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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
His party were officially for remain, and as leader he had a responsibility to voice their point of view.

Something that was conspicuous by its absence, and honestly fudging shameful on his part.

It was about that point where it became obvious he doesnt give a fudge about the Labour party, only his own agenda. Which is basically Boris in a red tie, anything, any cost, whatever it takes for that PM job...
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But as leader of his party he has a big part to play in setting their policy but I don't believe he ever put forward his case. I agree he's shown that he's no different from anyone else in that it's all about getting into power regardless of circumstances.

On campaigning I read the other day he actually appeared at more events than anyone else bar Cameron and Osborne and people like Swinson for instance barely appeared at any and only tweeted for remain once. Whatever the truth he was a lame campaigner for remain - I think generally he's not a great campaigner anyway or certainly not one leading from the front. Much better at protesting.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Of course its fluff. Temporary relief, nothing long standing or meaningful.

And of course DC asked for it, it was easily attainable and allowed for him to come back with something. Its PR, from a politician looking to keep his job in desperate need of a win.

The point is, the actual issue, wasnt even entertained. Thats the key part of the whole debacle.

I am no fan of Cameron, he is scum. And yes, he most certainly should have done more/better. That doesnt change the EU aspect of it though.
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The issue can't be entertained if only one member state asks for it. We needed to build consensus amongst others. But the point that the EU never gave us anything or are to blame for brexit is not entirely accurate. We went with a package and they granted us some of it. That's negotiation.
 
P.D. said:
Why should Corbyn make a case for remaining, he's one of the biggest eurosceptics in parliament. If anything he should be outling the reason he's had those views for such a long time and demonstrate what a brexit from the left/socialist point of view would bring.

Infact the most silly thing Corbyn has done is become a hostage to his own party rather than coming out and being honest with his views, one of the things many people admired about him was concistency of viewpoint (even if they didn't like his policies) but now even that's wavered.
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Corbyn should have made the case for "Remain" because, when questioned, he claimed he voted Remain. I would have had no problem if he had said "Leave" if as you say he had made a solid case for it. Unfortunately all he did was sit on his hands.
 
Robspur12 said:
The issue can't be entertained if only one member state asks for it. We needed to build consensus amongst others. But the point that the EU never gave us anything or are to blame for brexit is not entirely accurate. We went with a package and they granted us some of it. That's negotiation.
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And that's precisely the problem with the whole setup - we need to be able to make whatever changes we wish.
 
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Robspur12 said:
The issue can't be entertained if only one member state asks for it. We needed to build consensus amongst others. But the point that the EU never gave us anything or are to blame for brexit is not entirely accurate. We went with a package and they granted us some of it. That's negotiation.
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Of course it can. A member state should be able to raise issues and be heard, particularly one of our standing.
 
Parklaner81 said:
No idea. You're asking the wrong person I'm afraid. I just find it highly ironic when people who have tried to move heaven and earth to overturn the outcome of the referendum cry foul at something like this, that's all.
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I have an idea. He is trying to bring things to a head by taking away the time available to parliament. To what end I'm still not 100% sure, but I am convinced that his motives are not altruistic. I believe he is gambling with the future of a country for his own political ends and whether you are leave or remain you are nothing but a chip in his game. If you can somehow ignore what has gone on before or the fallout of this, at this moment, this is not about you. Whether you are aligned with his goals or not this is a disgrace.
 
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Rorschach said:
I have an idea. He is trying to bring things to a head by taking away the time available to parliament. To what end I'm still not 400% sure.
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The worrying thing is Boris isn't 1OO% sure either! He has the 'ability' to change his tune from one week to the next. Wasn;t long ago he said he was "not a fan" of proroguing parliment. ##

Matt Hanrooster said suspending parliament “goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it”. There's more from him:

“England is the mother of all parliaments – respected as such around the free world”.

“To suspend Parliament explicitly to pursue a course of action against its wishes is not a serious policy of a prime minister in the 21st Century,”

Did he resign when Boris disrespected the war dead? What do you think!


Amber Rudd: "The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,”
“It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider proroguing parliament. For a start it would involve approaching the Queen and nobody should consider doing that,” she said.


Sajid Javid “You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy ... we are not selecting a dictator of our country”


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Gove, Morgan, Leadsome also condemned suspending parliment prior. It means we the people can not trust anything those in government say. Furthermore, is a sad day when our government won't go on programmes like Newsnight to articulate and defend their position. May's government started this ducking media calls and Boris has continued it. Sadly it is becuase our government don't have a clear position. And they can't let parliment question them either because they themselves don't know! Sad, and yet true.

Brexit has not given us back control. It has delivered an unelected court jestor who's main skill is keeping everyone guessing. But the point I wanted to make is Boris' game plan was quite simple: to broker a deal without a backstop. But I don't think this government have the skill to achieve it. If they were more intelligent they'd know their whole premise is flawed and unworkable.
 
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P.D. said:
Why should Corbyn make a case for remaining, he's one of the biggest eurosceptics in parliament. If anything he should be outling the reason he's had those views for such a long time and demonstrate what a brexit from the left/socialist point of view would bring.

