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American politics

scaramanga said:
Well, if you already have all the votes from the left and the country is right-leaning enough for the other guy to get 75M votes, you won't take them by scaring away the moderates with a Sanders type.
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In a nutshell, most Muricans outside of Hollywood and Silicon Valley i.e. the creative types are really really thick. I think political correctness plays a part here IMO. A lot of people on both sides are fed up of it and one thing Trump doesn’t do is bow down to the PC police (particularly on the left) with their insane woke brick whereas the Democrats don’t stand up to the twitter mob like they should do. I hate Trump but he doesn’t give a brick about political correctness.
 
Jurgen the German said:
In a nutshell, most Muricans outside of Hollywood and Silicon Valley i.e. the creative types are really really thick. I think political correctness plays a part here IMO. A lot of people on both sides are fed up of it and one thing Trump doesn’t do is bow down to the PC police (particularly on the left) with their insane woke brick whereas the Democrats don’t stand up to the twitter mob like they should do. I hate Trump but he doesn’t give a brick about political correctness.
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An example would be the US run Podcast calling Harry Kane racist for not coming out and proactively denouncing racism, saying his silence made him racist. Now to some that is going to motivate people who are bored of PC ideas going mad. Trump would have exhausted the right vote 4 years ago, people have have other motivations to come out and vote for him this time, if people just label them without exploring the reason why they were motivated to vote for him then the same mistakes are going to be made. Corbyn suffered the same hugely because his fanatical took to social media to shut down questions and people get bored of being shut down.
 
Jurgen the German said:
In a nutshell, most Muricans outside of Hollywood and Silicon Valley i.e. the creative types are really really thick. I think political correctness plays a part here IMO. A lot of people on both sides are fed up of it and one thing Trump doesn’t do is bow down to the PC police (particularly on the left) with their insane woke brick whereas the Democrats don’t stand up to the twitter mob like they should do. I hate Trump but he doesn’t give a brick about political correctness.
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It's not (or at least shouldn't be) about political correctness, it’s a matter of common decency and respect for other human beings. IMO.
 
Robbo said:
It's not (or at least shouldn't be) about politicl correctness, it’s a matter of common decency and respect for other human beings. IMO.
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Rarely works like that, people also vote for what benefits them regardless. Trump picked up a massive ethnic vote in many states because they look beyond that and feel he benefits them more than he doesnt otherwise why would black people vote for a racist or the Cuban community in Florida when he wants to stop proactive immigration? Now that is a worry if people being persecuted because of their ethnicity under his regime still vote for him because they feel their circumstances benefit greater despite the racism?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Rarely works like that, people also vote for what benefits them regardless. Trump picked up a massive ethnic vote in many states because they look beyond that and feel he benefits them more than he doesnt otherwise why would black people vote for a racist or the Cuban community in Florida when he wants to stop proactive immigration? Now that is a worry if people being persecuted because of their ethnicity under his regime still vote for him because they feel their circumstances benefit greater despite the racism?
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Yeah I get there's a certain pragmatism involved in voting, but I'm a little shocked as there seems there's no limit to what sort of behaviour people will accept.

The lengths that Trump will go to; the distance in his eyes - just when you think he's said too much, he sets it up again. I'm trying to keep up with him, but I don't know if I can do it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
An example would be the US run Podcast calling Harry Kane racist for not coming out and proactively denouncing racism, saying his silence made him racist. Now to some that is going to motivate people who are bored of PC ideas going mad. Trump would have exhausted the right vote 4 years ago, people have have other motivations to come out and vote for him this time, if people just label them without exploring the reason why they were motivated to vote for him then the same mistakes are going to be made. Corbyn suffered the same hugely because his fanatical took to social media to shut down questions and people get bored of being shut down.
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Agree on all counts. I’m a liberal but political correctness doesn’t work. Stephen Fry was debating PC with Jordan Peterson and two liberals who I can’t remember their names and called PC a “recruiting sergeant for the right wing” and he’s as liberal as they come. When people were posting the black square on Instagram, people were criticising others for not posting the square or for posting the square and nothing else. All that does is alienate people who might be on your side.
 
Robbo said:
It's not (or at least shouldn't be) about political correctness, it’s a matter of common decency and respect for other human beings. IMO.
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I agree. I was just making the point that political correctness doesn’t work and it usually just alienates people. I mean Weight Watchers can’t even use the name weight watchers anymore, they had to change their name to WW. I’m old enough to remember when losing weight used to be considered a good thing. I’d like the democrats and also the Labour Party over here to speak out against cancel culture more often and make it clear that it’s not only the right wing who get tired of the PC police.
 
braineclipse said:
That's not how the left works. That's not how mobilising people to vote works.

The left aren't all the same that will vote the same regardless.

The "should have gone for Sanders" crowd in 2016 made similar arguments. There's just no way to know how it would have ended.

What you're saying is plausible. It's also plausible that a Sanders/Warren ticket would have mobilised far more voters than they would have lost in the centre. It's plausible that a candidate further to the right would have been able to hold on to enough of the left to make it count. The opposite is plausible.

We still don't know who won of Biden and Trump. We may not know for days. How can you know what would have happened with some other candidate?
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I think the closeness of this election, coupled with the level of turnout shows where the US's Overton window lies. The centre of which must be somewhere between the two.

The most effective way to increase a party's vote share is to take them from the middle. Just as Clinton (Bill), Blair, Cameron and Obama did.

I suppose it's theoretically possible to increase vote share if both parties trend outwards to the extremes, but I'm not sure I like the probable outcome of that.
 
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