Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Jurgen the German]

I've answered your questions mate, i think he developed his game in the areas that mattered in the new role he was being asked to play - i don't think he played that role to the same level he played at when he was used in the front four and i think that some pundits and some supporters can't quite grasp that as is evidenced with the questions you keep asking in this exchange regarding his improvement in the final third - has he improved in the final third? Let me see him play there for a run of games and i will tell you what i think? I think the two games he started recently show that there's still a player in there who is creative, works hard off the ball and links well with team mates.

I don't care for what Southgate does, most England fans seem to think he's wasting the talent available to him - so why should we value anything he does? That said Southgate was using Dele in CM, was he doing that by coincidence or wss it because that is where he was playing for Spurs on a more regular basis? If he felt there were better options available to him for that position then i don't think that supports your argument regarding Dele in the final third tbh

as for Mourinho the whole issue is that myself and others think Dele is being mistreated, so again it proves nothing - especially since he values attackers defensive attributes over their attacking contributions.

Well from memory he hasn’t played at CM on a consistent basis for a long time. He played in the front four consistently during the last year or so of Poch’s reign at the very least. I haven’t seen anything during that period up until now that shows me that he is a better player in that position than he was in his first two seasons. He’s been ok when selected this season. Has he been any worse than Moura or Bergwijn? Honestly I’d say no but at the same time he doesn’t enough to convince me he should be in the team on a consistent basis. I’d give him a run in the side because at this point Moura and Bergwijn haven’t done enough to be first choice either so I’d be happy for Jose to rotate bale and Alli and see who comes out on top. But I completely disagree with your hypothesis that he was played out of position for the majority of the 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20 seasons and that he has developed as a front four player.

 

[parklane1]

That’s a fair argument. My issue isn’t with whether Jose has him in or out of the team. Jose wants to win so he’ll pick whoever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning. He’d pick Hitler and Stalin as his front two if he thought that’d work so I think Jose genuinely thinks Dele isn’t good enough for his team. That’s his right as the manager.

It’s the public digging out of Dele and the fact that he doesn’t treat anyone else the same that I object to.

Not sure that is really true, he has a way of saying things about a lot of players at several clubs but that is just the way he is. At the moment Dele ( and i have said on here that he is a big talent so i have no axe to grind with him) just does not seem to do what Jose wants from his players.

I think Jose has made it clear that he wants Dele to cut out a lot of his flicks and tricks, he has left him out of the team to try and impress that on him. So he brought him back last night and what did Dele do to show him that he had taken his advice on board, just more flicks and tricks and that is not going to work if Dele really wants to be a regular again.

I rate Dele highly but unless he is willing to do what Jose wants from him then there is no one to blame apart from Dele himself.

 

[billyiddo]

Well from memory he hasn’t played at CM on a consistent basis for a long time. He played in the front four consistently during the last year or so of Poch’s reign at the very least. I haven’t seen anything during that period up until now that shows me that he is a better player in that position than he was in his first two seasons. He’s been ok when selected this season. Has he been any worse than Moura or Bergwijn? Honestly I’d say no but at the same time he doesn’t enough to convince me he should be in the team on a consistent basis. I’d give him a run in the side because at this point Moura and Bergwijn haven’t done enough to be first choice either so I’d be happy for Jose to rotate bale and Alli and see who comes out on top. But I completely disagree with your hypothesis that he was played out of position for the majority of the 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20 seasons and that he has developed as a front four player.

Fair enough if you don't see the change in roles he had it's no wonder you are scratching your head as to why his game in the final third hasn't progressed. Best we leave it there i suppose.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Not sure that is really true, he has a way of saying things about a lot of players at several clubs but that is just the way he is. At the moment Dele ( and i have said on here that he is a big talent so i have no axe to grind with him) just does not seem to do what Jose wants from his players.

I think Jose has made it clear that he wants Dele to cut out a lot of his flicks and tricks, he has left him out of the team to try and impress that on him. So he brought him back last night and what did Dele do to show him that he had taken his advice on board, just more flicks and tricks and that is not going to work if Dele really wants to be a regular again.

I rate Dele highly but unless he is willing to do what Jose wants from him then there is no one to blame apart from Dele himself.

Jose didn’t dig Lloris out for Palace, he didn’t dig Aurier out against Leicester, he didn’t dig Moura out against Leicester. They made worse mistakes than the one Dele was criticised for. Therefore, if he’s not digging everyone out for mistakes, he’s treating Dele differently. That’s wrong.

The issue isn’t Deles ability, attitude or ability to follow instruction. It’s the managers habit of singling individuals out unfairly.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Fair enough if you don't see the change in roles he had it's no wonder you are scratching your head as to why his game in the final third hasn't progressed. Best we leave it there i suppose.

But you’re advocating that he has played at CM for 3 years which isn’t true. He’s played plenty of games in the front four. I’m not going to go through all every game but I’d be willing to bet he’s played more games in the front four than he has at CM. And when has has played in the front four he hasn’t progressed.

