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Lilbaz said:
Possibly. But we can't do much about decisions. All we can do is cut down on the sillyness.
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The data is there ( a few people have run numbers), our foul to card rate is a massive outlier to everyone else in top 6-8, both at a squad level and individual

Basically Romero gets a card for 40% of his tackles, other similar CB's get somewhere between 20%-33%, we are getting 1 in 4 as a team, others are getting 1 in 11. 1 penalty all season for a team that regularly is in top 3 for touches in opposition box? Scum are at almost 1 every other game, Liverpool got two yesterday (both suspect)

I don't do the conspiracy theory brick but there is a reality of Pep/Klopp/Arteta doing the SAF media manipulation/pressure on the system, combined with the very real (never acknowledged) brick that in certain parts of this country, certain fans will actually turn up at refs houses and/or threaten them.

Neketiah on Vicario, Cash on Bentancur, recent tackle on Deki, give me 10 minutes and I could probably come up with 6-7 red cards we didn't get this season. Even Sunday, Bournemouth's #19 should have been off twice for second yellow and ref bottled it, and this is about the third time in December that the ref has bottled it so hard on the second yellow the opposition manager has done an early sub (knowing the next one is off).
 
Raziel said:
The data is there ( a few people have run numbers), our foul to card rate is a massive outlier to everyone else in top 6-8, both at a squad level and individual

Basically Romero gets a card for 40% of his tackles, other similar CB's get somewhere between 20%-33%, we are getting 1 in 4 as a team, others are getting 1 in 11. 1 penalty all season for a team that regularly is in top 3 for touches in opposition box? Scum are at almost 1 every other game, Liverpool got two yesterday (both suspect)

I don't do the conspiracy theory brick but there is a reality of Pep/Klopp/Arteta doing the SAF media manipulation/pressure on the system, combined with the very real (never acknowledged) brick that in certain parts of this country, certain fans will actually turn up at refs houses and/or threaten them.

Neketiah on Vicario, Cash on Bentancur, recent tackle on Deki, give me 10 minutes and I could probably come up with 6-7 red cards we didn't get this season. Even Sunday, Bournemouth's #19 should have been off twice for second yellow and ref bottled it, and this is about the third time in December that the ref has bottled it so hard on the second yellow the opposition manager has done an early sub (knowing the next one is off).
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I still don't buy it, I can't remember a card that wasn't a card for us bar a shoulder barge by Udogie.

We don't go down in the box and we haven't had any questionable hand balls get called wrong.

We can argue if others get punishments they deserve but then you could argue Sheffield United didn't against us, is that down to manager profile and influence or is it just incompetence overall?

All in all my point is have we got what we deserve in terms of punishment, even as a romero supporter eve I have to say we have been masters of our own issues.

The rest isn't a conspiracy theory, it's been a real issue for us and its been our own doing IMO
 
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Grays_1890 said:
I still don't buy it, I can't remember a card that wasn't a card for us bar a shoulder barge by Udogie.

We don't go down in the box and we haven't had any questionable hand balls get called wrong.

We can argue if others get what they deserve but then you could argue Sheffield United didn't against us, is that down to manager profile and influence or is it just incompetence overall?

All in all my point is have we got what we deserve in terms of punishment, even as a romero supporter eve I have to say we have been masters of our own issues.

The rest isn't a conspiracy theory, it's been a real issue for us and its been our own doing IMO
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General incompetence is a theme but you can't just dismiss data as not in line with your anecdotal view.

Every single game I go to, we get carded for much softer tackles, and other teams "get away" with brick, it's tiresome.
 
Raziel said:
General incompetence is a theme but you can't just dismiss data as not in line with your anecdotal view.

Every single game I go to, we get carded for much softer tackles, and other teams "get away" with brick, it's tiresome.
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Its not anecdotal though, we have deserved what we have got and there will always be teams that have worse disciplinary records than others, its not a conspiracy then, its not now.

Our lack of discipline has been an issue
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its not anecdotal though, we have deserved what we have got and there will always be teams that have worse disciplinary records than others, its not a conspiracy then, its not now.

Our lack of discipline has been an issue
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I agree. Nothing wrong with being robust and liking a tackle but we cost ourselves in the Chelsea game with our lack of discipline. Romero was lucky to get away with a yellow card against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I always say a team is a reflection of the manager/coach. We were a cynical, tough side under poch as well.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I agree. Nothing wrong with being robust and liking a tackle but we cost ourselves in the Chelsea game with our lack of discipline. Romero was lucky to get away with a yellow card against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I always say a team is a reflection of the manager/coach. We were a cynical, tough side under poch as well.
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Exactly, I'm ok with a bite, I've defended Romero robustly before but this season we have picked up silly avoidable issues with Udogie and Biss being major in that too.

I would rather we sort that than sook on about what and doesnt happen with others as we can control our side.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I still don't buy it, I can't remember a card that wasn't a card for us bar a shoulder barge by Udogie.

We don't go down in the box and we haven't had any questionable hand balls get called wrong.

