Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It's definitely real. That and misogyny are two of the main things that keep me a long distance from Labour. I find it sad that a supposedly progressive party is so inherently intolerant.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
It's definitely real. That and misogyny are two of the main things that keep me a long distance from Labour. I find it sad that a supposedly progressive party is so inherently intolerant.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Ian Austin quits Labour blaming Jeremy Corbyn's leadership
Ian Austin has become the ninth MP to quit Labour this week, blaming leader Jeremy Corbyn for "creating a culture of extremism and intolerance".
He told the BBC the leadership had failed to tackle anti-Semitism and had turned the party into a "narrow sect".
But the MP for Dudley North said he had no plans to join the new Independent Group of former Labour and Tory MPs.
Labour deputy leader Tom Watson said it was a "serious blow". The party called on Mr Austin to face a by-election.
A spokesman expressed regret about his decision but said: "He was elected as a Labour MP and so the democratic thing is to resign his seat and let the people of Dudley decide who should represent them."
News of Mr Austin's resignation was first broken by the Express & Star newspaper.
The MP told BBC West Midlands minutes later that his "work for the people in this community is going to carry on as it always has", and that he had been an open critic of Mr Corbyn when he was elected in 2017.
An MP since 2005, Mr Austin said: "This is the most difficult decision I've ever had to take but I've taken it because I've become ashamed of the Labour Party.
"I grew up listening to my dad, who was a refugee from the Holocaust, teaching me about the evils of hatred and prejudice.
"One of the main reasons I joined the Labour Party as a teenager here in Dudley more than 35 years ago was to fight racism and I could never have believed I would be leaving the Labour party because of racism too."
Mr Watson, who recently said he "no longer recognises" the party he was elected deputy leader of in 2015, said he was "deeply saddened" by his close friend's decision to leave.
"I didn't want him to go, not just because he is a friend but because Labour needs people of his experience, calibre and passion if we are to win," he added.
'Zero tolerance'
Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, called Mr Austin's decision to quit the party "very sad".
But he said Labour under Mr Corbyn was "doing its best" on anti-Semitism, and was operating a "zero-tolerance" policy on the issue.
"On that basis, we should move forward, together," he said.
Shadow chancellor John McDonnell has said Labour needs to carry out a "mammoth listening exercise" to address criticism from the party's MPs.
"If it is about the style of the leadership, we'll address that," he said this week. "If it is about policy, we will listen to that as well."
Several MPs have criticised the party's stance on Brexit, with Treasury spokesman Clive Lewis warning of "severe" ramifications if the party was seen to facilitate a "Tory Brexit".
Mr Austin was a minister for regional affairs under Gordon Brown and part of Ed Miliband's front-bench team in opposition.
He said he "agreed" with the eight MPs who left Labour to form the Independent Group earlier this week that things "have got to change".
However, he wants a Brexit deal concluded, rather than a further referendum on EU membership.
While Mr Austin did not rule out joining the group, he told BBC Radio 5 Live he was "not anticipating doing that any time soon".
One of the defectors Luciana Berger, who has described the party as "institutionally anti-Semitic", tweeted that she fully understood why he had come to "this difficult and painful decision".
Another, Chuka Umunna, tweeted his "massive respect" to Mr Austin, adding: "It's painful and hard but he has stayed true to his values and what he believes to be the national interest."
Ian Austin has become the ninth MP to quit Labour this week, blaming leader Jeremy Corbyn for "creating a culture of extremism and intolerance".
He told the BBC the leadership had failed to tackle anti-Semitism and had turned the party into a "narrow sect".
But the MP for Dudley North said he had no plans to join the new Independent Group of former Labour and Tory MPs.
Labour deputy leader Tom Watson said it was a "serious blow". The party called on Mr Austin to face a by-election.
A spokesman expressed regret about his decision but said: "He was elected as a Labour MP and so the democratic thing is to resign his seat and let the people of Dudley decide who should represent them."
News of Mr Austin's resignation was first broken by the Express & Star newspaper.
The MP told BBC West Midlands minutes later that his "work for the people in this community is going to carry on as it always has", and that he had been an open critic of Mr Corbyn when he was elected in 2017.
An MP since 2005, Mr Austin said: "This is the most difficult decision I've ever had to take but I've taken it because I've become ashamed of the Labour Party.
"I grew up listening to my dad, who was a refugee from the Holocaust, teaching me about the evils of hatred and prejudice.
"One of the main reasons I joined the Labour Party as a teenager here in Dudley more than 35 years ago was to fight racism and I could never have believed I would be leaving the Labour party because of racism too."