 

[parklane1]

Jose didn’t dig Lloris out for Palace, he didn’t dig Aurier out against Leicester, he didn’t dig Moura out against Leicester. They made worse mistakes than the one Dele was criticised for. Therefore, if he’s not digging everyone out for mistakes, he’s treating Dele differently. That’s wrong.

The issue isn’t Deles ability, attitude or ability to follow instruction. It’s the managers habit of singling individuals out unfairly.

All those things were mistakes by players and if he or any manager had to dig out players every time they made a mistake they would never have time to do anything. The difference with Dele is that its the flicks and tricks way he plays which SEEMS to annoy Jose and Dele does not seem to get the message( or ignores it totally).

All players make mistakes and if any of them fail to stop making the same ones then the manager is right to try and stop that, Dele has obviously been told to stop some of the tricks he does and IF he fails to do that then he is opening up himself to be criticised by any manager.

 

[90291Spur]

Jose didn’t dig Lloris out for Palace, he didn’t dig Aurier out against Leicester, he didn’t dig Moura out against Leicester. They made worse mistakes than the one Dele was criticised for. Therefore, if he’s not digging everyone out for mistakes, he’s treating Dele differently. That’s wrong.

The issue isn’t Deles ability, attitude or ability to follow instruction. It’s the managers habit of singling individuals out unfairly.

I agree with you. Some people think he’s a genius at handling people and that dele needs a public flogging. We shall see. I’m impressed dele and his management are keeping quiet.
But this sort of Jose is the Jose I’m not keen on.

 

[90291Spur]

All those things were mistakes by players and if he or any manager had to dig out players every time they made a mistake they would never have time to do anything. The difference with Dele is that its the flicks and tricks way he plays which SEEMS to annoy Jose and Dele does not seem to get the message( or ignores it totally).

All players make mistakes and if any of them fail to stop making the same ones then the manager is right to try and stop that, Dele has obviously been told to stop some of the tricks he does and IF he fails to do that then he is opening up himself to be criticised by any manager.

So a needless brain fart aurier shove leading to a penalty, which could be said to be far more damaging to the result, is less egregious than a flick high up the pitch?

Jose mentioned aurier and penalties on the Amazon doc. And he did it again. Barely a word.

 

[billyiddo]

But you’re advocating that he has played at CM for 3 years which isn’t true. He’s played plenty of games in the front four. I’m not going to go through all every game but I’d be willing to bet he’s played more games in the front four than he has at CM. And when has has played in the front four he hasn’t progressed.

Is that what i said? I don't think it is, certainly not what I'm meant.

The teams setup changed to make allowance for the weaker midfield pairing of Winks and Sissoko - the more they played the more players like Alli and Eriksen had to drop deep to pitch in with the grunt work closing down and winning possession off of opponents and then progressing the ball forward in to the attacking players as opposed to being the player on the recieving end.

Are you telling me you don't see that the way the team was setup changed over this period and you think that we continued to try to play like we did the years previous?

 

[parklane1]

So a needless brain fart aurier shove leading to a pelanty, which could be said to be far more damaging to the result, is less egregious than a flick high up the pitch?

Jose mentioned aurier and pelanties on the Amazon doc. And he did it again. Barely a word.

I am not defending any player ( but i will say that apart from that one brain fart this season he has been a changed player and is staying on his feet far more which was one of the things Jose spoke about him doing).

And its not about one flick high up the pitch is it, Jose ( rightly or wrongly) has spoken to Dele on several occasions about his flicks and tricks and it showed that he has not fully taken it on board.

I rate dele highly but if/when any manager tells any player to do/not do certain things then players really have to listen or move on. As i have said the ball is in Dele court.

 

[DeanoAustin]

All those things were mistakes by players and if he or any manager had to dig out players every time they made a mistake they would never have time to do anything. The difference with Dele is that its the flicks and tricks way he plays which SEEMS to annoy Jose and Dele does not seem to get the message( or ignores it totally).

All players make mistakes and if any of them fail to stop making the same ones then the manager is right to try and stop that, Dele has obviously been told to stop some of the tricks he does and IF he fails to do that then he is opening up himself to be criticised by any manager.

Fair enough Sir. I get the point you’re making and the logic in the distinction you’re making between Dele and the others but I don’t agree that a manager should decide who to criticise in public on that sort of rationale. I think it’s rarely ever justified and that Dele deserves better. I don’t want the manager of our club carrying on this way but I guess this is what we signed up for with Jose. It just stings a bit when you actually see a lad we all had/have great time for getting dug out in public.

 

[Raziel]

So a needless brain fart aurier shove leading to a pelanty, which could be said to be far more damaging to the result, is less egregious than a flick high up the pitch?

Jose mentioned aurier and pelanties on the Amazon doc. And he did it again. Barely a word.

Aurier has (prior to penalty) actually been very good for us this season.
Lloris has made two mistakes in last two games, but again, in balance a very good season
Dele has played pretty much ineffective football against subpar opposition to the point that he couldn't earn a starting spot on the Europa league squad.

