Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[monkeybarry]

Agreed - it's fudging scary how little regard so many MPs have for the will of the people.

Equally how scary how much disregard Johnson has for the voice of parliament.

Hopefully this serves as a reset from all "sides" to approach Brexit (and future issues) to be less dogmatic and more considered.

It's no surprise we are here. The referendum didn't offer clarity, thus making a good deal impossible because we approached it arrogantly and baked ourselves in party political corners - from across the house, both Commons and Lords.
The referendum being so close didn't help.
The change in global politics has made that even worse.
There is no CLEAR mandate for no deal. A democratic PM (like ant good project sponsor when a project is not going as expected), would go back to the team (in this case the electorate) and ask for certain i. Are you happy to proceed with no deal. ii. Shall we start again with negotiations and take a collegiate approach. iii. Do we now feel this is no a direction we wish to take.

The ramifications of all the above are alot more clear now than they were pre 2016, for MPs and public alike.
They can be clearly laid out, including the ramifications of not achieving a satisfactory deal.

 

[monkeybarry]

The difference is a matter of days. And he is trying to prevent parliament neutering us in negotiations.

After 3 years of stalling and time wasting I don't really care if he does screw them out of a few days.

The flip side of that is, if it's ONLY three days, then why is prorogation necessary?
It's not about Brexit, it's about subversion and ego.
Brexit is the convenient smokescreen.

 

[nayenezgani]

The flip side of that is, if it's ONLY three days, then why is prorogation necessary?
It's not about Brexit, it's about subversion and ego.
Brexit is the convenient smokescreen.

Not to mention how much Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, @scaramanga and other such fudgers are going to be absolutely sure to profit from the chaos that ensues following a no-deal Brexit.

Ohhh but it's the will of the people, yeah the fudging people you've swindled and will rob blind. fudging scum.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The flip side of that is, if it's ONLY three days, then why is prorogation necessary?
It's not about Brexit, it's about subversion and ego.
Brexit is the convenient smokescreen.

I agree it's about neutering them, as they are trying to neuter the UK.

It might be subversive, but no more so than what the opposition are trying.

And I'd much rather Boris have the no deal option than have him cut off at the knees by Corbyn and the gang.

 

[parklane1]

A PM is battling to stop parliament from going against the democratic mandate of the people and you consider that a disgrace?

This is parliament Vs the people and the PM is on our side.

They will not listen.

 

[wiziwig]

I can only reference Ricky too tricky...have you thought about setting this to music? [emoji23]

Loved the bit about reality.

As has been covered too Many times before European nations are fiercely independent with some of the strongest cultures in the world. There is no way they would squish together into a united stars of Europe. If you fear that, you have probably been lied to.

Truth is the EU is more agile than our national government and is continually evolving. It’s very new in the grand scheme of things. You need to believe that things are possible.

Don’t have time myself right now, but check this out see what you think https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-angela-merkel-fight-for-survival-freilassing


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

England's Green and Pleasant Land, is played in the background whilst I write all my posts in this thread

'You've been lied to' is the standard riposte to by Remain people - it's boring and shows you've got nothing..

Your Merkel link is merely showing she fudged up and now she's out to rectify her mistake of a few years ago.... The clue is in the title of the article, 'Merkel fighting for survival'.

When Merkel unilaterally asked Middle East refugees to come to "her Germany" in 2015, many people were branded racist for merely saying, that it were not her call to make and that she were behaving like a dictator to do so. National governments are being threatened with financial and political punishment in the EU Parliament for not following her "European values." Western Globalist media supported her with propaganda imagery of the migrant suffering ... The true realities of people migrating across borders responding to her call, were hidden from the public and we had to do our own research for that..

EU federalists play the long game , they push and if necessary they slam on the brakes. Merkel, now has the AFD to deal with and had the Germans, not voted for the AFD in such numbers, then I'd say that the brakes would not have been applied ...

I'd also like to add, that Merkel along with Corbyn and their hate for the Nation probably did more than most, to help the Brexit vote..

 

[Rorschach]

The difference is a matter of days. And he is trying to prevent parliament neutering us in negotiations.

After 3 years of stalling and time wasting I don't really care if he does screw them out of a few days.

True, it is not a long time but it is a fair portion of the remaining time. Actually, if there were months left it would be frittered away too with this strategy Bojo has adopted. It is a massive gamble that the EU might make some further concessions because they see now 'he's just crazy enough to do it'. In my opinion this was a strategic mistake. Playing chicken with the EU is not going to work. Chance of no-deal just increased significantly IMO.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Which I'm ok with. No deal is better than BINO which the opposition are trying to box us into

 

[Rorschach]

Which I'm ok with. No deal is better than BINO which the opposition are trying to box us into

At least your honest about it, but even you would have to admit not all leavers share the opinion that no deal is the best for the country. Interesting times ahead.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

At least your honest about it, but even you would have to admit not all leavers share the opinion that no deal is the best for the country. Interesting times ahead.

