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Christian Eriksen

Unfortunately, considering our circumstances, this is the way we have to go.

Us being a seen a 'stepping stone' isn't necessarily a terrible thing. Of course we want to be holding onto our best players at all times but sadly that's unrealistic. Bigger boys can offer bigger ambitions, bigger wages and bigger prestige that we just can't compete with. Absolutely no shame in that. What's more important is that we have a reputation of being a bastard to do business with. Clubs may know they can buy our best players, but it's absolutely going to cost them.

Essentially we're running a very effective business model in order to reach a similar status of the big clubs. If Eriksen keeps performing then he will be sold in the future, for a huge fee, that will then again be re-invested in the squad. The same with Carrick, the same with Berbatov, the same with Modric and the same with Bale. Every time we sell a great player, another one replaces them and the cycle continues.

It's massively irritating but ultimately it's the best way for us

The problem with this being that we buy potential or players no-one wants to take a risk on, they then fulfill their potential and become world class and get a big money move. Because of our current status, we can't replace world class with world class, so we replace with more potential which then again takes time to fulfill. We'll never have a team of more than 3 maybe 4 players who are playing to their full potential, and for this reason I don't think we will ever break the top 4 until we start holding on to those who fulfill their potential.
 
The problem with this being that we buy potential or players no-one wants to take a risk on, they then fulfill their potential and become world class and get a big money move. Because of our current status, we can't replace world class with world class, so we replace with more potential which then again takes time to fulfill. We'll never have a team of more than 3 maybe 4 players who are playing to their full potential, and for this reason I don't think we will ever break the top 4 until we start holding on to those who fulfill their potential.

But even Arsenal, CL regulars, once in a while title contenders, way more money than us are forced to sell. They didn't want to lose players like Fabregas, Nasri, van Persie or even Clichy. "start holding on to those who fulfill their potential" really just sounds utterly unrealistic to me. This to me is like saying that Dawson has to become quicker, or Lennon has to become taller.

The point must be that a replacement player isn't signed when we lose a top class player, the replacement must (most of the time) already be settled or settling at that point, already be on the way up and forward.
 
But even Arsenal, CL regulars, once in a while title contenders, way more money than us are forced to sell. They didn't want to lose players like Fabregas, Nasri, van Persie or even Clichy. "start holding on to those who fulfill their potential" really just sounds utterly unrealistic to me. This to me is like saying that Dawson has to become quicker, or Lennon has to become taller.

The point must be that a replacement player isn't signed when we lose a top class player, the replacement must (most of the time) already be settled or settling at that point, already be on the way up and forward.

That's not what I meant. Dawson and Lennon have fulfilled theirs, they just aren't good enough for a top 4 side (although I still maintain that in the right system when on form Lennon could be, but that is a different discussion).

Lets take Sandro as an example. For me, he's shown so far that he certainly has the potential to play for the top sides in the world, I would go as far as to say that back before his knee injury, he was probably the best DM in the prem.

So, lets say next season Sandro has an absolute stormer, back to better than he was, dominating midfield on his own against the best in the league. At the end of the season Madrid offer 50million for him, so Levy snaps their arm off.

No matter what we do, who we sign, we can't fill that hole the following season because;

A) Where we are as a club means we can't just go out and buy an established DM who is as good as Sandro. All these guys are in the CL.
B) Where we are as a club means we have to buy potential from elsewhere. Potential takes time to settle in, to fulfill. We could have the best scouting network in the world and we still couldn't immediately replace Sandro

The fact that we can't fill that hole means that although the manager may have sorted our left-back troubles, we now have a hole in CM that needs re-filled.

It's like sitting in a boat with 11 holes in it and ten fingers. In order to plug one hole, you have to allow another one to leak.

Arsenal held on to all of those players for much longer than we held on to Modric or Bale once they fulfilled their potential (well Fabregas and RVP at least). That's all I'm asking.

Daniel Levy obviously believes that the squad we currently have can challenge with the right manager in place. All I'm asking for is that he takes the risk on possibly losing a player or two for less than he would like in order to give us the best chance of becoming CL regulars.
 
That's not what I meant. Dawson and Lennon have fulfilled theirs, they just aren't good enough for a top 4 side (although I still maintain that in the right system when on form Lennon could be, but that is a different discussion).

