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Ross Barkley

scaramanga said:
Even those that rate him in this thread admit that he doesn't use his brain.

His defensive efforts are non-existent, his decision making is wrong more than it's right, he regularly runs into blind corners and gets dispossessed. Even his fans are saying that he'll be good if we can get him to drop that from his game.

So it's not just my opinion, it's that of plenty of other Spurs fans, every Everton fan I've ever heard from and it's backed up by statistics. The only people who don't seem to share that opinion are the likes of Shearer and his "English = better" lot.

As you mention him, Bale cost £5m up front from memory - in today's money around £15m. And Bale was much, much better when he was at SCBC than Barkley is now, probably better than he ever will be.
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There is no way you can say Bale was a much much better player, he was 17 and playing in the championship vs Barkley who has established himself in the PL, you can't even compare the two situations I was just using that as an example of paying for potential - it was a lot at the time for a 17 year old who's highest level was the Championship.

As for Barkley you don't create the number of chances he does if you don't have some form of footballing brain. Yes he is rough around the edges, but to just dismiss him as being pretty much brainless footballing wise is ridiculous considering his obvious ability....
 
As I have said before Barkley's issue could just as easily be over confidence as it is a lack of using his brain. The fact that he mixes some fantastic goal scoring chances with dribbles into dead ends shows that he can see the pass. Perhaps he just needs to be instructed to do the simple thing and lay it back if there isn't a key pass available?

I also don't think that Pochettino's system is as hard to learn as some of you on here do. I think the beauty of the system is that it is quite easy for a player to pick up. The game plan is quite formulaic and therefore doesn't actually require much brain power. Just good physicality when out of possession and good touch when in possession, which I think Barkley has.
 
scaramanga said:
I don't think the total score is nearly objective enough as a measure. Far better to take the raw data and discuss from there IMO.
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Ok... I just looked and compared passing and dribbles:
Here
Interesting that he compares favorably to Lamela here in terms of dribbling and passing and I don't think people describe Lamela as lacking a brain?
 
scaramanga said:
As you mention him, Bale cost £5m up front from memory - in today's money around £15m. And Bale was much, much better when he was at SCBC than Barkley is now, probably better than he ever will be.
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Wonder how many people you'll get to bite at that monstrous joke of a statement, you scamp.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
I know where @scaramanga is coming from. Bale looked like he was destined for greatness. Barkley is way more harmony hairspray.
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I'd disagree with that. Bale looked like a genuine wonderkid and a real coup when we signed him, but then he spent two years having that stupid winless curse on his back, and looked shakier and shakier during that time until he was on the verge of being loaned out to Brum in 2010 (the Jan window). It was sheer luck that Benny got injured and Harry was forced to keep him around as cover - and that he then decided to pay him on the wing once Benny returned.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'd disagree with that. Bale looked like a genuine wonderkid and a real coup when we signed him, but then he spent two years having that stupid winless curse on his back, and looked shakier and shakier during that time until he was on the verge of being loaned out to Brum in 2010 (the Jan window). It was sheer luck that Benny got injured and Harry was forced to keep him around as cover - and that he then decided to pay him on the wing once Benny returned.
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Exactly
Redknapp would have sold him if he had a sweetener to do so

And one BIG thing for me with Barkley is if he came here he would be playing with intelligent footballers rather than strikers like Lukaku and Kone, or midfielders like McCarthy. I think he would relish playing with more intelligent players and one show can actually move too
 
scaramanga said:
Even those that rate him in this thread admit that he doesn't use his brain.

His defensive efforts are non-existent, his decision making is wrong more than it's right, he regularly runs into blind corners and gets dispossessed. Even his fans are saying that he'll be good if we can get him to drop that from his game.

So it's not just my opinion, it's that of plenty of other Spurs fans, every Everton fan I've ever heard from and it's backed up by statistics. The only people who don't seem to share that opinion are the likes of Shearer and his "English = better" lot.