We can argue if others get what they deserve but then you could argue Sheffield United didn't against us, is that down to manager profile and influence or is it just incompetence overall?

All in all my point is have we got what we deserve in terms of punishment, even as a romero supporter eve I have to say we have been masters of our own issues.

The rest isn't a conspiracy theory, it's been a real issue for us and its been our own doing IMO
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Maddison penalty vs Sheffield was clear and should have been given

The Brentford penalty was a penalty… but fouled player held the wrong ankle. That indicates to me he is simulating things

The Romero handball vs united was a clear pen, but so was the foul on him later (the next challenge is the one that hurt Maddison and is why he is out now)

We have a LOT of players booked for first offence whilst suffering repeat offenders get away with it against us

It’s the way we play that doesn’t help on that front but also out challenges are generally reactionary because of that too. Where as the repeat fouling is tactical and the smart teams even pass the fouls around (Chelsea and Villa did that)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maddison penalty vs Sheffield was clear and should have been given

The Brentford penalty was a penalty… but fouled player held the wrong ankle. That indicates to me he is simulating things

The Romero handball vs united was a clear pen, but so was the foul on him later (the next challenge is the one that hurt Maddison and is why he is out now)

We have a LOT of players booked for first offence whilst suffering repeat offenders get away with it against us

It’s the way we play that doesn’t help on that front but also out challenges are generally reactionary because of that too. Where as the repeat fouling is tactical and the smart teams even pass the fouls around (Chelsea and Villa did that)
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We get abit sulky and lash out at times, same as when we went behind in a few games. It's not a major thing but on the subject matter we do need to do better.

I'm not really bothered about what happens woth other clubs as I don't also buy the preference argument either, seen both Arsenal and Liverpool get and be on the receiving end of awful decisions.

As someone said the refs are incompetent this season, that's damaging everyone, all we can do is control what we do
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maddison penalty vs Sheffield was clear and should have been given

The Brentford penalty was a penalty… but fouled player held the wrong ankle. That indicates to me he is simulating things

The Romero handball vs united was a clear pen, but so was the foul on him later (the next challenge is the one that hurt Maddison and is why he is out now)

We have a LOT of players booked for first offence whilst suffering repeat offenders get away with it against us

It’s the way we play that doesn’t help on that front but also out challenges are generally reactionary because of that too. Where as the repeat fouling is tactical and the smart teams even pass the fouls around (Chelsea and Villa did that)
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All/some of that may be true but the Chelsea game was the most costly of the season and we largely did that to ourselves when we decided to start kicking everyone. We were too pumped up for that game.
 
Our biggest enemy in this regard has been inconsistency in reffing. The Udogie/Chelsea thing came (IMO) as a result of persistent bad fouling by Chelsea which went unpunished. I think Romero also rises to that. I am not sure there is a conspiracy more than unfortunately, the way we play invites some sides to kick us for the first 20-30 mins knowing refs are under a gebneral mandate to try and 'let the game flow'...when refs follow through on that, well, some of ours figure that's the 'meter' of the game, only to get punished fast as refs feel that 20-30 min period is gone and it's time to 'ref' a little more 'to the old book'...
 
Jurgen the German said:
All/some of that may be true but the Chelsea game was the most costly of the season and we largely did that to ourselves when we decided to start kicking everyone. We were too pumped up for that game.
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Again, the first 20 minutes were terribly handled by Oliver, who allowed persistent bad fouls on Maddison, Son and others. Make no mistake, I agree with all the cards we got in that one, I just think Oliver should've handed out at least 4 yellows to Chelsea before Udogie's, including a double yellow on Caicedo.
 
thfcsteff said:
Again, the first 20 minutes were terribly handled by Oliver, who allowed persistent bad fouls on Maddison, Son and others. Make no mistake, I agree with all the cards we got in that one, I just think Oliver should've handed out at least 4 yellows to Chelsea before Udogie's, including a double yellow on Caicedo.
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That’s the kicker
The elbow from Rhys James was a red yet this season they literally let them go on VAR which I don’t get
they shared the fouls around really smartly in that game which is why they didn’t get carded
 
thfcsteff said:
Again, the first 20 minutes were terribly handled by Oliver, who allowed persistent bad fouls on Maddison, Son and others. Make no mistake, I agree with all the cards we got in that one, I just think Oliver should've handed out at least 4 yellows to Chelsea before Udogie's, including a double yellow on Caicedo.
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I think we can all be right with regard to saying we have to control our tackles. But in all games this season, the other teams have just gotten away with fouls and in some games didn't get their first yellow until like 85min.

It's incompetent/unfair/conspiracy. Whatever. The fact is I can't understand how one team can get away with like 15 fouls and only get 1 card. While we may commit 5 and get 3 yellows. Statistically that is quite amazing isn't it?? We have been lucky not to see straight Reds. But generally the refs have really wound me up

I don't watch all other games for 90min so can't mention what other fans go thru. But each team has been done I'm sure
 
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