Infact the most silly thing Corbyn has done is become a hostage to his own party rather than coming out and being honest with his views, one of the things many people admired about him was concistency of viewpoint (even if they didn't like his policies) but now even that's wavered.
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Completely agree, there are many reasons why Brexit could be a huge win for the left and we wouldn't be forced as a country to accept Neo-liberalism at every opportunity but he hasn't really said it.

I guess you can say that he does listen to his own party and make policies based upon their recommendations. More than anything, if the lib-dems hadn't done so well in the council elections by campaigning for remain I imagine he would still take the same stance. Politicians are always happy to drop their own view point of the numbers indicate it will give them more of a chance of getting elected.
 
Rorschach said:
I have an idea. He is trying to bring things to a head by taking away the time available to parliament. To what end I'm still not 400% sure, but I am convinced that his motives are not altruistic. I believe he is gambling with the future of a country for his own political ends and whether you are leave or remain you are nothing but a chip in his game. If you can somehow ignore what has gone on before or the fallout of this, at this moment, this is not about you. Whether you are aligned with his goals or not this is a disgrace.
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A PM is battling to stop parliament from going against the democratic mandate of the people and you consider that a disgrace?

This is parliament Vs the people and the PM is on our side.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The worrying thing is Boris isn't 1OO% sure either! He has the 'ability' to change his tune from one week to the next. Wasn;t long ago he said he was "not a fan" of proroguing parliment. ##

Matt Hanrooster said suspending parliament “goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for – and I will not have it”. There's more from him:

“England is the mother of all parliaments – respected as such around the free world”.

“To suspend Parliament explicitly to pursue a course of action against its wishes is not a serious policy of a prime minister in the 21st Century,”

Did he resign when Boris disrespected the war dead? What do you think!


Amber Rudd: "The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I’ve ever heard,”
“It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider proroguing parliament. For a start it would involve approaching the Queen and nobody should consider doing that,” she said.


Sajid Javid “You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy ... we are not selecting a dictator of our country”


----
Gove, Morgan, Leadsome also condemned suspending parliment prior. It means we the people can not trust anything those in government say. Furthermore, is a sad day when our government won't go on programmes like Newsnight to articulate and defend their position. May's government started this ducking media calls and Boris has continued it. Sadly it is becuase our government don't have a clear position. And they can't let parliment question them either because they themselves don't know! Sad, and yet true.

Brexit has not given us back control. It has delivered an unelected court jestor who's main skill is keeping everyone guessing. But the point I wanted to make is Boris' game plan was quite simple: to broker a deal without a backstop. But I don't think this government have the skill to achieve it. If they were more intelligent they'd know their whole premise is flawed and unworkable.
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Actually the solution has been in the table from the off. NI backstop ticks most of the boxes and shockingly it's what the people of NI want. I suspect it might end up back there in the end.
 
scaramanga said:
A PM is battling to stop parliament from going against the democratic mandate of the people and you consider that a disgrace?

This is parliament Vs the people and the PM is on our side.
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ha. I was wondering when someone would paste that guff in here. Leave never campaigned on no deal so the framing is ridiculous. As we're in election soundbite mode what about 'dictatorship vs democracy' or 'prorougers vs the people' or more accurately 'deal vs no deal'.
DHWE4D6XsAArLk8.jpg
 
Rorschach said:
ha. I was wondering when someone would paste that guff in here. Leave never campaigned on no deal so the framing is ridiculous. As we're in election soundbite mode what about 'dictatorship vs democracy' or 'prorougers vs the people' or more accurately 'deal vs no deal'.
DHWE4D6XsAArLk8.jpg
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Yet again, the remain side paint what's happening as an attempt to force No Deal. It clearly isn't and is hugely disingenuous to claim so.

Passing any bill that removes No Deal as an option absolutely guarantees us remaining or us leaving on the EU's terms only. I have to give it to the traitors in parliament - it's a clever PR move. Work to reverse the democratic choice of a referendum, whilst claiming the opposition is subverting democracy.

As we currently stand, it's Leave (Deal Vs No Deal) - which is precisely in line with the result of the referendum. If the traitors in parliament are able to put through a bill blocking No Deal then the end result is Remain - not in line with the referendum.
 
Rorschach said:
Actually the solution has been in the table from the off. NI backstop ticks most of the boxes and shockingly it's what the people of NI want. I suspect it might end up back there in the end.
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You are probably right.

Lets face it, whatever the deal leavers will not be happy. Becuase when a deal is agreed and examined the emperors new clothes of brexit is starkly obvious. The Brexit premise that the EU would give us a better deal than we have now in the EU, was always deeply flawed.

Whenever a deal is on the table and open to scrunity, it shows up that Brexit promises were a fraud. There is no cake.
 
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Rorschach said:
I have an idea. He is trying to bring things to a head by taking away the time available to parliament. To what end I'm still not 400% sure, but I am convinced that his motives are not altruistic. I believe he is gambling with the future of a country for his own political ends and whether you are leave or remain you are nothing but a chip in his game. If you can somehow ignore what has gone on before or the fallout of this, at this moment, this is not about you. Whether you are aligned with his goals or not this is a disgrace.
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The difference is a matter of days. And he is trying to prevent parliament neutering us in negotiations.

After 3 years of stalling and time wasting I don't really care if he does screw them out of a few days.
 
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