ENIC

[metalgear]

That's all that matters really in business, cheap large serviceable debts open so many avenues.

Only issue is you need a solid product that will service that debt. If people stop attending home games on protest of Levy .... he will have no choice but to walk. However that's not going to happen is it?

true.

but the longer enic stays with its conservative strategy and the result is always a barely top-4 competitive squad -the longer our history as underachievers and that will impact sponsorships. also fan recruitment globally is really the opportunity to tackle now for future revenues. winning something usually helps a lot in putting spurs on the global map.

on the bright side as the debt gets paid down the more financial room would ther be to invest in players. might take 10- 20 years since its long term debt.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

true.

but the longer enic stays with its conservative strategy and the result is always a barely top-4 competitive squad -the longer our history as underachievers and that will impact sponsorships. also fan recruitment globally is really the opportunity to tackle now for future revenues. winning something usually helps a lot in putting spurs on the global map.

on the bright side as the debt gets paid down the more financial room would ther be to invest in players. might take 10- 20 years since its long term debt.

But we are investing in players
We’re investing so much that we actually are now regularly spending more than city and pool
What we haven’t done as well as those two is sell

The other thing that I’m sure that will happen is when we do sell some players….people will complain that we didn’t get enough money for them compared to other teams and sue that as a stick

The club let Doherty go at a cost and spurs fans saw it as negative… that says it all

And on the subject of the debt. The additional events cover the cost of the interest. They will happen continuously. The club will also sign naming rights at some point (someone will jump in and critique again I’m sure). And that would be part of a capital payment contribution every year.

The debt on the ground and other things isn’t hindering investment

What is, is players brought in the past, that we still owe money for, who are brick and not adding anything to the club. That’s what key

Selling some of the dead wood will help bit it’s been difficult as they have flopped so have less value, they are paid really well, and the markets that want them don’t have the money unless it filters down from the prem

So far we haven’t seen all this massive money that some fans think we have end up in levy’s wallet or joes boat. That could happen though so we shouldn’t write off the idea

What we have seen is evidence that the ground and the new income is funding purchases… unfortunately it’s included some crap, expensive ones

 

[DubSpur]

not sure. i hear we got the best rates. servicing debt is important and i believe both man u and spurs have no problems with it. but from the chart man u has more transfer debt than us and perhaps that is the bigger question.

also, man u and barca have more debt in playte transfers tha "financial" which i believe are fixed assets like stadiums etc.

the glazers are said to put the club in massive debt, draw dividends but are able to invest heavily into player stock time after time.

enic has put the club in even more debt, don't take out dividents (but pay themselves handsome salaries and bonuses) and we've marginally increased investments in player stock.

Utd are having issues over the debt. With interest rates rising the interest they are paying has also increased and their debt has increased.
Old Trafford is falling apart and needs major renovation or a rebuild.

Our debt is at a guaranteed low rate over ~25 years.

If you were offered a loan of 10 million, could use that to make 2 million a year and had to pay back 1.1 million a year for 10 years would you do it?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Utd are having issues over the debt. With interest rates rising the interest they are paying has also increased and their debt has increased.
Old Trafford is falling apart and needs major renovation or a rebuild.

Our debt is at a guaranteed low rate over ~25 years.

If you were offered a loan of 10 million, could use that to make 2 million a year and had to pay back 1.1 million a year for 10 years would you do it?

But but but we’re not investing
It’s clear we’re not
We haven’t brought any players
And the only thing that’s happening is Beyoncé is coming to give Daniel a lap dance

 

[Lilbaz]

not sure. i hear we got the best rates. servicing debt is important and i believe both man u and spurs have no problems with it. but from the chart man u has more transfer debt than us and perhaps that is the bigger question.

also, man u and barca have more debt in playte transfers tha "financial" which i believe are fixed assets like stadiums etc.

the glazers are said to put the club in massive debt, draw dividends but are able to invest heavily into player stock time after time.

enic has put the club in even more debt, don't take out dividents (but pay themselves handsome salaries and bonuses) and we've marginally increased investments in player stock.

