ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
The thing is the opposite situation (as in all this) doesn't do us any favours either.
ie. The 'lube yourself up' approach.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
ie. The 'lube yourself up' approach.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
@Danishfurniturelover
One thing I'll say however..
As much as we are diametrically opposed on brexit (and I imagine quite a few other political points!) I appreciate the fact that you've always taken these conversations in good faith and never done a hit and run when it comes to discussing them.
One thing I'll say however..
As much as we are diametrically opposed on brexit (and I imagine quite a few other political points!) I appreciate the fact that you've always taken these conversations in good faith and never done a hit and run when it comes to discussing them.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
By definition 48% of the people surrounding you are remainders so highly likely to share your views, and to think that beyond your London bubble you, and your family, would be uncomfortable and not welcome is a bit of a blanket statement.
If you're looking to move out to Chatham, Hull, Pompey etc...then yes, you have a point, but making those places 'home' with or without a referendum vote as a backdrop...would be a big mistake.
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
In all honesty, I really believe that the more militant remainers are ignorant of just how much their actions have solidified many leave voters in their positions, and who knows, perhaps even pushed a few converts over. They've done themselves no favours whatsoever IMO.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Tell me why (with detail, not rhetoric) that couldn't have happened as an EU member state?
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Technically its just under a third of people around you - in the UK - who voted to remain. Just over a third who voted to leave. And the smart ones - a third - who don't give a monkies about this nonsense. And why should they? We have a government who should understand economics, geopolitics etc.
Easy for me to say, but with or without Brexit I don't think anyone should worry about living in these places that voted leave. In fact I would say that remainers need to understand people in these communities better. They have a reality which if you were part of it, would probably lead to a similar outlook. It is hard for someone to put themselves into that reality where there aren't too many prospects and there is genuine need for change.
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SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
I find this kind of narrative funny. Like Greys complaining I should have been more active pre-vote. Or people trying to blame remainers for Brexit not going well.
It is all just trying to blame a brick show on other people. You are free to believe what you will. I am happy to discuss it and see if the logic for leaving or remaining stands up. Your position shouldn't have anything to do with me. Should it? It is just petty in-group stuff. Look at the logic, look at the evidence. Understand if brexit does anything for you or your nation. That is all.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Because the EU binds us into a particular form of 1980s Reaganomics cooked up by Thatcher and Kohl. Our whole economic polity is restricted to that narrow spectrum. We can't become left wing and nationalise, nor can we become more Asian and de-regulate. The choices that matter aren't on the table in elections at present.
Until EU state aid and competition laws no longer apply, all we are voting for with governments are managers. There's no ideology, vision or leadership possible within the constraints.
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Do you actually believe that the UK's negotiating position, and the EU's corresponding stance, have been entirely unaffected by the manoeurverings of militant remainers? You'll probably try and claim that you do believe just that, actually, going on much of your posting in here. But I don't. Nor I'd suggest would most objective people. And by definition that makes this 'brick show', in part, very much the fault of 'other people'. When leavers see that, it doesn't exactly make them more receptive to your arguments.
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Baleforce
Ron Henry
This one sentence covers the entire lifecycle of brexit.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Can we agree that pre-vote campaigners for and against brexit said one of two things:
1. It will be easy to negotiate with the EU. "the easiest deal in history"
2. people who had experience and can see - through simple logic - said it would not be so simple at all.
The people in group 1, could hardly say gonad*s I was wrong! Instead they have to blame something else. And so they blame group 2.
Reading the Sun this morning, those who got it wrong are still saying the same thing. Ian Duncan Smith and David Davis talking about how EU are about to cave into us. Davis wrote that he "always said the final 3 weeks" was the key, not the 3 years before it. Nevermind we've had the final deadline before and we didn't get anywhere.
At some point you have to stop blaming others. If Brexit made sense it would have come together and worked. It is not the fault of anyone that it didn't. Apart form those who lied and led people to believe it offered something and would be easy. They should be the scape goats. The people who made false promises they could not keep.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
And post Brexit (or whatever comes to pass).....on it will continue.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Illegal aliens
How I think some people genuinely see the European parliament/commission.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Barnier has again reiterated that the WA is not for changing.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
None of which STOP an introspection into ourpolitical and economic policies.
They restrict certain paths, but don't stop introspection.
There are also plentiful differing styles of domestic political system across the EU, so unless you are suggesting a move some to something totalitarian, EU membership would not stop reform of the UK political system.
A mature introspection of the UK political and economic system is exactly what was needed PRIOR to the referendum. (That was the core basis of my argument to remain - "we (politicians and electorate) are neither rational enough or politically educated enough (see little teaching of PPE at school) to make this choice, nor is a clear enough path and set of objectives been identified")
Yours is a good argument.
But as an argument to justify leaving the EU, it is a non starter.
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ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
Never gonna happen.
The rest of your sentence is a bit past tense? We've not even got there yet
A problem with such a equally split vote is when delivering the outcome you have half the people not exactly 'buying in' to the the direction of travel (either way). A bit like Poch trying to make sure everyones on board so we can get the best outcomes, just on a grander scale and far less controllable. And any kind of crisis/downturn/hiccup just easily triggers the blame game again.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
I suspect if the UK govt out forward a sensible solution to the backstop, then a small tweaking would be possible.
But right we are just throwing our toys out of the pram and offering nothing but rhetoric.
Sadly, I have heard little more than that from leavers since 2016.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
The rest of your sentence is a bit past tense? We've not even got there yet
Is it? That would presume there is an end point. Brexit has failed from its inception. Because its logic doens't stack up, and there was and is no realistic vision for it. If there is what the hell is it??
If we get some kind of 'brexit' on the 31st of October, it is a start only. We will need to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. And the UK will have to try and make trade deals with all the other nations we trade with now, via EU trade agreements. Basically years of gonad*s to leave ourselves in a weaker position than we started
If it didn't effect all of us, it would be pretty funny! Total brick show.
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ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
The grammar you used was a bit past tense. That is all.Is it? That would presume there is an end point. Brexit has failed from its inception. Because its logic doens't stack up, and there was and is no realistic vision for it. If there is what the hell is it??
If we get some kind of 'brexit' on the 31st of October, it is a start only. We will need to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. And the UK will have to try and make trade deals with all the other nations we trade with now, via EU trade agreements. Basically years of gonad*s to leave ourselves in a weaker position than we started
If it didn't effect all of us, it would be pretty funny! Total brick show.
Not Sterling valuation, no.
He was talking about people moving assets off shore due to talk of taxing wealth along with earnings.