Richarlison

[thfcsteff]

Do you not wonder though why the club, mostly through RDZ, spoke about a lot of player's dispositions about staying or leaving but only one player ultimately became a problem?

The contrast in behaviour between Richi and Bergval is staggering to me. Very similar situations but the young gun seemed to conduct himself brilliantly through a tough career decision. Did Richi?

I presume you subscribe to the concept that people are different? And I assume you subscribe to the concept that different people might need to be managed differently? I mean, besides the fact that the two situations are hugely different in terms of career stage.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeh 100% this.

This summer saw a uniformed approach by some that decided that any player linked with a move away was in part because of their attitude, the same people said it about Richy, Spence, Bergvall and Vuskovic, frankly some of what was written was staggering TBH. Massively overplayed line that I think in part came down to people not liking them as players (or that was a coincidence)

Agreed!

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

This would be a cute except I have never tried to convince the forum that Richarlison is Van Basten. You (and others), however, have tried to convince the likes of me that he is the equivalent of that Weah hoax Soton signed a many years ago. The statistics continue to be ignored.

Yep, people trying to peddle something that has not been said and repeating it in the hope that is somehow becomes true. ITs nothing not do with Richy being good or very good, its that we have now been left with a team that collectively has not enough goals in its locker in their entire footballing history and that MAYBE leaving someone with 70 isn't maybe ideal. Hardly crazy logic and hardly making out Richy is Ronaldinho.

Not sure at this point why it needs to be restated again TBH

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I presume you subscribe to the concept that people are different? And I assume you subscribe to the concept that different people might need to be managed differently? I mean, besides the fact that the two situations are hugely different in terms of career stage.

Is the idea behind giving Richy clarity that he would have taken that on the chin, found himself a move, and been totally ok with it? Do we know that for sure?

Because if we accept he is emotionally volatile and should be treated differently, unless I’m missing something it feels like there’s every chance Richy might say something like ‘wow, they gave every other player who wanted to stay the option of staying, but they didn’t give that option to me, despite all the stuff I’ve done for them and deals I’ve turned down in the past, I’ll show them!’

It both presumes he would totally take it on the chin and not react in an emotional way as he did with what actually happened. It also presumes I think that because he didn’t have clarity that he was somehow more hurt by the club being willing to find him a move later in the window, even though it seems like he kept changing his mind? I guess I’m asking why clarity earlier in the summer would have solved all of this?

 

[Dicko]

So is he stuck until January now? No rumours to any other leagues with open transfer windows?

 

[Muttley]

I presume you subscribe to the concept that people are different? And I assume you subscribe to the concept that different people might need to be managed differently? I mean, besides the fact that the two situations are hugely different in terms of career stage.

Of course, but Dragusin is different from Danso who is different from Sarr who is different from Romero, Spence, Lanks, Devine, Phillips, Vic, Vuskovic, Solomon, Scarlett etc.

Look at the list and you see a player in Dragusin whose agent was always being an idiot. You see Solomon and his SM history. You see Romero and all the fun and games we had with him. Every player has their own story and their own personality but our club managed the transition of these players seamlessly. None of our other departees ended up in conflict with the club. Every single one of them seemed to act totally professionally. Some went on pre-season. Some didn't. Some of them were spoken about the manager publicly. Others weren't. Some were end of contract. Some were recently signed. There's also an entire spectrum of ages there.

Why was the Richi case so different? Why did his process break down spectacularly when all the others worked so well?

My educated guess is that there are pieces of this jigsaw us fans don't see and I very much doubt they sit favourably with the player. RDZ even alluded to this in his pressers, and still told the world he loved Richi.

 

[thfcsteff]

Of course, but Dragusin is different from Danso who is different from Sarr who is different from Romero, Spence, Lanks, Devine, Phillips, Vic, Vuskovic, Solomon, Scarlett etc.

Look at the list and you see a player in Dragusin whose agent was always being an idiot. You see Solomon and his SM history. You see Romero and all the fun and games we had with him. Every player has their own story and their own personality but our club managed the transition of these players seamlessly. None of our other departees ended up in conflict with the club. Every single one of them seemed to act totally professionally. Some went on pre-season. Some didn't. Some of them were spoken about the manager publicly. Others weren't. Some were end of contract. Some were recently signed. There's also an entire spectrum of ages there.

Why was the Richi case so different? Why did his process break down spectacularly when all the others worked so well?

