Coronavirus

[AuroRaman]

Apologies if that was not you.

Wouldn’t worry too much I was accused of racist posts the other day with no foundation and yet to receive an apology.

No problem. Yeah I saw that. In my utopic world vision I assume these things get sorted via PM but clearly not in this case!

 

[SpurMeUp]

Like I said some not all. Fact is the government is offering to pay 30k salaries to the entire country effectively bailing out any company that needs to be. That’s hugely significant, the deal announced at the start of this is bigger than anyone ever expected and it’s made a rod for the governments back because now everyone wants an equivalent and the government have acted when people have asked.

Im sorry I’m not having it that they have let business down, my company today only exists and the 110 staff are only being paid because of the government.

In your last post you said some were taking the wage payments and were going to close up shop anyway. I didn’t bother replying because you’d answered your point as to whether furloughing was enough.

Switzerland have also guaranteed loans to businesses. The borrowing rate for government is so low, the cost to the nation isn’t that high. it allows companies cash flow and stops them going out of business - which is a net gain for the Uk economy. The cost of unemployment benefits and lost income tax is far far greater than taking on the debt risk.

Furloughing only cover 2.5k a month so it will hit the economy hard with people who used to have a lot more to spend (and various commitments) now on limited budgets.

So the government did move quickly onto help the economy, but a bit like testing, they didn’t follow it up. At the moment banks are being asked to shoulder the risk of borrowing, if the government were to simply be a guarantor, and set low interest rates, problem solved. It’s working well in Switzerland.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

Apologies if that was not you.

Wouldn’t worry too much I was accused of racist posts the other day with no foundation and yet to receive an apology.

Presume you were talking about me? Can you quote the supposed accusation?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[scaramanga]

In your last post you said some were taking the wage payments and were going to close up shop anyway. I didn’t bother replying because you’d answered your point as to whether furloughing was enough.

Switzerland have also guaranteed loans to businesses. The borrowing rate for government is so low, the cost to the nation isn’t that high. it allows companies cash flow and stops them going out of business - which is a net gain for the Uk economy. The cost of unemployment benefits and lost income tax is far far greater than taking on the risk.

Furloughing only cover 2.5k so it will got the economy hard with people who used to have a lot more to spend now on limited money.

So the government did move quickly onto help the economy, but a bit like testing, they didn’t follow up. At the moment banks are being asked to shoulder the risk of borrowing, if the government were to simply be a guarantor, and set low interest rates, problem solved. It’s working well in Switzerland.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

The government are acting as guarantor. That's the first measure they announced.

 

[Grays_1890]

Presume you were talking about me? Can you quote the supposed accusation?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

The fact you know it was you is enough otherwise you wouldn’t have replied to this. You quoting mine and someone else’s handles on a thread suggesting we had made racist posts and could apologise for them? I replied to that post at the time and asked for an explanation and it went unheard

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think you are right, And maybe with some reason. When reading through this thread everyone wants everything and it flip flops from saving lives to saving the economy to bailing everyone out to saving every business to make sure everyone is financially sound. For me that’s unrealistic there will be some damage caused by this pandemic and people might need to adjust their gauge.

But back to original point I think if this forum was a barometer of what important I can understand some weighing up of financial protection against lockdown etc.

I guess the point is, on the gauge on how well we’re doing relative to other nations, we are not doing all that well. However forgiving you are, at the end of the day the government will be judged on numbers who have sadly passed away and the hit to the economy. On both metrics we’re in the bottom half of the table for developed nations. Is that fair to say?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Grays_1890]

In your last post you said some were taking the wage payments and were going to close up shop anyway. I didn’t bother replying because you’d answered your point as to whether furloughing was enough.

Switzerland have also guaranteed loans to businesses. The borrowing rate for government is so low, the cost to the nation isn’t that high. it allows companies cash flow and stops them going out of business - which is a net gain for the Uk economy. The cost of unemployment benefits and lost income tax is far far greater than taking on the debt risk.

Furloughing only cover 2.5k a month so it will hit the economy hard with people who used to have a lot more to spend (and various commitments) now on limited budgets.

So the government did move quickly onto help the economy, but a bit like testing, they didn’t follow it up. At the moment banks are being asked to shoulder the risk of borrowing, if the government were to simply be a guarantor, and set low interest rates, problem solved. It’s working well in Switzerland.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Well furlough isn’t the only thing, the total package is huge for business.

The government can’t bail out shops on the high street totally, its impossible and in many cases those going under were going under in good times. It makes no sense hocking the country to the hilt just to save Oasis and Dorothy Perkins.

Like Scara rightly said they have underwritten all this.

Switerland is such a poor comparison so so poor

 

[Grays_1890]

I guess the point is, on the gauge on how well we’re doing relative to other nations, we are not doing all that well. However forgiving you are, at the end of the day the government will be judged on numbers who have sadly passed away and the hit to the economy. On both metrics we’re in the bottom half of the table for developed nations. Is that fair to say?

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

How the hell can a country maintain any kind of economic stability whilst bailing out a nation to the tune of 400bn +.

Lift the lockdown create more deaths but spike the economy?

Your expectations trap the government into a catch 22, it’s exactly the point of my post.

If you live in the real world you realise that this global pandemic is going to cause huge disruption and some of these expectations are frankly ridiculous. Switzerland isn’t a fair like for like comparison nor are many others because every single possible variable changes nation to nation, the starting point to any economic comparison isn’t the same, not all countries were in the same place naturally before this so you can’t compare it’s impossible.

