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*** Tottenham Hotspur v South Coast Big Club ***

Pirate55 said:
And that, gentlemen, in a single game sums up precisely why we need a bullying centre forward. We were frankly abysmal in the first half. Every time it went up to Kane and Son , it came straight back at us. No hold up play.

In the second half when we were forced to put in plenty of crosses, no one to win the ball in the air.

A game of two halves - both pointing up the desperate need for a different type of centre forward to what we currently have.
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I agree it would have been useful, but it's not without difficulties.

Where would this bullying centre forward play?

I assume dropping Son or Kane is off the table? I also assume playing Kane anywhere other than as the central striker is we play as with three up front is off the table?

So front three with a bullying centre forward playing as the right sided forward?

Who do you have in mind that could play that role? Adama Traore comes to my mind, but he's not really a target man, definitely can be a bully though. Is Vlahovic a bullying centre forward in your opinion?

Or just as an option from the bench? In that case it obviously doesn't fix the issue in the first half. But yeah, an option. If good enough, but he has to be really good in addition to being a bully.
 
harr1984 said:
The point is, we have had many offside marginal calls go for us this season. Check through these match threads, loads of times on replays posters go ‘oo that could be offside’ followed by ‘that was close’ when a goal is given. You don’t see anyone analysing the lines and how thick they are then do you, it’s just accepted. This time it’s gone against us, it happens - time to move on…..
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I try not to spend too much time in the match threads to be honest, certainly don’t go back through to read them. Can’t think of an offside call this season where we were awarded the goal that was actually off?
 
braineclipse said:
I agree it would have been useful, but it's not without difficulties.

Where would this bullying centre forward play?

I assume dropping Son or Kane is off the table? I also assume playing Kane anywhere other than as the central striker is we play as with three up front is off the table?

So front three with a bullying centre forward playing as the right sided forward?

Who do you have in mind that could play that role? Adama Traore comes to my mind, but he's not really a target man, definitely can be a bully though. Is Vlahovic a bullying centre forward in your opinion?

Or just as an option from the bench? In that case it obviously doesn't fix the issue in the first half. But yeah, an option. If good enough, but he has to be really good in addition to being a bully.
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The point I am making is that while Kane is a great finisher, he has seemingly lost the will to take on the physical mantle of leading the line effectively against strong centre halves. I maintain that this is the principal reason we start games slowly and appear not to be able to keep the ball effectively. Watch the first half yesterday for ample evidence of this.

I would therefore play Kane slightly behind a battering ram centre forward in a role he seems to now relish anyway coming deeper and spreading the play. Son would then have the same role as he does now - coming in from the flanks and running in behind.

This would also give us much greater rotation options and not be so reliant on goals from Kane and Son. It would totally add another dimension to our play and be particularly useful when we are chasing games like yesterday. Look at the extra dimension Lukaku adds to Chelsea and Jota to Liverpool.

Vlahovic may well be the answer.
 
Pirate55 said:
The point I am making is that while Kane is a great finisher, he has seemingly lost the will to take on the physical mantle of leading the line effectively against strong centre halves. I maintain that this is the principal reason we start games slowly and appear not to be able to keep the ball effectively. Watch the first half yesterday for ample evidence of this.

I would therefore play Kane slightly behind a battering ram centre forward in a role he seems to now relish anyway coming deeper and spreading the play. Son would then have the same role as he does now - coming in from the flanks and running in behind.

This would also give us much greater rotation options and not be so reliant on goals from Kane and Son. It would totally add another dimension to our play and be particularly useful when we are chasing games like yesterday. Look at the extra dimension Lukaku adds to Chelsea and Jota to Liverpool.

Vlahovic may well be the answer.
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So nobody on the right hand side?

You'd sacrifice an entire area of the pitch to double up with one of the world's best strikers?
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I cant see Conte changing his preferred system, he has a very successful career playing a certain way and hes not going to change. Give him the right players and he will win things.
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Agree fully. Just trying to understand how Pirate suggests we get Son, Kane, a battering ram striker and Moura into the same lineup.
 
scaramanga said:
So nobody on the right hand side?

You'd sacrifice an entire area of the pitch to double up with one of the world's best strikers?
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I think means something like

Son. CF. Moura

Kane

Hojberg. Skipp



Could work, I'd rather have a creator cum wing forward on the right. Someone in the Mahrez mould ideally. Creativity, dribbling and goal threat. I still think Koita could be a very option for the as well the fact he can play CF and LWF as well.
 
Bishop said:
I think means something like

Son. CF. Moura

Kane

Hojberg. Skipp



Could work, I'd rather have a creator cum wing forward on the right. Someone in the Mahrez mould ideally. Creativity, dribbling and goal threat. I still think Koita could be a very option for the as well the fact he can play CF and LWF as well.
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So the world's best forward in midfield? Or are we switching to the 2 man midfield that gives us no possession?

