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Vinai Venkatesham - CEO

Bishop said:
You might not agree because his views align with yours largely but even you have to admit he's being hypocritical.
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Nope.
I'll explain...I have an increasingly massive issue with the use of that word 'hypocrisy. Especially as you've deployed it here.
You said...
"
This is rich coming from you considering all the excuses you made and continue to make about the terrible football we played under Ange. 🤣

Either accept that there can be mitigation for the quality of the football and the results or be like me and accept no excuses. You can't decide to makes excuses for one guy and not the other. That's hypocrisy."

I'm sorry, what you've said there is rubbish. You really think YOUR definition of the 'rules of opinion' get to define hypocrisy? What you're essentially saying is that we accept mitigation for poor results/football across the board or we don't.
Nope.
I said from early in the season I had little time being patient for a manager who to my eye was only interested in perfecting the art of Frankball/horseshoe creation. I was repeatedly told I should be patient and give Frank time. Why? I did NOT like the style of football and I did NOT see any desire from him to take even a small risk (this was during times when he was only missing Maddison and Deki, players who would've found his system a bit limiting IMO).
I enjoyed the intent Ange showed with his football. I also enjoyed watching him actually practice pragmatism to get us across the line and win a European trophy.
I liked his intended direction of traffic from the start. I disliked Frank's.
That absolutely does NOT make someone (or me) a 'hypocrite'.

I am more than ready to admit to hypocrisy on other levels and in other areas. Everyone should. Listen to the podcast (genuinely interesting as a philosophical/behavioral conversation).
 
Baleforce said:
When Steve Jobs came back to Apple he did exactly that, went on stage, said Apple didn't need to compete with Microsoft and that he was going to screw developers for a couple of years because the platform needed a huge overhaul. Look where Apple is now.

You can't fix a problem if you deny it exists.
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Tottenham Hotspur FC is not a tech company. In fact, that is a massive part of the problem, someone somewhere forget to remind our owners that there's a football club in and amongst the business too. Furthermore, are you genuinely comparing Steve Jobs to Thomas Frank? If Jobbsy was alive I suspect even HE'D have done a better job as our manager!!!
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
People don't seemingly want to face up to truths about Spurs at times. Everyone thinks its just a click of the manager fingers and its sorted. The issues that existed before exist still, you have to hope RDZ gets the players he needs or he will soon be in pressers telling truths himself
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In order to reach that conclusion, it has to be a holistic overview. Were there problems? Absolutely. I think Venkatesham is right when he says we needed to bring ourselves up to speed, I get that. The timing? Not so much, regardless, I admit that the way we were run versus the way modern clubs are run needed/needs switching.
The biggest issues were not paying proper wages for players, timing of transfers, inability to close deals for those reasons, and maybe biggest of all, injuries.

I agree on all that. And the potential for De Zerbi to go south if we don't go north for him.
However, he has shown a direction, intent, energy and public face of unity, belief and respect for the club which I have not seen since Poch. THAT is a massive thing to have done.
 
Regarding Venkatesham, I find myself a little more aligned with @Finney Is Back than I was 48 hours ago. It's a dirty job. He's in there doing it. The biggest question is if he is up to it, and that will be determined by time. I'd say he will have minimal chances to ride out any further bumps, but I do accept that undoing 25 years of a direction is arduous. I'd love to know who directed the timing of Levy's departure? I suspect it was the Lewis family, and I have to assume they had a huge reason for doing so given the horrendous timing of the move.
 
thfcsteff said:
Tottenham Hotspur FC is not a tech company. In fact, that is a massive part of the problem, someone somewhere forget to remind our owners that there's a football club in and amongst the business too. Furthermore, are you genuinely comparing Steve Jobs to Thomas Frank? If Jobbsy was alive I suspect even HE'D have done a better job as our manager!!!
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To be fair I think that would be the case even if he were dead.
 
I don't know, debates with old managers are rife on all clubs forums so it can be understandable at times. But usually it comes at a time when the current manager is doing poorly and we wish for happier times we had in the past (eg the monthly Poch debate).