Lets take Sandro as an example. For me, he's shown so far that he certainly has the potential to play for the top sides in the world, I would go as far as to say that back before his knee injury, he was probably the best DM in the prem.

So, lets say next season Sandro has an absolute stormer, back to better than he was, dominating midfield on his own against the best in the league. At the end of the season Madrid offer 50million for him, so Levy snaps their arm off.

No matter what we do, who we sign, we can't fill that hole the following season because;

A) Where we are as a club means we can't just go out and buy an established DM who is as good as Sandro. All these guys are in the CL.
B) Where we are as a club means we have to buy potential from elsewhere. Potential takes time to settle in, to fulfill. We could have the best scouting network in the world and we still couldn't immediately replace Sandro

The fact that we can't fill that hole means that although the manager may have sorted our left-back troubles, we now have a hole in CM that needs re-filled.

It's like sitting in a boat with 11 holes in it and ten fingers. In order to plug one hole, you have to allow another one to leak.

Arsenal held on to all of those players for much longer than we held on to Modric or Bale once they fulfilled their potential (well Fabregas and RVP at least). That's all I'm asking.

Daniel Levy obviously believes that the squad we currently have can challenge with the right manager in place. All I'm asking for is that he takes the risk on possibly losing a player or two for less than he would like in order to give us the best chance of becoming CL regulars.

Unfortunately that decision isn't always in his hands. If we could hold onto our players for longer than I'm certain he would, as he did with Modric.

I'm unsure we can convince any played to stay at Spurs when club like Real Madrid come calling offering players the prestige they dream of and tripling their current wages.

This is the game that we have to play and, considering the gradual improvement we've been making, it appears to be working pretty well.
 
That's not what I meant. Dawson and Lennon have fulfilled theirs, they just aren't good enough for a top 4 side (although I still maintain that in the right system when on form Lennon could be, but that is a different discussion).

Lets take Sandro as an example. For me, he's shown so far that he certainly has the potential to play for the top sides in the world, I would go as far as to say that back before his knee injury, he was probably the best DM in the prem.

So, lets say next season Sandro has an absolute stormer, back to better than he was, dominating midfield on his own against the best in the league. At the end of the season Madrid offer 50million for him, so Levy snaps their arm off.

No matter what we do, who we sign, we can't fill that hole the following season because;

A) Where we are as a club means we can't just go out and buy an established DM who is as good as Sandro. All these guys are in the CL.
B) Where we are as a club means we have to buy potential from elsewhere. Potential takes time to settle in, to fulfill. We could have the best scouting network in the world and we still couldn't immediately replace Sandro

The fact that we can't fill that hole means that although the manager may have sorted our left-back troubles, we now have a hole in CM that needs re-filled.

It's like sitting in a boat with 11 holes in it and ten fingers. In order to plug one hole, you have to allow another one to leak.

Arsenal held on to all of those players for much longer than we held on to Modric or Bale once they fulfilled their potential (well Fabregas and RVP at least). That's all I'm asking.

Daniel Levy obviously believes that the squad we currently have can challenge with the right manager in place. All I'm asking for is that he takes the risk on possibly losing a player or two for less than he would like in order to give us the best chance of becoming CL regulars.

My point with the Dawson and Lennon comment was to compare what you're asking with something I think is equally unrealistic to ask for.

Yes Arsenal have kept their players a bit longer, they've also been more successful and paid more money than us. This is natural.

There just aren't that many clubs I can think of that get successful over time because they're stubborn about who they sell, by keeping wantaway players against the pressure of bigger, richer clubs. I just don't see it as a viable solution, it sounds so simple "just don't sell your best players", but I really don't think that's a massive oversimplification.

There are clubs punching above their weight though (at least for periods), and the best way of doing that I think is to make sure your production and purchasing lines are working. Bring in more quality, bring up more quality. That brings the club forward.

Your "like for like" example with Sandro doesn't really work either. I know we wouldn't be able to buy another world class defensive midfielder, but I don't think people are saying that we can. The point is that we must have other top class players breaking through. When we eventually got over the loss of Berbatov it wasn't by signing a world class striker, it was by having functional strikers in Crouch and Defoe and having players in other positions signed and/or grow into top class players. Modric, Bale, VdV.

We never had to replace Bale with a like for like replacement. But others had to step up and fill his shoes, players that were already at the club that had the chance to settle in. This is what happens at Dortmund, this is what happened at Atletico with Falcao to Diego Costa. You have to get ahead of the curve.