As of last financials we pay around £20m a year interest. Man utds financials are released quarterly. They paid £31m interest in the last quarter alone due to their debt being linked to interest rates (which have since gone up). Debt has risen to £680m (they have drawn another £100m since), (also doesn't include transfer debt as far as i'm aware).

https://swissramble.substack.com/p/manchester-united-finances-q1-202223

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Debt is huge. If anyone buys spurs its buying over crazy levels of debt. No success on the pitch yet, more issues with staff and team, we probably look like a good target for money launderers. Can't imagine what our monthly installments are like. I know we are safe as cash flow is good, but our debt levels are at the levl of Man U and Brighton's compbined.

It's £20m a year.

But hey, let's not forget we got something tangible for it.

Our debt at the rates we have actually makes us more attractive. A new buyer inherits that debt (and likely gets a saving on the purchase price). They benefit from the infrastructure already being built, providing a revenue stream that underpins things yearly, plus the debt cost is at a rate that no-one is going to see again for 10-20 years.

 

[johnola]

It’s interesting very few people commenting on the debt talk about paying it down.

But I am in the same position with my household finances. I can pay off my interest only mortgage early but actually I can get a better return on the money over and above the interest I pay on it.

Shame in a way it’s not £1200 million (although it felt like that at the outset).

Inflation also eats away at the real value of debt and I believe Spurs have bonded their low interest rates to the longer term - 20 years iirc. So come 2040 when the bank comes calling for their money we should easily be able to stump it up from inflated revenues.

Edited amount of debt

 

[braineclipse]

It's £20m a year.

But hey, let's not forget we got something tangible for it.

Our debt at the rates we have actually makes us more attractive. A new buyer inherits that debt (and likely gets a saving on the purchase price). They benefit from the infrastructure already being built, providing a revenue stream that underpins things yearly, plus the debt cost is at a rate that no-one is going to see again for 10-20 years.

I don't know much about finances, but I agree with you.

Seems to me like we're now in the place where the stadium not only gives us the extra revenue to service that debt, but also gives us more on top of that to spend on the team/club. That's a good thing compared to the alternative of still being in the old stadium.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't know much about finances, but I agree with you.

Seems to me like we're now in the place where the stadium not only gives us the extra revenue to service that debt, but also gives us more on top of that to spend on the team/club. That's a good thing compared to the alternative of still being in the old stadium.

It’s a huge thing
It’s An attraction to players and managers too
We don’t have recent history to sell players on and we don’t have a philosophy either currently

 

[metalgear]

The debt is tied to plenty of non footballing assets... So the buyer needs to want those as well.

I think in 20 years we are going to be in a much better position that's right. Along the way we will incrementally increase investment in players.

Looking forward to winning somethimg in 2040. Meanwhile will have to accept the joy and agony of flirting with champions league football.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

The debt is tied to plenty of non footballing assets... So the buyer needs to want those as well.

I think in 20 years we are going to be in a much better position that's right. Along the way we will incrementally increase investment in players.

Looking forward to winning somethimg in 2040. Meanwhile will have to accept the joy and agony of flirting with champions league football.

What non footballing assets are you referring to?

also, I grew up as a Spurs supporter dreaming of flirting with champions league football, I thank Levy and ENIC for providing it.

 

[braineclipse]

The debt is tied to plenty of non footballing assets... So the buyer needs to want those as well.

I think in 20 years we are going to be in a much better position that's right. Along the way we will incrementally increase investment in players.

Looking forward to winning somethimg in 2040. Meanwhile will have to accept the joy and agony of flirting with champions league football.

Why does the debt mean that?

Spent 200m in the summer. Committed to almost 50m in January (paraphrasing the club's reply to the Trust). All without any significant outgoings. We have players that we would be happy to sell come the summer that should/could bring in significant fees in total.

Now the stadium makes us financially stronger than we were before and during our best period under Pochettino. Why can't this added financial strength lead to at least similar success on the pitch as we had when we were in a weaker financial position? Or even more?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Mate, if you feel like Joao Felix, Christopher Nkunku and (insert Chelsea buy here) aren't enough to score, nothing will ever be enough.