Taking you at face-value here...the difference is timing versus situation versus seniority. Young loanees such as Devine, Phillips and Scarlett are trying to find careers. They have little established first-team time. Their moves will have always been understood as part of their journeys. Romero? Come on. Between him and the fans, that ship sailed last season and everyone knew it this summer. Spence - cleanly dealt with early due to honesty on all sides. Lankshear - made it clear he wanted first team football and would not take a loan, again early. Vuskovic - the same, plus we saw an angle to get a player in RDZ wanted from the buying club. Soloman? I honestly think its awful how he's been treated, as he looked no worse than anyone during the tour, but I think it's safe to say that everyone knew he would not be playing a part in our season for a variety of reasons. Sarr? Probably as close as we got to unfriendly, and yes, in this case I'd go along with saying his demeanor and attitude was top class despite disappointment (was sorry to see him go). Vic? Everyone knew he was off at the end of last season. Danso? That was certainly a wild one as it seemed to come from nowhere, and in all honesty, the deal was done so quickly he did not have time to be engaged in bitterness.

I'll tell you what I think...we fudged the guy around all summer. He did not want to sign an extension, that was clear (and when we should've said 'see ya'). Instead we kept him around in case. We then got a whiff that Ndiaye was 'on' and at that point decided we'd shuffle Richy on. Having seen the manager throw HIM under the bus earlier in the summer via media quotes, I would hypothesise that this specific shift so late in the window did not go down especially well. He ended up being (wrongly) blamed for Ndiaye not moving to us (it has been confirmed that the agent actually stopped taking our calls once City said they were in) and suddenly there's a giant mess in place.

My educated guess is that there are pieces of this jigsaw us fans don't see and I very much doubt they sit favourably with the player.

You have been clear on that point for sure.

RDZ even alluded to this in his pressers, and still told the world he loved Richi.

Bless. That's nice of him. I wish he'd been a little quieter overall in the first place.

 

[Bishop]

This would be a cute except I have never tried to convince the forum that Richarlison is Van Basten. You (and others), however, have tried to convince the likes of me that he is the equivalent of that Weah hoax Soton signed a many years ago. The statistics continue to be ignored.

Have I? I just say I don't rate him and I don't think he's a net positive. His stats aren't ignored, they just aren't good. Maybe you think that's the standard we need and fair enough if you do. I think we need better.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Have I? I just say I don't rate him and I don't think he's a net positive. His stats aren't ignored, they just aren't good. Maybe you think that's the standard we need and fair enough if you do. I think we need better.

We paid 75m for a winger who has scored 2 PL goals in 50 appearances (at over an average of 50 mins an apps) who is lauded for one season in Spain and is excused for not being able to play on the RW. I am not sure your standards are as high as you make out

 

[thfcsteff]

Have I? I just say I don't rate him and I don't think he's a net positive. His stats aren't ignored, they just aren't good. Maybe you think that's the standard we need and fair enough if you do. I think we need better.

Yes. You have. Look back and see how many times you remind us of your opinions regarding him. As for the rest of your post? Dear me...really? This again?

 

[Muttley]

I'll tell you what I think...we fudged the guy around all summer. He did not want to sign an extension, that was clear (and when we should've said 'see ya'). Instead we kept him around in case. We then got a whiff that Ndiaye was 'on' and at that point decided we'd shuffle Richy on. Having seen the manager throw HIM under the bus earlier in the summer via media quotes, I would hypothesise that this specific shift so late in the window did not go down especially well. He ended up being (wrongly) blamed for Ndiaye not moving to us (it has been confirmed that the agent actually stopped taking our calls once City said they were in) and suddenly there's a giant mess in place.

I like this explanation but find it less than holistic. This sort of toing and froing is very standard for the football business but most players in this scenario don't go running off to social media. There is also the balanced side that Richi was also fudging us around all summer as well. You have a market place with a dearth of strikers and you have a club and player hedging their bets. Richi is clearly waiting to see where in the Spurs pecking order he ends up once the squad rebuild is in place. Also, what offers come in. Spurs are waiting to see whether they can land other players or even get bids for other existing players. I think both parties know that Richi isn't our football saviour for the next chapter.

The part I disagree is the throwing Richi under the bus. I think our manager was just being honest on one hand but also setting standards on the other. He wants players to be angry if they are not in the team but also 100% committed to the project (his words). Of course he was laying down a challenge to his players. It wasn't personal to Richi at all. I think a club and manager has to either close ranks and say pretty much nothing about player transactions publicly or do the opposite. Our club and manager seem comfortable talking through these things. Let's see over time whether that works.

The other massive part is that this entire Richi saga is exacerbated by the start to our season. It would be closer to "nothing to see here" had we got off to a flyer in the league.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

The other massive part is that this entire Richi saga is exacerbated by the start to our season. It would be closer to "nothing to see here" had we got off to a flyer in the league.

Which if you are going to make them decisions you need to make sure doesn't happen otherwise you open yourself up.

Harsh, maybe, but ultimately its par for the job as manager, you will be judged on what decisions you make and the results you bring in

 

[Bishop]

We paid 75m for a winger who has scored 2 PL goals in 50 appearances (at over an average of 50 mins an apps) who is lauded for one season in Spain and is excused for not being able to play on the RW. I am not sure your standards are as high as you make out

Umm I have said we shouldn't have paid £75m for him and especially not to play on the right. So where is the inconsistency?