Big bullying CF, no midfield, shall we have the groundsman churn up the pitch whilst we're at it?
 
For teams which sit back or have 10 men, we don’t need two holding midfielders with three centr backs. So I would like to see:

……………………. New CF………………….

Son…….,,……..,,Kane……………….Moura

Reggie……………Skipp/PEH………….Royal

Davies……………Dier………..Sanchez

………………….. Lloris…………………..

Totally balanced. Two left footed defenders/Wingbacks and two right footed defenders/ wingbacks. Keeps three at the back. Offers width through the wingbacks and wide forwards. Offers strength and hold up through the new cf and guile and passing from Kane. Goals aplenty in that team and formation. Ideal for breaking down teams intent on only defending against us.
 
Pirate55 said:
For teams which sit back or have 10 men, we don’t need two holding midfielders with three centr backs. So I would like to see:

……………………. New CF………………….

Son…….,,……..,,Kane……………….Moura

Reggie……………Skipp/PEH………….Royal

Davies……………Dier………..Sanchez

………………….. Lloris…………………..

Totally balanced. Two left footed defenders/Wingbacks and two right footed defenders/ wingbacks. Keeps three at the back. Offers width through the wingbacks and wide forwards. Offers strength and hold up through the new cf and guile and passing from Kane. Goals aplenty in that team and formation. Ideal for breaking down teams intent on only defending against us.
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People talk as if Kane has to be in the box all the time, yet Kane was top goalscorer and assister in the league playing deeper. It is a valid point that Kane no longer holds the ball up well, I’ve noticed this and something needs to be done as it does impact us…..
 
I’d play Kane deeper, he’s our most creative passer, creating chances is more important than being able to take them.

He needs to be in the game more, he’s been much better recently but he spent the first few months of the season being completely useless.
 
Pirate55 said:
For teams which sit back or have 10 men, we don’t need two holding midfielders with three centr backs. So I would like to see:

……………………. New CF………………….

Son…….,,……..,,Kane……………….Moura

Reggie……………Skipp/PEH………….Royal

Davies……………Dier………..Sanchez

………………….. Lloris…………………..

Totally balanced. Two left footed defenders/Wingbacks and two right footed defenders/ wingbacks. Keeps three at the back. Offers width through the wingbacks and wide forwards. Offers strength and hold up through the new cf and guile and passing from Kane. Goals aplenty in that team and formation. Ideal for breaking down teams intent on only defending against us.
Click to expand...

One central midfielder?

Second half against Southampton with them playing with 10 men, sure, maybe. Most other games and game states, no for me.

You mentioned the first half yesterday as something a battering ram striker would improve on. Would you have seen us start the game like this yesterday?

Have you ever seen Conte played a 3-3-4/3-3-3-1? Who have you seen play like this? I feel like that answer is Bielsa at some point? But even him I'm not sure.

If your solution is to buy a player with a plan to play a formation and style that Conte just doesn't play that's not a solution imo.
 
harr1984 said:
People talk as if Kane has to be in the box all the time, yet Kane was top goalscorer and assister in the league playing deeper. It is a valid point that Kane no longer holds the ball up well, I’ve noticed this and something needs to be done as it does impact us…..
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Baleforce said:
I’d play Kane deeper, he’s our most creative passer, creating chances is more important than being able to take them.

He needs to be in the game more, he’s been much better recently but he spent the first few months of the season being completely useless.
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I think Kane is finding that balance pretty well at the moment.

Kane droppping deep to play through runners going beyond him works in part because of the "dropping deep" and "runners beyond him" parts. Kane's movement causes difficult situations for centre backs, stick with him leaving space for Son to run into or let Kane drop giving him space and time in between the lines.

A deeper starting position doesn't mean he gets to do more of what works for him in deeper areas. Could just add easily mean less of it.

Kane being next to a defensive midfielder to start with makes for much easier decision making for opponents. Defensive midfielder just sticks to him. Defenders can focus on covering space.

When and how opposition centre backs should hand Kane off to a midfielder is a problem for them. Let's not be too eager to remove a problem for opponents.
 
braineclipse said:
I think Kane is finding that balance pretty well at the moment.

Kane droppping deep to play through runners going beyond him works in part because of the "dropping deep" and "runners beyond him" parts. Kane's movement causes difficult situations for centre backs, stick with him leaving space for Son to run into or let Kane drop giving him space and time in between the lines.

A deeper starting position doesn't mean he gets to do more of what works for him in deeper areas. Could just add easily mean less of it.

Kane being next to a defensive midfielder to start with makes for much easier decision making for opponents. Defensive midfielder just sticks to him. Defenders can focus on covering space.

When and how opposition centre backs should hand Kane off to a midfielder is a problem for them. Let's not be too eager to remove a problem for opponents.
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We do need to find a way to get his numbers back up to where they should they be though.
 
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