By the way, in your ten fingers eleven holes analogy the boat still sinks in the end no matter how hard and long you shove those 10 fingers in there. But if you're a touch proactive, free your hands and fix one of the holes you might be onto something.
 
Agreed.

There's no way for us to move past the stepping stone point without ourselves taking massive steps up the pecking order. That happens by buying more quality players, and along the way those will see us as a stepping stone.

It's even more important to bring in the right manager a-la Rogers at Liverpool and Martinez at Everton.

20-20 vision is a wonderful thing but when Harry was kicked out two years ago many of us on here were urging for Martinez, he seemed absolutely the perfect fit for Tottenham, so we remain utterly baffled as to why we went for AVB given his known problems with man-management.

Get that the right gaffer and we stand a realistic chance of breaking through the glass ceiling.
 
It's even more important to bring in the right manager a-la Rogers at Liverpool and Martinez at Everton.

20-20 vision is a wonderful thing but when Harry was kicked out two years ago many of us on here were urging for Martinez, he seemed absolutely the perfect fit for Tottenham, so we remain utterly baffled as to why we went for AVB given his known problems with man-management.

Get that the right gaffer and we stand a realistic chance of breaking through the glass ceiling.

Of course, that has to be the first step.
 
It's even more important to bring in the right manager a-la Rogers at Liverpool and Martinez at Everton.

20-20 vision is a wonderful thing but when Harry was kicked out two years ago many of us on here were urging for Martinez, he seemed absolutely the perfect fit for Tottenham, so we remain utterly baffled as to why we went for AVB given his known problems with man-management.

Get that the right gaffer and we stand a realistic chance of breaking through the glass ceiling.

Martinez was a risk, especially two years ago when he had won nothing. People forget how dire his Wigan sides could be on the day (9-1 anyone?), they took some awful tonkings in the Martinez era.

They were obviously positives about his character and the style he tried to play, but hindsight revision doesn't change the fact that he would have been a massive risk.
 
It's even more important to bring in the right manager a-la Rogers at Liverpool and Martinez at Everton.

20-20 vision is a wonderful thing but when Harry was kicked out two years ago many of us on here were urging for Martinez, he seemed absolutely the perfect fit for Tottenham, so we remain utterly baffled as to why we went for AVB given his known problems with man-management.

Get that the right gaffer and we stand a realistic chance of breaking through the glass ceiling.
iirc there were only a handful of us wanting Martinez
 
That Wigan team did not deserve to be in the league considering their squad. Having their best players sold repeatedly, and remaining in the league, whilst playing attractive football is an incredible job for me. Two years ago may have been too soon, and perhaps too much of a risk, but now I would take him straight away.
 
That Wigan team did not deserve to be in the league considering their squad. Having their best players sold repeatedly, and remaining in the league, whilst playing attractive football is an incredible job for me. Two years ago may have been too soon, and perhaps too much of a risk, but now I would take him straight away.

If Everton are smart they'll maintain their recent tradition of long-term managers and tie him down with a huge contract. He might be able to insert a "Barcelona get-out clause", but I can't see him insisting on a "Spurs get-out clause" sadly.
 
If Everton are smart they'll maintain their recent tradition of long-term managers and tie him down with a huge contract. He might be able to insert a "Barcelona get-out clause", but I can't see him insisting on a "Spurs get-out clause" sadly.

Problem is Everton is broke (their income is too low), because Martinez seems loyal, he might give them 3-4 years, but financially they could never spend 50M in a season, which limits them to right about where they are.

Spurs is a much more tempting option, and would have been at beginning of season.
 
Martinez was a risk, especially two years ago when he had won nothing. People forget how dire his Wigan sides could be on the day (9-1 anyone?), they took some awful tonkings in the Martinez era.

They were obviously positives about his character and the style he tried to play, but hindsight revision doesn't change the fact that he would have been a massive risk.

But AVB wasn't? :eek:
 
Unfortunately that decision isn't always in his hands. If we could hold onto our players for longer than I'm certain he would, as he did with Modric.

I'm unsure we can convince any played to stay at Spurs when club like Real Madrid come calling offering players the prestige they dream of and tripling their current wages.

This is the game that we have to play and, considering the gradual improvement we've been making, it appears to be working pretty well.