Mr Watson, who recently said he "no longer recognises" the party he was elected deputy leader of in 2015, said he was "deeply saddened" by his close friend's decision to leave.
"I didn't want him to go, not just because he is a friend but because Labour needs people of his experience, calibre and passion if we are to win," he added.
'Zero tolerance'
Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, called Mr Austin's decision to quit the party "very sad".
But he said Labour under Mr Corbyn was "doing its best" on anti-Semitism, and was operating a "zero-tolerance" policy on the issue.
"On that basis, we should move forward, together," he said.
Shadow chancellor John McDonnell has said Labour needs to carry out a "mammoth listening exercise" to address criticism from the party's MPs.
"If it is about the style of the leadership, we'll address that," he said this week. "If it is about policy, we will listen to that as well."
Several MPs have criticised the party's stance on Brexit, with Treasury spokesman Clive Lewis warning of "severe" ramifications if the party was seen to facilitate a "Tory Brexit".
Mr Austin was a minister for regional affairs under Gordon Brown and part of Ed Miliband's front-bench team in opposition.
He said he "agreed" with the eight MPs who left Labour to form the Independent Group earlier this week that things "have got to change".
However, he wants a Brexit deal concluded, rather than a further referendum on EU membership.
While Mr Austin did not rule out joining the group, he told BBC Radio 5 Live he was "not anticipating doing that any time soon".
One of the defectors Luciana Berger, who has described the party as "institutionally anti-Semitic", tweeted that she fully understood why he had come to "this difficult and painful decision".
Another, Chuka Umunna, tweeted his "massive respect" to Mr Austin, adding: "It's painful and hard but he has stayed true to his values and what he believes to be the national interest."
The majority of the left tend to hold themselves up to higher ideals and its a stick for the right to hit them with. The Tories had Johnson in the cabinet after all his implicit and explicit racism with less fuss.
I am not aware of Derek Hatton and I am sure there is a lot of history but what is being reported https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47312006 :-
In a tweet in 2012, he urged "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" to condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering".
Replace with
In a tweet in 2012, he urged "Muslim people with any sense of humanity" to condemn Saudis "ruthless murdering".
and there is no issue.
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Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Someone mentioned why the country voted leave and blamed immigration but I think this thread and whats going on politcally shows more about what the main issues were leading to leave. I am not saying immigration was not a large factor, it was, but why was it a problem for people enough to vote leave? It was a lack of engagement from the powers that be which we still see today, the lesser classes whose fears were pied off as just racist, without listening and addressing and those fears were played on by leave, thats because their job was made easy, people were worried, scared and uneducated on imigration for years, the papers peddled it for years and the people worried were told they had no right to worry or vent when the government should have done more to explain and educate. Local governments should have done more to educate areas like Basildon and even where i lived in Grays where there were huge influx and people were not told or explained where the surge came from, it caused tensions and people just had to deal with it. Is it any shock it was preyed on and the rise of Tommy Robinson came to the fore as he was clever as was Farage and gave those people that were not listened to, or felt they were not and gave them a voice.
But it was not just immigration that was the rise of the voiceless, it was silly for the Coservatives to give the people the vote as they had messed up on so much policy and people felt cut off in so many areas of the UK that the vote gave them the voice. Farms, Fishing, Lower Classes a host of people that voted for leave di dso after years of being ignored or pigeon holed as this that or the other.
But it was not just immigration that was the rise of the voiceless, it was silly for the Coservatives to give the people the vote as they had messed up on so much policy and people felt cut off in so many areas of the UK that the vote gave them the voice. Farms, Fishing, Lower Classes a host of people that voted for leave di dso after years of being ignored or pigeon holed as this that or the other.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
that would be an equally ridiculous statement
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Governments need to function on the basis of consent. And consent had never before been sought for inflicting social dumping on the communities. Thatcher and Major just pushed it through in the late 80s/early 90s, and Blair wrenched it up again in the early 00s. Maybe no one asked the question before because they had better judgement on what the answer would be. That people want their interests to trump those of big business.
No one but a handful of far right bigots minds immigration linked to spouses, education, refugees etc. The complaint is against big business bringing in cheaper labour to undercut wages, while avoiding paying the taxes necessary to expand the infrastructure to cope with the population growth. Brexit happened because the masses were losing from globalisation.
No one but a handful of far right bigots minds immigration linked to spouses, education, refugees etc. The complaint is against big business bringing in cheaper labour to undercut wages, while avoiding paying the taxes necessary to expand the infrastructure to cope with the population growth. Brexit happened because the masses were losing from globalisation.