As you mention him, Bale cost £5m up front from memory - in today's money around £15m. And Bale was much, much better when he was at SCBC than Barkley is now, probably better than he ever will be.
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Strangely the Everton fans I know who go thiught he was brilliant and were combating hi stats with allis for half of last season.... now he wants to leave they think siggurdson is better and they dont have him yet
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'd disagree with that. Bale looked like a genuine wonderkid and a real coup when we signed him, but then he spent two years having that stupid winless curse on his back, and looked shakier and shakier during that time until he was on the verge of being loaned out to Brum in 2010 (the Jan window). It was sheer luck that Benny got injured and Harry was forced to keep him around as cover - and that he then decided to pay him on the wing once Benny returned.
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Not for me, he just had to overcome some hurdles. So according to your story, he became world class through sheer luck? He would have made it even if Redknapp did sell him.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Not for me, he just had to overcome some hurdles. So according to your story, he became world class through sheer luck? He would have made it even if Redknapp did sell him.
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It's difficult to argue counterfactuals, but I really don't know if Bale would have become the player he did if he ended up being sold on to Brum at the end of a loan spell in 09/10. What made Bale was playing under the lights at the Lane, combining with team-mates like Modric, VDV, Azza and Ade, ripping apart Inter in the Champions League (twice), becoming the focal point of the team under AVB and competing at the top end of the league and in Europe for three and a half memorable, star-studded seasons.

Conversely, all the motivation and drive in the world can't help you if you're stuck playing in defense for Alex McLeish - hoofing the ball sixty yards and being bluntly told to punt it to Zigic on the rare occasions when you're brought on to replace Liam Ridgewell at left-back.

Do you think Bale would have gone on to become the player he did in that scenario? I highly doubt it. I suspect that he'd have become somewhat like James McClean - maybe a bit more skillful by virtue of his innate talent ,but still very much the journeyman pottering around the lower end of the league, being renowned for pace and physicality (read: running in a straight line really fast and getting stuck in at the end of it) but not much else.
 
scaramanga said:
Surely there has to be a financial limit to that ambivalence though?

At £20m that's a perfectly acceptable risk, at the kind of prices Everton want that's a huge chunk of any normal team's transfer budget.
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You are right, but I think that is a decision for the transfer committee to make. Poch will have his own assessment of what price he would be willing to go to and also what wage, as this will impact squad harmony amongst other things.

I guess what I am saying is that I think Poch has done enough to warrant taking more of a risk with his desires than we would have done previously. I would back his assessment over pretty much anyone elses. I sincerely doubt that he would say get Barkley at all costs, as otherwise I think we would have made a bid already.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Strangely the Everton fans I know who go thiught he was brilliant and were combating hi stats with allis for half of last season.... now he wants to leave they think siggurdson is better and they dont have him yet
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Interesting how some people claim he does not have a brain but last season he managed to create more chances than any other English player in the league
 
NaijaSpurs said:
Interesting how some people claim he does not have a brain but last season he managed to create more chances than any other English player in the league
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Digging deep there ;)

That's like saying being a full international for England is a sign of quality.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
Interesting how some people claim he does not have a brain but last season he managed to create more chances than any other English player in the league
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It's just people's opinions but the stats don't lie

And as I've said previously, he has been playing with some awful players
 
scaramanga said:
Even those that rate him in this thread admit that he doesn't use his brain.

His defensive efforts are non-existent, his decision making is wrong more than it's right, he regularly runs into blind corners and gets dispossessed. Even his fans are saying that he'll be good if we can get him to drop that from his game.

So it's not just my opinion, it's that of plenty of other Spurs fans, every Everton fan I've ever heard from and it's backed up by statistics. The only people who don't seem to share that opinion are the likes of Shearer and his "English = better" lot.

As you mention him, Bale cost £5m up front from memory - in today's money around £15m. And Bale was much, much better when he was at SCBC than Barkley is now, probably better than he ever will be.
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You often post on here about how much you hate Liverpool and many of its people. Do your feelings about Ross Barkley come from a similar place?
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
You are right, but I think that is a decision for the transfer committee to make. Poch will have his own assessment of what price he would be willing to go to and also what wage, as this will impact squad harmony amongst other things.

I guess what I am saying is that I think Poch has done enough to warrant taking more of a risk with his desires than we would have done previously. I would back his assessment over pretty much anyone elses. I sincerely doubt that he would say get Barkley at all costs, as otherwise I think we would have made a bid already.
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Maybe we haven't bid because it currently looks fruitless. If Everton are saying £40-£50M whats the point of bidding £20M. The only card left to play is the ticking clock (which obviously could work against us) and see if the price budges as it counts down.

I'm also pretty sure n0-one else is that keen as the clubs with money would have just tied this up asap. To them the fee at say £40M and 125,000 a week is not that heavy for them.
 
If there are concerns about either his price or his ability I figure there are other players playing professional football on this earth, there has to be somebody within our budget that Poch is happy with us.
 
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