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Vinai Venkatesham - CEO

SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
You have to be able to look at the fear with which the team played, the uncertainty, how this translated to the crowd in a way we have never seen. It was not just the injuries, because this was happening before the worst of the crisis started to bite this year.
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they should have been fudging scared, they had been losing every week for a year and a half when Frank showed up
 
Baleforce said:
Yes I was happy with Frank being honest in his assessment, I don't want BS from a manger and talk of attacking football and the Tottenham way, because that brick doesn't work, 2 tiles in 140 years prove it.

I want pragmatism and realism, I don't need smoke blown up my arse and to be told I'm a special little soldier.

Give it to me straight, like a pear cider made with 100% pears.
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Yeah 26 league games of pragmatism under Frank was wonderful wasn’t it.
 
Baleforce said:
Yes I was happy with Frank being honest in his assessment, I don't want BS from a manger and talk of attacking football and the Tottenham way, because that brick doesn't work, 2 tiles in 140 years prove it.

I want pragmatism and realism, I don't need smoke blown up my arse and to be told I'm a special little soldier.

Give it to me straight, like a pear cider made with 100% pears.
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because someone says something you agree with, doesn't mean they are honest, it means the narrative suits yours.

People love to point at Conte and Jose for "saying it as it is", completely ignoring their motive was covering their ass, how Conte & Jose said Spurs could never win anything with all our problems, yet next guy through the door did (funny that).

At the top level you know the things that are wrong with your organization, both the ones you can change and the ones you can't. Calling it out in public rarely serves any value bar ego/reputation protection (Conte and Jose don't give a rats ass about Spurs). And time and time again, ex-pros call out the "never give a player an excuse for why they could underperform, they will take it"

And finally, most of us on this board are of a certain age, managing 20 year old millionaires requires a far different level of being told "your special" that perhaps our generations expected or experienced.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Goodness grief. This actually says a lot about how we are talking past each other. We lost a lot of games under Ange, but the players never lost belief, and that allowed us to actually win a trophy.

Again, Frank came in and told us all we will lose games, he said we weren’t really a CL club, he talked about taking risks while making the players play the most risk averse football we have ever seen. And actually ON THE PITCH the players displayed a complete lack of confidence and fear. That’s not just me saying it, it actually happened.

Again, I just feel like people don’t want to admit exactly how bad it got this season. And how close to disaster we actually were, and clearly if you were in favour of Frank and really bought into this idea that the person he replaced was an idiot then you are more likely to try and excuse away things that were CLEARLY Frank’s responsibility.
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It got bad this season, real bad. Which is why there wasn't really anyone arguing against sacking the manager. It got just as bad the season previous, same position less points. Same reason why people wanted to make that change too.

Your post here about messaging from the manager raises a point - Ange was a fantastic communicator, people bought in to his message more than the reality of what was being served up. Frank was a poor communicator so couldn't buy himself the time when the football was poor.
 
Baleforce said:
I don't see being honest and getting the best out of what you have as being mutually exclusive.

I know my limitations as a player, I've never had my nose put out of joint by the role or instructions I've been given on a football pitch, a professional is surely even less likely to be as they are being paid to do what their manager tells them to.
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Igor Tudor when asked about whether Spurs could stay up under him said "100%.". How did that go?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Goodness grief. This actually says a lot about how we are talking past each other. We lost a lot of games under Ange, but the players never lost belief, and that allowed us to actually win a trophy.

Again, Frank came in and told us all we will lose games, he said we weren’t really a CL club, he talked about taking risks while making the players play the most risk averse football we have ever seen. And actually ON THE PITCH the players displayed a complete lack of confidence and fear. That’s not just me saying it, it actually happened.

Again, I just feel like people don’t want to admit exactly how bad it got this season. And how close to disaster we actually were, and clearly if you were in favour of Frank and really bought into this idea that the person he replaced was an idiot then you are more likely to try and excuse away things that were CLEARLY Frank’s responsibility.
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The worst part came under Tudor, no defense of Frank, just saying
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Hold on a minute, what is happening here? I have defended Ange, on the basis that injuries destroyed the second season, that we focused on the Europa and didn’t play our starting centre backs in the league, and I’ve also said that I wonder how he would have done in the new PL, whether he would have been too idealistic to succeed in a league where physicality and direct football was the order of the day.

Now, I’m supposedly being hypocritical for defending Ange on the basis of injuries, but a ton of other people are giving Frank a pass for injuries? It seems to be like if people wanted Ange out, they were happy to cast him as an idiot, and the people that wanted Frank, are happy to defend him on the basis he didn’t get a fair shake for player availability.
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What I'm saying is you've defended the poor football under Ange as being due to injuries, you've defended the poor league performance as being under Ange as being caused again by injuries. Yet you don't consider those factors for Frank. For me that is hypocritical they both suffered from massive injuries. You've made mitigation for the issues Ange had, but you don't accept any for Frank. That's text book hypocritical behaviour. By all means be critical but don't equally. I'll give @Raziel that, he criticises both them equally.

I don't really make any excuses, injuries are what they are. You have to deal with them Ange or Frank neither were able to. Both were let down by the club in terms of reinforcements.
 
Baleforce said:
I don't see being honest and getting the best out of what you have as being mutually exclusive.

I know my limitations as a player, I've never had my nose put out of joint by the role or instructions I've been given on a football pitch, a professional is surely even less likely to be as they are being paid to do what their manager tells them to.
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A manager should tell players if they are underperforming of not following instructions on the training ground or dressing room not in public. They're supposed to be working together and it hardly builds trust if you tell the world they aren't very good and implying it's not his fault. You wouldn't follow him to hell and back.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
A manager should tell players if they are underperforming of not following instructions on the training ground or dressing room not in public. They're supposed to be working together and it hardly builds trust if you tell the world they aren't very good and implying it's not his fault. You wouldn't follow him to hell and back.
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Who did Frank call out directly in public?

Is this not all on him saying we had back doored our way into the CL, and that we had not qualified through league position?

Does anyone not agree with that?
 
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