If 5 years into Savio's time with us, we are still seeing Richy level performances can you guess what I'll be saying?....

 

[Bishop]

Yes. You have. Look back and see how many times you remind us of your opinions regarding him. As for the rest of your post? Dear me...really? This again?

And look at all of your posts praising him. You like and rate him cool for you. I'm not telling you not to so i don't understand why you think I'm not allowed to have my opinion of him and why I can't voice my opinion just as you have?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Umm I have said we shouldn't have paid £75m for him and especially not to play on the right. So where is the inconsistency?

If 5 years into Savio's time with us, we are still seeing Richy level performances can you guess what I'll be saying?....

You are a staunch backer of someone with a horrendous record, forget the fee, there lies the inconsistency

 

[Bishop]

You are a staunch backer of someone with a horrendous record, forget the fee, there lies the inconsistency

I rate Savio in one context, him playing on the left. Period. I don't rate him at all on the right. I've said he's rubbish on the right on this very forum. That's consistency.

Besides I'm not a even numbers guy so raw stats don't mean a great deal to me.

I'm not even a staunch backer, I've just seen him play before he joined City and so I rate that version of him. If that's makes me a staunch backer of him skin your mind so be it. Bit you've never seen me say he will achieve this or that so I dunno where you get this staunch backer angle from. You don't rate him I get it, I've just seen him before City and thus I've seen him perform at a high level. Whether he reaches that he remains to be seen, but it definetly won't be by playing in the right hand side.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I rate Savio in one context, him playing on the left. Period. I don't rate him at all on the right. I've said he's rubbish on the right on this very forum. That's consistency.

Besides I'm not a even numbers guy so raw stats don't mean a great deal to me.

I'm not even a staunch backer, I've just seen him play before he joined City and so I rate that version of him. If that's makes me a staunch backer of him skin your mind so be it. Bit you've never seen me say he will achieve this or that so I dunno where you get this staunch backer angle from. You don't rate him I get it, I've just seen him before City and thus I've seen him perform at a high level. Whether he reaches that he remains to be seen, but it definetly won't be by playing in the right hand side.

I would say given the volume of posts on him and saying you wanted him, always wanted him etc, saying you are a staunch backer isn't a reach. You also 100% did defend the fee even digging people out saying they were indoctrinated by Levy for questioning it. I would say your view now has almost had to be forced as people are seeing him for themselves now first hand.

I think your backing for someone based on what they have produced yet condemnation of another who has produced more 100% shows a lack of consistency.

Anyway, back to the originally point, in a side who has no goal threat in its ranks historically, cutting out the only person with a PL goalscoring record is a risk. It has to work otherwise thats how managers lose their jobs

 

[Bishop]

I would say given the volume of posts on him and saying you wanted him, always wanted him etc, saying you are a staunch backer isn't a reach. You also 100% did defend the fee even digging people out saying they were indoctrinated by Levy for questioning it. I would say your view now has almost had to be forced as people are seeing him for themselves now first hand.

I think your backing for someone based on what they have produced yet condemnation of another who has produced more 100% shows a lack of consistency.

Anyway, back to the originally point, in a side who has no goal threat in its ranks historically, cutting out the only person with a PL goalscoring record is a risk. It has to work otherwise thats how managers lose their jobs

No I never backed the fee. Find a post with me saying he's worth £75m you won't find it.

I don't believe Richy has produced more at all. If you're comparing numbers that's an apples to oranges comparison. One is a striker and one is a winger of course Richy will have the higher numbers but Savio's season for Girona is better than any season Richy has ever had. Period.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

No I never backed the fee. Find a post with me saying he's worth £75m you won't find it.

I don't believe Richy has produced more at all. If you're comparing numbers that's an apples to oranges comparison. One is a striker and one is a winger of course Richy will have the higher numbers but Savio's season for Girona is better than any season Richy has ever had. Period.

No I am comparing Richy to the squad who hasn't delivered figures he has over a history of time, not just Savio, my point on Savio is you defend him against even those in his position which his stats don't stack up. Basically you treat the two differently.

You 100% deflected on people claiming the fee was too high by making points about Levy and the value only being too high if they don't perform. I suspect someone who feels we over paid doesn't make that effort

 

[Muttley]

So after some great conversations about Richi to date, looks like our media are moving onto the next chapter of the saga

Tottenham reach a compromise with Richarlison after near-legal battle in the summer

The Tottenham hierarchy and Richarlison's representatives have come to an understanding following their standoff during the summer window.

www.spurs-web.com

Will we now see more and more if these types of stories as the Jan window get ever closer?