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Grays_1890 said:
The issue is with this subject is that you have religious nut jobs on both sides of the fence and then alot of innocent parties. The IDF and their rape/murderous tactics are every bit as deplorable as Hamas, just do it with more structure and denial.

The issue comes is that people are picking sides like its football and happily conflate Hamas with Palestinian people and that some how argue that Palestinians deserve the hardship they have endured, whilst the Israelis are the pure victims in not only the last couple of years but the entire recent history.

The facts are that there are factions of Israel that want Palestine wiped out just as much as there are the other way, its been the way for decades now.

People seem unwilling to see there is an absolute middle ground of blame in this conflict for whatever reason they have, sometimes unfortunately that comes down to their own prejudice.

Anyway its for the other thread, just adding my 10p worth
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I used to be on the fence, I always felt the media narrative was slightly leaning against Israel if anything. But I visited Bilbao and San Sebastián recently and I was taken aback by how many Palestinian flags I saw. There were literally thousands! Independence is clearly a touchy subject in that region of Spain but I thought there must be a reason why it’s so pro Palestine and not one single flag in support of Israel. They (Israel) must be doing something wrong surely.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I used to be on the fence, I always felt the media narrative was slightly leaning against Israel if anything. But I visited Bilbao and San Sebastián recently and I was taken aback by how many Palestinian flags I saw. There were literally thousands! Independence is clearly a touchy subject in that region of Spain but I thought there must be a reason why it’s so pro Palestine and not one single flag in support of Israel. They (Israel) must be doing something wrong surely.
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It's the oppressed sticking together.
Obviously the oppression of Palestine and the "oppression" of the basques, catalans, Scots , Irish, bretans or the flemish isn't quite the same.
But if they can continue to attach their cause to such as the Palestinians some of the "injustice" rubs off in the mind of the uninitiated.
 
LutonSpurs said:
History didn't start in 1967. You side with a brutal oppressor that murders innocents em masse.
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Well we could say it was a part of the roman empire, then the eastern roman empire. The lands were predominantly catholic. Then the muslims conquered them. Then we had the crusades trying to get it back. Then the ottomans. Than the british empire.
How far do you want to go?
 
Grays_1890 said:
The issue is with this subject is that you have religious nut jobs on both sides of the fence and then alot of innocent parties. The IDF and their rape/murderous tactics are every bit as deplorable as Hamas, just do it with more structure and denial.

The issue comes is that people are picking sides like its football and happily conflate Hamas with Palestinian people and that some how argue that Palestinians deserve the hardship they have endured, whilst the Israelis are the pure victims in not only the last couple of years but the entire recent history.

The facts are that there are factions of Israel that want Palestine wiped out just as much as there are the other way, its been the way for decades now.

People seem unwilling to see there is an absolute middle ground of blame in this conflict for whatever reason they have, sometimes unfortunately that comes down to their own prejudice.

Anyway its for the other thread, just adding my 10p worth
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There are religious nutjobs on both sides, but only one side constrains them within a functioning democracy. The other is, in itself, a party of terrorists.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I used to be on the fence, I always felt the media narrative was slightly leaning against Israel if anything. But I visited Bilbao and San Sebastián recently and I was taken aback by how many Palestinian flags I saw. There were literally thousands! Independence is clearly a touchy subject in that region of Spain but I thought there must be a reason why it’s so pro Palestine and not one single flag in support of Israel. They (Israel) must be doing something wrong surely.
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San Sebastian is one of my favourite places in the world. Unfortunately it's inhabited by political halfwits.
 
Lilbaz said:
Well we could say it was a part of the roman empire, then the eastern roman empire. The lands were predominantly catholic. Then the muslims conquered them. Then we had the crusades trying to get it back. Then the ottomans. Than the british empire.
How far do you want to go?
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Till before Hamas existed? As in the point I was making.
 
scaramanga said:
If everything is viewed through the lens of a simpleton then yes, everything seems simple.

If you were willing to engage honestly and with self reflection, you could admit that there's far more to it.
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Of course there is more historically to the whole situation but the facts are

Netty is a muderous cnut - IDF Murder and Rape people
Hamas are murderous clams - They Murder and Rape people

Palestinians are largely victims of this whole episodes as are largely victims of circumstance and other agendas.

Yes there is more to the whole story of why where and how, but in isolation, the above is fact.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Of course there is more historically to the whole situation but the facts are

Netty is a muderous cnut - IDF Murder and Rape people
Hamas are murderous clams - They Murder and Rape people

Palestinians are largely victims of this whole episodes as are largely victims of circumstance and other agendas.

Yes there is more to the whole story of why where and how, but in isolation, the above is fact.
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It's entirely disingenuous to use the phrase IDF murder and rape people - that's a huge number of people that will have the same cross sections of society as any other group.

Footballer's rape people. Does that mean being a footballer is wrong? Doctors murder people - does that make all doctors evil?
 
scaramanga said:
It's entirely disingenuous to use the phrase IDF murder and rape people - that's a huge number of people that will have the same cross sections of society as any other group.

Footballer's rape people. Does that mean being a footballer is wrong? Doctors murder people - does that make all doctors evil?
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You do it all the time when you take broad strokes about certain elements of society you don't like though? So I hope people can be intelligent enough to take it in the context that the IDF have and not all do, but just in case thats my point.
 
Grays_1890 said:
You do it all the time when you take broad strokes about certain elements of society you don't like though? So I hope people can be intelligent enough to take it in the context that the IDF have and not all do, but just in case thats my point.
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So on the same basis, all Palestinians are terrorists, right?
 
scaramanga said:
So on the same basis, all Palestinians are terrorists, right?
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Nope in the same way not all Israelis are murderous clams because of the 2% that are actively conscripted who are fighting a dirty war.

I can't be clearer, Both the Israeli people and Palestinians are the innocent parties in this whilst both their leaderships have blood on their hands for how this has been played out.

When someone like Netty claims the holocaust was an invention of the Palestinians, something us Jews, Israeli Jews and event the Germans won't have, then you know there are some really ugly things happening on both sides of the fence.

You have been clear that you think Palestinians are a backward society who deserve what they get, so there is literally no point having a conversation about empathy being shown to both sides of the conflict
 
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