It is though. If a player signs a 6 year contract we are perfectly within our rights to force them to stay for 6 years, after that, they can do what they want.
 
My point with the Dawson and Lennon comment was to compare what you're asking with something I think is equally unrealistic to ask for.

Yes Arsenal have kept their players a bit longer, they've also been more successful and paid more money than us. This is natural.

Arsenal are actually of a good illustration of my point. They haven't replaced any of those players adequately and have gone from regular title contenders to 4th place contenders. From a financial perspective, finishing 4th rather than 1st pales in comparison to finishing 5th rather than 4th. They've now bought Ozil, who will probably take a season or two to get going but are still lacking a top class CF. If Ozil is fantastic next season but they continue without a CF, they'll probably finish 4th again. If they then sign a world class CF, but let Ozil go, they will still finish 4th again the season after that because although they have this new shiney CF, they won't have Ozil. It's not building a team, it's re-cycling a team.

Turn that round to the situation Spurs are currently in. We are trying to go from 5th to CL regulars, a massive financial difference. Do you not think that the risk of forcing someone to stay for a couple more seasons then losing them at less value if we don't do it is worth it? It's not like we are struggling financially and knowing Levy he'd still get a good deal anyway.

There just aren't that many clubs I can think of that get successful over time because they're stubborn about who they sell, by keeping wantaway players against the pressure of bigger, richer clubs. I just don't see it as a viable solution, it sounds so simple "just don't sell your best players", but I really don't think that's a massive oversimplification.

I agree, but in our case its not necessarily about being successful over time, it's about taking that next step, becoming CL regulars and then having the pulling power to replace the unhappy players that want to go with players of equal or better ability. Once we are there, we can worry about long term success.

There are clubs punching above their weight though (at least for periods), and the best way of doing that I think is to make sure your production and purchasing lines are working. Bring in more quality, bring up more quality. That brings the club forward.

Again, I agree. But this notion of 'punching above our weight' frustrates me a little. We are a big club, with a large fan base, in one of the most attractive cities in the world if we could break regularly into the CL we would go from strength to strength. In order to do that, the first key step has to be get a good manager and allow him to build a team around this crop of players we have. That means holding onto the best ones for as long as it takes.

Your "like for like" example with Sandro doesn't really work either. I know we wouldn't be able to buy another world class defensive midfielder, but I don't think people are saying that we can. The point is that we must have other top class players breaking through. When we eventually got over the loss of Berbatov it wasn't by signing a world class striker, it was by having functional strikers in Crouch and Defoe and having players in other positions signed and/or grow into top class players. Modric, Bale, VdV.

Again, that's my point. Had we held on to Berbatov or replaced him with someone in a similar class rather than 'functional' whilst allowing Modric and Bale to grow into the players they became, my opinion is we'd be CL regulars right now. Bale and Modric may have still left, but we could replace them with ready made players of similar quality due to the attraction of the CL.

We never had to replace Bale with a like for like replacement. But others had to step up and fill his shoes, players that were already at the club that had the chance to settle in. This is what happens at Dortmund, this is what happened at Atletico with Falcao to Diego Costa. You have to get ahead of the curve.

As per the above, we would have a better chance of replacing him like for like or at least a couple of players with similar quality if we were in the CL. I do appreciate what happened at Dortmund and at Athletico though. If we can manage that kind of system then yes I'm over the moon with it, but Cl qualification will certainly make this easier. The quickest way to that for me is to hold on to our current key players, get a good manager and add a couple more players with potential in the hope that in a couple of years time these players fulfill that potential at the same time that our key players are in form and we finally finally have built a team with 8+ top class players all playing well at the same time.

By the way, in your ten fingers eleven holes analogy the boat still sinks in the end no matter how hard and long you shove those 10 fingers in there. But if you're a touch proactive, free your hands and fix one of the holes you might be onto something.

Not if you repeatedly sell the best thing you come up with to fix the hole for gold. You'd spend periods of time looking like your boat is going to float to the top and periods of time looking like it's sinking but all in all, never actually going anywhere.
 
That Wigan team did not deserve to be in the league considering their squad. Having their best players sold repeatedly, and remaining in the league, whilst playing attractive football is an incredible job for me. Two years ago may have been too soon, and perhaps too much of a risk, but now I would take him straight away.

As soon as he signed Gareth Barry for us on loan, this place would have exploded.
 
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