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Mathys Tel

Right now if he starts against Villa then I am of the belief that he is a project player of De Zerbi. A player that De Zerbi wants to make into a top level player but one who appears significantly lacking right now. I think that he’s indecisive and lack in end product quality.

If there is a player there, and he appeared to have a lot of potential when we first signed him, then he needs to be kept out of the light for now, to rebuild his confidence and to have personal one on one time with a coach to develop his game.

He needs to be benched and to train hard to get to where De Zerbi believes he can be. As what he’s delivering now is far from good enough.
 
El Dante said:
Right now if he starts against Villa then I am of the belief that he is a project player of De Zerbi. A player that De Zerbi wants to make into a top level player but one who appears significantly lacking right now. I think that he’s indecisive and lack in end product quality.

If there is a player there, and he appeared to have a lot of potential when we first signed him, then he needs to be kept out of the light for now, to rebuild his confidence and to have personal one on one time with a coach to develop his game.

He needs to be benched and to train hard to get to where De Zerbi believes he can be. As what he’s delivering now is far from good enough.
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He's also physically the one we can afford to overplay (bricky thing to say).

We are now being tested, Conte, Jose, Ange, Frank all ran players into the ground, some supposedly ignored medical team advice and it resulted in the worse 2-3 years of injuries any club has ever seen in PL.

As fans, we always say, why risk it, why risk a player for 1 game, the answer it turns out is your job depends on it. If RDZ doesn't start Fernandes, Porro, Maddison, Kudus, Savio against Villa, and does start Tel, and the we lose, the pressure really starts to crank up, with huge international break of negativity to follow
 
yiddo37 said:
The 'C' word is nasty and don't get why our fans use it to slag off a player, don't consider it racist though, unless you saw some other comment?
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Apologies I misread Glenda’s comment re the abuse. As you say, the C word is nasty and I don’t get it either. Some person proceeded to most likely ruin some kid’s day out by C-ing this and C-ing that during most of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game. Some people.
 
I've long been someone who believes in the potential of Tel, but that's all it is at this stage. And this season he has regressed somewhat from what I was seeing at the back end of last season - and that's fine, he's 21 so to be expected whether it be confidence or just general loss of form.

But with Kudus and Maddison coming back from injury and Savio and Marmoush here now he will be returning to the bench soon which is where he should be at this stage. Hopefully fans at the games get behind him during these difficult moments when he's clearly struggling a bit, a novel idea for a select few sadly I know....
 
I think for his own development he needs being taken out the firing line a little. He is no better or worse than many this season.

The situation for the opportunity for Kudus (who likely should have scored) is where he thrives and we are just not in those areas enough.

Ultimately he isn't picking himself, so a rest from RBZ, get Savio on the left because he has looked poor on the right and we might move forward
 
DeanoAustin said:
At one point on the TV, I remember hearing him getting stick. Bergvall, who had a good game, played a ball into him in their box and Tel turned back to groans. Fact was, the ball Bergvall played wasn't good enough and hadn't enough pace on it so Tel had no option.

Unfortunately, he's now been identified as a spacegoat so he's gonna get it from the fan base every time. It's fudging disgusting carry on.
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You could tell (no pun,) he was the next in line to be spacegoat for the season as early as the first home game Vs the Geordies.
 
He’s pants but he’s our pants so if we brick or fart in them or leave a bit of dribble then he’s doing his job.

Get your head down son, stop trying to be better than you think you are, do the basics and I’m sure it will click.
 
Baleforce said:
I think Tel worked hard in difficult circumstances, that's not his game, he wants balls over the top to run onto, he doesn't want it to feet with with a fb up his arse.

Sonny was never any good at that either.

Not saying he couldn't do better with passes and touches, but his head didn't drop and he didn't stop running.
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When have you ever seen Tel do that? With, or before, us.
He picks the ball up, tries to beat a defender like he's Bale, but is instead Fale because he has no fight.
Or he cuts inside and loses the ball.
He doesn't play in behind into the space, with or without the ball.
 
monkeybarry said:
When have you ever seen Tel do that? With, or before, us.
He picks the ball up, tries to beat a defender like he's Bale, but is instead Fale because he has no fight.
Or he cuts inside and loses the ball.
He doesn't play in behind into the space, with or without the ball.
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People talk of Tel's abilities as a projection of what they think he's capable of rather than why they've actually sent him do with their own eyes.

I'm seeing people saying he's in poor form right now. When has he ever been in good form? 🤣
 
parklane1 said:
There is always at least one player to get the blame, it seem that Tel is the latest target for the boo boys. :rolleyes:
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That simply isn't true - everyone with eyes has said since we signed him, some of us before!

The slight difference is Tel is one of our longest serving players, so a rounded assessment can be made. At present, no one is looking anything other than shote, except Bentancur, and Kinsky is looking on par.
 
I notice @SissokoWasGood (BoL) raised a fair question about the difference between Richi's omission and Tel's omission on the Richi thread. Nobody seems to be outraged that Tel was left out to my knowledge unless I missed it.

Must admit, when I saw the 20 man squad yesterday I could see the manager's dilemma.

He selected his team plus the following bench: Dubravka, Senesi, Tosin, Udogie, Gray, Bergval, Gallagher, Maddison, Kudus
Injured: Kulu, Odobert, Xavi, Mudryk.
Omitted: Austin, Davies, Tel

It clearly felt like Tel vs Senesi or Tosin for that place on the bench. The manager also stated that Tel had played a lot recently and seemed to be totally professional about his manager's choices so I don't think there is an issue. The manager rewarded Tosin who has missed squad since he joined.

Gonna be worth keeping an eye on who becomes the 21st or 22nd man as Kulu returns, assuming we can get everyone else fit and available. I would imagine if Porro's hamstring recovers in time, then we get another data point soon.
 