Death toll you can yes for sure but even then there are variables that will affect stats

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I know for fact that people with severe covid -19 symptoms (ie struggling to breath) are being sent away from hospitals and told to isolate at home... in what number I don't know but I'm sure that some won't make it... what the numbers that won't make it are... again I don't know.

Im not doubting you but if people were being turned away at AE or ambulances not available or care homes requests for hospitalisation being turned down I'm sure we would have heard about it?.

If people are being turned away after medical assessment than that is doctors doing their jobs, if it's because they haven't got bed, that would be an issue BUT that isn't the feedback we're getting.

Maybe there are stories (some anecdotal)? BUT judging by the press this would be field day stuff and I haven't read anything?

That said...I don't read the papers so probably why I haven't read anything

 

[Grays_1890]

Im not doubting you but if people were being turned away at AE or ambulances not available or care homes requests for hospitalisation being turned down I'm sure we would have heard about it?.

If people are being turned away after medical assessment than that is doctors doing their jobs, if it's because they haven't got bed, that would be an issue BUT that isn't the feedback we're getting.

Maybe there are stories (some anecdotal)? BUT judging by the press this would be field day stuff and I haven't read anything?

That said...I don't read the papers so probably why I haven't read anything

There were stories early on about decisions being made on who gets a bed and the older being sent home to be comfortable and basically expect the worse.

That was when beds were short supply

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

There were stories early on about decisions being made on who gets a bed and the older being sent home to be comfortable and basically expect the worse.

That was when beds were short supply

I checked earlier and there are a wealth of stories that the 'NHS will run out of beds in 7 days / 14 days'. This is around the 24th march....can't find no follow up stories (that they did) as I assume this was averted.

 

[SpurMeUp]

How the hell can a country maintain any kind of economic stability whilst bailing out a nation to the tune of 400bn +.

Lift the lockdown create more deaths but spike the economy?

Your expectations trap the government into a catch 22, it’s exactly the point of my post.

If you live in the real world you realise that this global pandemic is going to cause huge disruption and some of these expectations are frankly ridiculous. Switzerland isn’t a fair like for like comparison nor are many others because every single possible variable changes nation to nation, the starting point to any economic comparison isn’t the same, not all countries were in the same place naturally before this so you can’t compare it’s impossible.

Death toll you can yes for sure but even then there are variables that will affect stats

Germany, Korea etc are in the same world and same boat, with vastly more successful strategies. Greater preparation has resulted in fewer lives lost and less disruption to the economy.

 

[SpurMeUp]

View attachment 8538

The fact you know it was you is enough otherwise you wouldn’t have replied to this. You quoting mine and someone else’s handles on a thread suggesting we had made racist posts and could apologise for them? I replied to that post at the time and asked for an explanation and it went unheard

Maybe you should look up the definition of "accusation". I said IF you were racist I was sure you would retract it, that is all. I had faith in your integrity.

I'm going to start calling you Rudiger-Grays

 

[scaramanga]

I checked earlier and there are a wealth of stories that the 'NHS will run out of beds in 7 days / 14 days'. This is around the 24th march....can't find no follow up stories (that they did) as I assume this was averted.

I think those claiming that were expecting an exponential curve.

 

[Grays_1890]

Maybe you should look up the definition of "accusation". I said IF you were racist I was sure you would retract it, that is all. I had faith in your integrity.

I'm going to start calling you Rudiger-Grays

Actually you didn’t say that at all, go back and read it, you can’t just pull your trick of saying one thing and manipulating that later on to make it look like you didn’t. In the whole forum you point towards me and one other for potential racist post, you came out and pointed towards us, that’s an accusation, you must have said it for a reason.

I find your attempt at an explanation totally out of line if I am honest. It’s clear what you were trying to say. Without any justification because I haven’t posted anything racist so why suggest that Danish or I may have?

Fact is I’m a man that is entitled to defend himself so if you think something say it in open like an equal man and allow me the chance to defend myself which I would do and would be entitled to. Silly covert comments are not cool.

 

[scaramanga]

Germany, Korea etc are in the same world and same boat, with vastly more successful strategies. Greater preparation has resulted in fewer lives lost and less disruption to the economy.

Neither have the NHS dragging their healthcare down.

 

[Grays_1890]

Germany, Korea etc are in the same world and same boat, with vastly more successful strategies. Greater preparation has resulted in fewer lives lost and less disruption to the economy.

Yeh the same Germany and Korea heading into a recession, great examples

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/think.ing.com/amp/article/germany-recession-coming/

 

[SpurMeUp]

Well furlough isn’t the only thing, the total package is huge for business.

The government can’t bail out shops on the high street totally, its impossible and in many cases those going under were going under in good times. It makes no sense hocking the country to the hilt just to save Oasis and Dorothy Perkins.

Like Scara rightly said they have underwritten all this.

Switerland is such a poor comparison so so poor

Interesting. What makes Switzerland a poor comparison?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yeh the same Germany and Korea heading into a recession, great examples

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/think.ing.com/amp/article/germany-recession-coming/

Okay if you only have a polarised black and white viewpoint, you won't see nuances. Even members of our government admit they didn't get things right and were behind Germany etc. Every nation will experience some form of recession How dramatic it is depends on how they manage things. In the UK businesses can't get loans because banks are being asked to carry the risk. In Switzerland they have upto something like 220k available for small businesses with a small interest rate, and its guaranteed by the government. The small interest rate allows the banks to pay their costs, and any company that needs to pay suppliers etc is covered.

 

[Grays_1890]

Interesting. What makes Switzerland a poor comparison?

They started off from a naturally better start, they have a huge concentration of wealth compared to having a low percentage of the worlds adult population.

It’s the wealthiest country in the world and home to a mere 8m people.

Hardly like for like.