We've had a horrendous couple of years in the league, and everyone has said why they think that is - but now we've got a manager who has shown signs he can handle this club, and possibly really take this club forward if allowed. So let's look forward with him, not backwards :)....
 
harr1984 said:
I don't know, debates with old managers are rife on all clubs forums so it can be understandable at times. But usually it comes at a time when the current manager is doing poorly and we wish for happier times we had in the past (eg the monthly Poch debate).

We've had a horrendous couple of years in the league, and everyone has said why they think that is - but now we've got a manager who has shown signs he can handle this club, and possibly really take this club forward if allowed. So let's look forward with him, not backwards :)....
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Here here
 
thfcsteff said:
Tottenham Hotspur FC is not a tech company. In fact, that is a massive part of the problem, someone somewhere forget to remind our owners that there's a football club in and amongst the business too. Furthermore, are you genuinely comparing Steve Jobs to Thomas Frank? If Jobbsy was alive I suspect even HE'D have done a better job as our manager!!!
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Business is business, it doesn’t matter what the widget is, the same principles apply.

I’m not comparing the two men no, I was responding to the question on business leaders being honest about their product and situation, it was suggested they are never are, which I believe to be false and provided a well known example.
 
Baleforce said:
it's clearly more the Ange fan club wondering why the guy with an actual CV isn't getting the same stick that the chancer nobody had heard of three years ago did
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Probably because one of those managers got way more points per game, while qualifying for Europe twice and winning a trophy, while playing football that was for the most part exciting to watch. The other one got the worst ever points per premier league game for any manager here for 10 games or more while playing football that was eye gougingly bad.

Spurs made two mistakes with Frank.

1. Appointing him in the first place.
2. Not sacking him several games earlier and fixing that first mistake quickly.
 
harr1984 said:
Yeah I remember and agreed with you at the time.

It will be interesting to see what we do regarding our AMs, Madders has just come back and isn't young himself really and Simons is out for a while and no one knows with Deki. Would probably be a good idea to get someone else in, but would be fair to argue we have bigger priorities and with no Europe a lack of games and revenue it's probably wise to revisit in a years time....
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It's a good year for us to invest considering we aren't in Europe, when taking into consideration the new psr rules (or whatever they're being labelled now)
 
Muttley said:
I'm one who does think it is massively about the manager. I'm not talking about the formal org chart, but when you have an entire club working for the first team manager then you are in a good place. That includes the chairman, the DoF and all of the scouting, fitness, medical, U21's, academy etc. For me, that is the secret sauce. What happens when you get the wrong manager then you don't have this. We didn't have this with Poch either as he kept preaching about the timings of summer transfers and his chairman kept doing things his own way. There are a lot of pieces to holistically get behind a manager, not just the first team squad.

In fact, the only piece of our club that shouldn't be directly behind RDZ is the women's section.

This is what guys like Klopp and Pep have always had at their clubs. It's the reason that lot down the road just won the league.
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I agree. But the manager himself has to be a special guy.

Although to argue against myself, I don't think the manager down the road is. So maybe the special guy manager elevates a club despite of a few shortcomings?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I agree. But the manager himself has to be a special guy.

Although to argue against myself, I don't think the manager down the road is. So maybe the special guy manager elevates a club despite of a few shortcomings?
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The irony here is that we had the special one and his approach created a toxic culture where he lost the changing room and the support from the overall leadership team.

I always think back to how FSG and John Henry put every role in place to make Klopp do great things. Then Klopp did the rest himself. That's what we need.
 
Muttley said:
Only Spurs fans could have a debate whether c_rap manager 1 is worse the c_rap manager 2.

Me, I just accept that they were both c_rap.

I'm more interested in who who are their next victims and whether they can rebuild their reputations after crashing and burning at a big club.
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All I would argue with is that they're crap manager 3 and 4, with Jose and conte being 1 and 2, at least in the context of spurs managers.
Giving nuno and tudor passes.
 
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