Not all anything/anyone agree on anything, do they?

I'm not saying no deal is the best option, but it certainly tops BINO imo which is basically the worst possible outcome

 

[Rorschach]

Not all anything/anyone agree on anything, do they?

I'm not saying no deal is the best option, but it certainly tops BINO imo which is basically the worst possible outcome

I would switch those around - some deal is better than crashing out. That way leads to civil unrest, years of crushing austerity, and the end of the union IMO. Personally, I've no real preference for one deal over another but my hope would be to not see NI getting shafted again. They've gone through enough.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Be honest, you don't know what it leads to. Nobody does.

But we do know what BINO means...

 

[Rorschach]

Be honest, you don't know what it leads to. Nobody does.

But we do know what BINO means...

Obviously I'm not sure but the polls would suggest a union breakup, the government own reports suggest a big economic downturn, and when the wine runs out there will 100% be civil unrest. I'm not really making too many leaps in these predictions. Or maybe it will all be fine

 

[Craig_J]

Be honest, you don't know what it leads to. Nobody does.

But we do know what BINO means...

bino. Noun. (plural binos) (physics) The superpartner of the gauge boson corresponding to weak hypercharge



I am lost.

 

[Rorschach]

bino. Noun. (plural binos) (physics) The superpartner of the gauge boson corresponding to weak hypercharge



I am lost.

It similar to wino but with beer.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Have you been brainwashed? What European Army? Where is it! [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Haha, you've forgotten many of our previous exchanges haven't - or perhaps purposely chosen to ignore them.

So i'll save time and ask you look up European Defence Union and PESCO - Permanent Structured Cooperation and tell me about whether a European Army is closer to coming into being compared to 5 years ago or not.

In b4 "oh but what's wrong with having a single army, after all it saves on cost, is better than NATO...." yada, yada, yada..

 

[SpurMeUp]

Haha, you've forgotten many of our previous exchanges haven't - or perhaps purposely chosen to ignore them.

So i'll save time and ask you look up European Defence Union and PESCO - Permanent Structured Cooperation and tell me about whether a European Army is closer to coming into being compared to 5 years ago or not.

In b4 "oh but what's wrong with having a single army, after all it saves on cost, is better than NATO...." yada, yada, yada..

So lets get this straight, you're saying there isn't a European Army? Just a structure for defence cooperation is that correct?

 

[glorygloryeze]

I agree it's about neutering them, as they are trying to neuter the UK.

It might be subversive, but no more so than what the opposition are trying.

And I'd much rather Boris have the no deal option than have him cut off at the knees by Corbyn and the gang.

This is so crucial. As far as i'm concerned those who want to "take no deal off the table" are not interested in ANY deal and only want the UK to remain by any means necessary. It should be clear even to the remainers who accept the referendum result but want the best negotiating position for the country going forwards that removing the option for no deal weakens those negotiations.

 

[glorygloryeze]

So lets get this straight, you're saying there isn't a European Army? Just a structure for defence cooperation is that correct?

I'm saying many a Europhile said there was "no chance that the EU is planning to create a centralized EU army" and "its plain conspiracy theory to think so" have been shown to have had their heads in the sands - or did know and were plain lying

 

[SpurMeUp]

England's Green and Pleasant Land, is played in the background whilst I write all my posts in this thread

'You've been lied to' is the standard riposte to by Remain people - it's boring and shows you've got nothing..

Your Merkel link is merely showing she fudged up and now she's out to rectify her mistake of a few years ago.... The clue is in the title of the article, 'Merkel fighting for survival'.

When Merkel unilaterally asked Middle East refugees to come to "her Germany" in 2015, many people were branded racist for merely saying, that it were not her call to make and that she were behaving like a dictator to do so. National governments are being threatened with financial and political punishment in the EU Parliament for not following her "European values." Western Globalist media supported her with propaganda imagery of the migrant suffering ... The true realities of people migrating across borders responding to her call, were hidden from the public and we had to do our own research for that..

EU federalists play the long game , they push and if necessary they slam on the brakes. Merkel, now has the AFD to deal with and had the Germans, not voted for the AFD in such numbers, then I'd say that the brakes would not have been applied ...

I'd also like to add, that Merkel along with Corbyn and their hate for the Nation probably did more than most, to help the Brexit vote..

Sounds like you have some unity with political forces in Germany. And share some of their concerns. The point was, the UK can work with other nations who also have concerns regarding migration.

As for being lied to, where did you get the notion that we'll likley see a united states of europe from? Those who have suggested this are the ones doing the lying, and I'd quetion anything else they put forward as scaremongering.