Muttley said:
I notice @SissokoWasGood (BoL) raised a fair question about the difference between Richi's omission and Tel's omission on the Richi thread. Nobody seems to be outraged that Tel was left out to my knowledge unless I missed it.

Must admit, when I saw the 20 man squad yesterday I could see the manager's dilemma.

He selected his team plus the following bench: Dubravka, Senesi, Tosin, Udogie, Gray, Bergval, Gallagher, Maddison, Kudus
Injured: Kulu, Odobert, Xavi, Mudryk.
Omitted: Austin, Davies, Tel

It clearly felt like Tel vs Senesi or Tosin for that place on the bench. The manager also stated that Tel had played a lot recently and seemed to be totally professional about his manager's choices so I don't think there is an issue. The manager rewarded Tosin who has missed squad since he joined.

Gonna be worth keeping an eye on who becomes the 21st or 22nd man as Kulu returns, assuming we can get everyone else fit and available. I would imagine if Porro's hamstring recovers in time, then we get another data point soon.
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It's a false equivalence. We have a deep squad - someone has to miss out of the match day squad. He's there to be used if required.

The better comparison involving Tel would be when Frank left him out of the European squad. I'm sure everyone was equally nonplussed about that as they are with this 👀
 
billyiddo said:
It's a false equivalence. We have a deep squad - someone has to miss out of the match day squad. He's there to be used if required.

The better comparison involving Tel would be when Frank left him out of the European squad. I'm sure everyone was equally nonplussed about that as they are with this 👀
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Hmm…I don’t think it is a false equivalence to be honest. My entire argument with Richy has been that it is in the coaches’ and the club’s gift to try and accrue a benefit from the decision that they have have taken. My argument has been that benefits will come to culture and behavioural standards by taking a stand against what I think is unprofessional behaviour from the player. The argument back to me has been that even if it’s not certain or even likely that we’d have better results with Richy registered, having the option would be optimal anyway. And to that I think that you can’t discount the cultural and behavioural side.

As it relates to Tel, I would say the same thing. It’s in RDZ’s gift to accrue a benefit to the side by not selecting him. Now, that may be taking him at his word publicly that he simply thought Maddison and Kudus would be more likely to change the game yesterday than him. But given we know he was unhappy with aspects of Tel’s performances previously, maybe there’s an aspect of trying to reinforce a behavioural standard with Tel too. To send a message that if he wants to be playing and earn that trust, he needs to be following instructions more closely and executing better on the pitch. If Tel was performing well, he wouldn’t be saying a half fit Maddison is more likely to turn the game.

In both cases, they play in the same position. They’ve both been left out voluntarily and are not injured. I’m not entirely sure why it’s a false equivalence. It seems it one sense it’s important to have the option regardless and in the other, well there’s only so many spots so tough decisions have to be made. If there’s only so many spots I would also again ask why it even matters whether Richy is registered, when actually registered players can’t even find a spot on the bench? If RDZ thinks that Maddison and Kudus are more likely to change the game than Tel, you’d have to assume he thinks that with even more conviction about Richy.

I think in both cases, the coach is trying to get some other benefit beyond simply having the option of the player in question on the bench.
 
billyiddo said:
It's a false equivalence. We have a deep squad - someone has to miss out of the match day squad. He's there to be used if required.

The better comparison involving Tel would be when Frank left him out of the European squad. I'm sure everyone was equally nonplussed about that as they are with this 👀
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I will also say I was unhappy with Frank’s treatment of Tel. The context being that he was left out of the Champions League squad having just signed for us permanently. Under a manager that seemed to have made an instant decision on him, and who was seemingly making comments publicly and privately about how few players were actually top players at Spurs, despite never having managed many top players himself, and implementing a system that produced some of the most dreadful football at Spurs that we’ve ever seen. I simply don’t think Frank had earned the right to judge players with the certainty with which he was doing it, and I was concerned that a top prospect in Europe like Tel, who had just joined us permanently, would be beginning to regret his decision.

RDZ has given Tel plenty of chances. If he judges that Tel hasn’t been performing but also hasn’t been following instructions then I can absolutely see the logic in leaving him out for a game.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I will also say I was unhappy with Frank’s treatment of Tel. The context being that he was left out of the Champions League squad having just signed for us permanently. Under a manager that seemed to have made an instant decision on him, and who was seemingly making comments publicly and privately about how few players were actually top players at Spurs, despite never having managed many top players himself, and implementing a system that produced some of the most dreadful football at Spurs that we’ve ever seen. I simply don’t think Frank had earned the right to judge players with the certainty with which he was doing it, and I was concerned that a top prospect in Europe like Tel, who had just joined us permanently, would be beginning to regret his decision.

RDZ has given Tel plenty of chances. If he judges that Tel hasn’t been performing but also hasn’t been following instructions then I can absolutely see the logic in leaving him out for a game.
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Tel was replaced by Solanke in the Euro squad in January, about 7 months in to Franks time at the club, which is longer than RDZ has had with any of our players. I think that's a fair enough time for the manager to make an informed decision.
 
billyiddo said:
Tel was replaced by Solanke in the Euro squad in January, about 7 months in to Franks time at the club, which is longer than RDZ has had with any of our players. I think that's a fair enough time for the manager to make an informed decision.
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Tel was not included in the first CL squad in September when the first registration deadline passed. He was added because of injuries which gave us the opportunity to do that months in, and then Solanke replaced him again for the final games.

Also…talk about false equivalence. Frank HAD to leave someone out because of a regulation, and it had to be one of the foreign players. RDZ does not need to leave Richy out of the squad, he’s choosing to do it.

I think choosing to leave Tel out against Villa is fairly similar to choosing to leave Richy out overall, when the argument is about optionality.
 
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