The first two have earned their manager's trust and understanding, and probably more to the point, follow orders, not sure why that isn't easy enough to see?

 

[billyiddo]

Aurier has (prior to pelanty) actually been very good for us this season.
Lloris has made two mistakes in last two games, but again, in balance a very good season
Dele has played pretty much ineffective football against subpar opposition to the point that he couldn't earn a starting spot on the Europa league squad.

The first two have earned their manager's trust and understanding, and probably more to the point, follow orders, not sure why that isn't easy enough to see?

Dele played very well in the EL last time he was given a starting place and wasn't given follow up game time off the back of it despite there being two obvious games to do so. Don't talk about earning his way back in when he isn't getting the chance to do so - he's feeding off scraps and getting hauled over the coals publicly dare he make a mistake in one of those rare outings.

 

[StephenH]

Dele played very well in the EL last time he was given a starting place and wasn't given follow up game time off the back of it despite there being two obvious games to do so. Don't talk about earning his way back in when he isn't getting the chance to do so - he's feeding off scraps and getting hauled over the coals publicly dare he make a mistake in one of those rare outings.

Dele is the useful idiot in this tale, Mourinho always picks a whipping boy for the media.
feel sorry for Dele!

 

[afsoc4life]

I am not defending any player ( but i will say that apart from that one brain fart this season he has been a changed player and is staying on his feet far more which was one of the things Jose spoke about him doing).

And its not about one flick high up the pitch is it, Jose ( rightly or wrongly) has spoken to Dele on several occasions about his flicks and tricks and it showed that he has not fully taken it on board.

I rate dele highly but if/when any manager tells any player to do/not do certain things then players really have to listen or move on. As i have said the ball is in Dele court.

Indeed. The below is Joe Cole on his situation with Jose.

But Cole, having experienced it all himself, backs his former manager’s strategy when it comes to getting the best from his players.

“When it happened to me it was not a problem,” Cole told the PA news agency.

“It is a grown up’s sport. If you don’t play well or you don’t do what you are supposed to do, whether you expect to get criticised publicly or not, you need to be tough, you need to understand the nature of the beast.

“He is a young man, the right response is to knuckle down and perform.

Dele needs to keep on improving. Adversity produces strength if faced heads on. The fact that Ndombele has stepped up after the 'clashes' with Jose points to a meritocracy in selection.

 

[thfcsteff]

Dele played very well in the EL last time he was given a starting place and wasn't given follow up game time off the back of it despite there being two obvious games to do so. Don't talk about earning his way back in when he isn't getting the chance to do so - he's feeding off scraps and getting hauled over the coals publicly dare he make a mistake in one of those rare outings.

Sadly though mate, we have to ask why that is? Aurier was out the door but he fought back in. Dele needs to want the fight it seems?

 

[Grays_1890]

Sadly though mate, we have to ask why that is? Aurier was out the door but he fought back in. Dele needs to want the fight it seems?

He does but then you have to ask how he can fight when unlike others he does not get the time to build up a head of steam? Everton he was hooked at half time despite being one of our better players, in the EL game escapes me we played horrendous as a collective and he hooked him half time, Son and Kane came on and we were worse. Bar that he gets 5 or 10 minutes here and there, like I said, Alli far from perfect but Kane and Son atone for misses and sometimes being selfish because they get the minutes which means their chances of getting a goal increase.

I think what is ignored largely in this is the style we play more than just Alli, Jose wants robots and a pretty rigid system devoid of flair, it has to be pragmatic and makes for attrition football, I think bar Man United when they went to 10 men and Southampton we have seen that against the West Broms, Brightons, Plodiv and Antwerps of the world.

The think that the Alli saga does not cover is serving up utter tripe at home to Leics, thats on Jose. Ironically if you was to go at Jose for serving up crap like Leics I am sure he would be offended, didnt he actually say we were the better side?

 

[fernadez]

The Luke Shaw stuff was very publically discussed as borderline work place bullying though I seem to remember too.

Luke Shaw himself said he played the best football of his career under Jose.

 

[Grays_1890]

Luke Shaw himself said he played the best football of his career under Jose.

Did he? I seem to remember the players rounding on Jose for humiliating him in training?

 

[fernadez]

Did he? I seem to remember the players rounding on Jose for humiliating him in training?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sk...ticise-him-for-manchester-united-performances

There are other interviews as well, I'll try find them

This one with Eto'o always springs to mind as well. Who was arguably the best goal scorer in the world at the time.

He left me on the bench for a month and made me warm up in injury time,” the former striker said, discussing Mourinho’s man-management skills at the Aspire Academy Global Summit on Football Performance and Science in Qatar.

“In his head, he was pricking me to make me his own. I talked to him in his office. It was what he wanted from me, to recover my best level. And I did. We won everything. We had a team of eleven warriors, we won differently."

As an aside, if people think this is abuse from a manager then I highly doubt they've played competitive sport at any decent level.