Hatton's a fudging scumbag who doesn't deserve oxygen. I don't think anti-Semitism is why though.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
The Labour Party is "moving towards" backing a second referendum, John McDonnell has warned, as he indicated that it could become the price their MPs would demand from Theresa May to support her Brexit deal.
The Shadow Chancellor told the Evening Standard that "we've kept [a second referendum] on the table and we're moving towards that", suggesting that an amendment by MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson calling for the party to back a deal provided there was a public vote on it "could be a solution". The amendment has reportedly been endorsed by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer at an internal party meeting this week.
The Shadow Chancellor told the Evening Standard that "we've kept [a second referendum] on the table and we're moving towards that", suggesting that an amendment by MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson calling for the party to back a deal provided there was a public vote on it "could be a solution". The amendment has reportedly been endorsed by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer at an internal party meeting this week.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
People of Essex need to do more than condemn ugly hatchback car modifications.
You can’t assume complicity based on such simple metrics.
Yes - I was making a comment on the reaction to the statement rather than the validity of the statement, I agree with what you are saying on the later.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
It was equally ridiculous when Javid said it.
We also shouldn't ignore the distinction between religion and race.
going off on a tangent - Religion and Ethnic group (according to https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/are-jews-an-ethnic-minority-the-bbc-doesn-t-think-so-1.441775)
according to that could Muslim also be classed as an Ethnic group? Looking at it briefly why is Sikh / Jew covered but Muslim not?
Ethnic origins
The law says an ethnic group is a group who share the same history and cultural traditions. In addition, the group may share one or more of the following things:
- the same language
- the same religion
- the same literature
- the same geographical origin
- being an oppressed group
- being a minority.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I guess ethnic groups are communities from small regions - Tinkers from Ireland, Jews from Israel, Romanies from Romania and Sikhs from Punjab. You can also be part of those groups yet still secular.
Whereas religions are pan-national and you can't be a secular member of those communities.
Just guesses
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
The funny part on that is those that came in for the first wave and qualified for a vote....voted leave to protect their jobs from further percieved dumping aka the poles.
Jews are not from Israel though are they? Most of the UK Jews would have very little link to Israel I would guess (unless you are going back 2000 years), brief look and they are largely from Russia and Europe, the US has more Jewish people than Israel.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
I'd agree with you on this.
The government privatised looking after asylum seeksers accomodation. I personally havn't seen any asylum seekers, because Serco the company who run it, put them all in the poorest places in the UK. Where housing is cheapest. The local populations then have a disproportionate number of asylum seekers in their area which is deprived anyway.
I think this ^ is one factor that's only recently been understood.
I agree about engagment. And popularism is somethign happening all over the world, and its a desire to refresh and shake up politics. That politicans are not yet thinking outside the box, offering genuine innovatation or changes is part of the problem. Politics is not really different to how it was 50 years ago. There is a lot that could be doneto update politics and government imo.
That we ended up leaving a progressive trading block, the world's biggest free trade area, that controls pollution and sticks up for workers rights etc. was and still is a gross misunderstanding imo, a way of blaming internal issues we need to address on an outside other.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
You could say all jews originated from Isreal - or at least that area. European jews however have about 10-15% Russian or eastern european DNA.
Re. comparing Isreal's acts against say Hammas with Saudis killing of a journalist, are they equal? Maybe if you found an example of Isreal detaining a suspect and then murding them it might be. But even then some might argue that it is part of a conflict situation. Whereas inviting a sorvign journalist to your embassy in a third country and murder one of your own people is another level.
The acts are not equal no, I wasn't trying to indicate they were. The statements however are comparable asking specific peoples to condemn a state that is not their own based upon religion / ethnicity, Hatten was suspended due to "blaming Jews" for Israeli government policy not for criticising Israeli government policy.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Its the same in the US, their Tommy Robinson aka Trump tapped into the generation left behind by the dwindling of industries and no plan B.
Wrong or right the biggest problem with politics is lack of dialogue with those that matter, people don't want to be talked at but engaged and in this age you won't get away with it, social media is so powerful and full of so much crap you have to be on point every step of the way, you can't allow your voters to believe the lies and thats as much the responsibility of those in power to maintain a status quo as it is those peddling the liews. regardless of class and status now people smell flimflam or at least being brushed off.
Thats why we ended up with Brexit in my opinion. The legacy of being talked to and the promise of a better future for general election votes that ended up with no outcome.
Brexit was probably the frustration of the unheard voice for 30/40 years