If we were struggling to score and went out and brought in Joao Felix, who had moved to Atletico as thr world's most coveted teenage forward for upwards of 125m just a couple of years ago, imo, you'd applaud it as a job well done. Same applies here.

Still feel the same after last nights result?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The debt is tied to plenty of non footballing assets... So the buyer needs to want those as well.

I think in 20 years we are going to be in a much better position that's right. Along the way we will incrementally increase investment in players.

Looking forward to winning somethimg in 2040. Meanwhile will have to accept the joy and agony of flirting with champions league football.

Your lost again fella
The debt is secured in the stadium by the clubs income. Anyone buying us would want the stadium and training ground
We are spending more money on the team now than Pool and City
We’re in the champions league
So what’s wrong?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It’s interesting very few people commenting on the debt talk about paying it down.

But I am in the same position with my household finances. I can pay off my interest only mortgage early but actually I can get a better return on the money over and above the interest I pay on it.

Shame in a way it’s not £1200 million (although it felt like that at the outset).

Inflation also eats away at the real value of debt and I believe Spurs have bonded their low interest rates to the longer term - 20 years iirc. So come 2040 when the bank comes calling for their money we should easily be able to stump it up from inflated revenues.

Edited amount of debt

Ive always said this.

After problems with the delays to the stadium, that at the time cost us. We have actually lucked out on many fronts.
1. We got the thing completed before COVID. Imagine the logistical issues if we were not finished by the time COVID showed up.
2. The cost and availability of materials would have been a weighty headache during covid.
3. We refinanced just at the last knockings of cheap interest rates. And had 'normal' profitable operational years to show lenders we were a safe (good) bet.
4.Inflation then turns up right on que to help inflate away that pile of debt.

As you say, there is no motivation to pay the debt off. We may make payments if we have some surplus, but as you suggest what would be the point. Instant access savings rate is at 2.75% which is similar to our bond average payments rate.

When the bullet payment is called for, we dont have to pay it, we can refinance. Banks like exemplary payers, it's solid income for them.

 

[metalgear]

well i wish that for the world record for debt for a football club, we can afford to spend on players to comfortably stay in the top four.
lost? i don't know about you I am are rooting for thfc winning football; not sucking up to enic's business model.

Your lost again fella
The debt is secured in the stadium by the clubs income. Anyone buying us would want the stadium and training ground
We are spending more money on the team now than Pool and City
We’re in the champions league
So what’s wrong?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The debt is tied to plenty of non footballing assets... So the buyer needs to want those as well.

You're down the twitter rabbit hole, aren't you?

 

[johnola]

Why does the debt mean that?

Spent 200m in the summer. Committed to almost 50m in January (paraphrasing the club's reply to the Trust). All without any significant outgoings. We have players that we would be happy to sell come the summer that should/could bring in significant fees in total.

Now the stadium makes us financially stronger than we were before and during our best period under Pochettino. Why can't this added financial strength lead to at least similar success on the pitch as we had when we were in a weaker financial position? Or even more?

We are still not in the market for the best players of the best clubs.

We should be hunting down the top assets of Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Madrid.

The premier league has won a war it didn’t even know it was fighting, and we have to capitalise.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

well i wish that for the world record for debt for a football club, we can afford to spend on players to comfortably stay in the top four.
lost? i don't know about you I am are rooting for thfc winning football; not sucking up to enic's business model.

Most of the debt has come about because we have built the training ground and stadium.
So I can take that debt away, along with the stadium and training ground.

So we're back in the old Lane. How are you going to carry out YOUR plan now?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

well i wish that for the world record for debt for a football club, we can afford to spend on players to comfortably stay in the top four.
lost? i don't know about you I am are rooting for thfc winning football; not sucking up to enic's business model.

we can afford to spend on players
We have and we are doing thag
What we can’t do is manage what other clubs do
The business model is why we can invest
The issue remains that it’s a restricted model as it’s self sustaining unlike being funded by a country for example
You really seem to act as though we haven’t brought any players. I just don’t get it TBH