monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Lucky Russians
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Putin & Russia
- Thread starter Rorschach
- Start date
Bullet
Luka Modric
Poland are too chicken to give them directly to UKR.
USA are wary of getting too involved.
US defence department spokesman John Kirby has rejected Poland's surprise offer to hand over its military jet fleet to the US - rather than Ukraine.
"As we have said, the decision about whether to transfer Polish-owned planes to Ukraine is ultimately one for the Polish government," Kirby said in a statement on Tuesday, adding that "Poland's proposal shows just some of the complexities this issue presents".
"The prospect of fighter jets 'at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America' departing from a US/Nato base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire Nato alliance," he said.
"It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other Nato allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland's proposal is a tenable one."
you see if the US won’t take the lead here how can you expect Poland to? Truth is article 5 has never been tested, Putin knows this. And if the US does t show leadership here then why should Poland?
US profited greatly from WW2 not sure they ain’t doing the same here.
or else they don’t fancy taking on anything more than Arab goat farmers that they can bomb from a distance without any serious and equal(ish) blowback.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
The single biggest issue is that outside the CIA, no-one beyond a few in Moscow actually know what is in Putin’s mind at any given moment.So every step right now has to be treated like walking through a minefield, as unfair and distasteful as that might seem. It’s easy to slag the US off here (and to be clear, I think their behaviour in the Gulf Wars -in even setting them up!-is appalling) but if they go all gung-military-ho here, it risks the final domino in Putin’s plan to mass destabilize the world. There are already people tinkled off about the energy prices, any military action will result in an expanded conflict which will see things destabilized for a long time at best; we are also looking at someone who could well choose a small nuclear option to send a message (ironic given that the only nation to have ever done this -twice- was the US themselves), but this is such an enormously delicate moment in all this horror that one false move could see it all get so much worse.
That -I believe- is the cold reality.
I'm amazed that Ukrainian fighter aren't already flying out of safe bases in Europe.
That just makes perfect tactical sense - have them base outside of Russia's reach and fly in when required. I don't know what the operational ranges on those Migs are but if the UK is close enough we should absolutely be helping there.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
Surely having 20 Migs etc is no different/or better than having an array of SAM's stationed around the cities/targets. The Stingers can be shot off the shoulder. We can load Ukraine up with these endlessly, are easy to operate and offer little political escalation in comparison to lending jets and where they fly in and out of.
SAMs are great for air defence, they can't take out the artillery that are flattening cities or the tanks queuing up to drive into them.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Normal people rarely eat out for example. Moscow has some money but the vast majority of people don’t have a big disposable income, the young earning 10-15k a year maybe. A good senior job is bringing home 20-25k appx.
The thing is even if you put a “No War” note in your window you’ll be locked up for a fortnight on principle. The authorities hit hard to ensure no one does make a stand. More than one person protesting is illegal and you can be carted off etc.
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ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
So why are they so desperate for a no fly zone, surely something evil is arriving by air?
Beyond missiles, artillery only has so much range.
I suspect it's because they want NATO involved in the war. Once they are, it's as good as over.
What they really need is a no fly zone for Russian aircraft - that's what we and they should be imposing.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
That's disappointing but this plane swap has been off and on a few times. A new paint job and sneak them in by the back door.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Why is not releasing more war disappointing? Nato has played its role in this war too. Surely de-escalation is preferable?
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Are you against the west supplying arms to Ukraine?
I’m not suggesting that, I’m suggesting the US takes more of a lead role.
Putin isn't going to de-escalate no matter what is said or done. Either the Russian military is defeated or he's taken out by his own.
It's easy to say that NATO should waltz in and end it, but the casualties from that could be much worse than what we're seeing now. It will take a lot more information than any of us are privy too to make a decision on that.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.
We should have learnt that from Iraq and also when Mr H invaded Poland(this time Mr P invading Ukraine)
Diamond Lights
Didier Zokora
amazing how well received it is for regular people to go to Ukraine and take part in a war compared to when this happened in Iraq or Syria.
That´ll be because they aren´t joining a mental religious death cult
Diamond Lights
Didier Zokora
Don't disagree. But it's telling how different its viewed for the same basic issue. I'm sure people won't get their citizenship revoked for taking part.