 9 appearances (8 starts, 1 from bench) over 598 mins
3 goals in EL from 9 appearances (6 starts, 3 from bench) over 556 mins
7 goals in FAC from 8 appearances (8 starts, 1 from bench) over 692 mins
0 goals in LC from 3 appearances (2 starts, 1 from bench) over 196 mins

https://www.transfermarkt.com/heung-min-son/
 
Not sure what the debate is

- He's about as good an AM you will find (how many AMs in the PL last season hit 20 goals in all comps?, how many ever?)
- Especially considering he seems to accept being rotated, and making lots of sub appearances
- Likeable guy, obviously popular in the dressing room.

He's direct, two footed, scores and adds pace to the side when involved (exactly what we need)

If his short passing game was better and he was a touch more prolific, he'd be a $70M+ player in todays market

No team is made up of 11 perfect, flawless players. Son to me is a lot more now that I expected when we bought him or even after first season.
 
scaramanga said:
Maybe someone as iconic as Son telling them publicly where to stick their outdated rituals will be the tipping point that turns the new generation against it.
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Eh. You have to remember that South Korea is in a state of suspended war with the North, and always has been. The 'outdated rituals' were an imposition by the unbelievably corrupt, authoritarian military government a few decades ago...but they've stayed around and stayed popular because people (just about) feel like the threat their country faces makes keeping conscription around worth it. Most modern militaries do not need large armies anymore - the widespread availability of stand-off weaponry and the fact that nuclear weapons set 'red lines' for the survival of large nations that no other nation can feasibly cross makes large land forces largely obsolete. But the *one* place where that might not be the case would be on the Korean peninsula - there, the fact that the South Korean capital is so close to the DMZ makes a large South Korean army necessary to prevent the North from using their sheer mass to advance into the capital should war break out. ROKAF and American airpower would stop them getting much further than that, but Seoul might fall in the initial assault - a large South Korean army offsets that possibility. It's a defensive need that arguably doesn't exist anywhere else, but it is there. And the South Korean public (just about) understand that.

In that sense, Son forcing the issue has only a small chance of convincing South Koreans to change their 'outdated' law. It has a far larger chance of getting Son socially vilified, called a traitor or an ungrateful South Korean unwilling to defend his country - and it could well result in him being unable to show his face in South Korea again.
 
Rorschach said:
You would think sports stars would have an option to postpone it for a few years rather than having to leave their sport when in their prime.
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They sort of do - they have options not available to the ordinary bloke on the street, as far as I can tell. As I mentioned, Park Chu-Young asked for and received a 10-year extension to the deadline to serve, which allowed him to close out his career in Europe and return to South Korea (and I think he still has five years before he has to report for duty). And footballers in particular will probably be given the option of playing for the military football club in South Korea (Sangju Sangmu FC, I think it is) for the required two years.

The former option would allow Son to close out his own career in Europe before returning to fulfill his obligations - but his age would mean that he wouldn't have the option of playing for Sangju Sangmu, and he'd probably have to slop it in the barracks with the other conscripts (or do something not related to football, at least). And it would be a deeply unpopular move - at least, judging by the public opprobrium that Park Chu-Young apparently received. The latter would allow him to spend his two years playing football at K-League level in reasonable comfort (at least, as far as a military life goes), but he'd have to do it before he turns 28, which doesn't leave him much time.
 
scaramanga said:
Maybe someone as iconic as Son telling them publicly where to stick their outdated rituals will be the tipping point that turns the new generation against it.
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Hardly an outdated ritual considering who their next door neighbor is.

Imagine Scotland as a Kim lead nuclear power publicity stating that the destruction of England was a primary national objective.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Eh. You have to remember that South Korea is in a state of suspended war with the North, and always has been. The 'outdated rituals' were an imposition by the unbelievably corrupt, authoritarian military government a few decades ago...but they've stayed around and stayed popular because people (just about) feel like the threat their country faces makes keeping conscription around worth it. Most modern militaries do not need large armies anymore - the widespread availability of stand-off weaponry and the fact that nuclear weapons set 'red lines' for the survival of large nations that no other nation can feasibly cross makes large land forces largely obsolete. But the *one* place where that might not be the case would be on the Korean peninsula - there, the fact that the South Korean capital is so close to the DMZ makes a large South Korean army necessary to prevent the North from using their sheer mass to advance into the capital should war break out. ROKAF and American airpower would stop them getting much further than that, but Seoul might fall in the initial assault - a large South Korean army offsets that possibility. It's a defensive need that arguably doesn't exist anywhere else, but it is there. And the South Korean public (just about) understand that.

In that sense, Son forcing the issue has only a small chance of convincing South Koreans to change their 'outdated' law. It has a far larger chance of getting Son socially vilified, called a traitor or an ungrateful South Korean unwilling to defend his country - and it could well result in him being unable to show his face in South Korea again.
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All of which is fine by me. There are far more important things at stake and he's needed here to fulfill them
 
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