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Toby Alderweireld

harr1984 said:
He's our best defender, the Verts/Toby partnership has proved to be easily our most solid. Yes we buy potential but to date our only genuine world class player has been Kane, so its not like we have a long list of purhcases that have replaced our top stars we have lost. Sold Bale, other than Eriksen we didnt get anyone close to that level. Sold Modric, didnt get anyone in close to that level. Sold Walker, havent got anyone in close to his level yet (albeit I still have hopes for Aurier). All this we can buy 2/3 players normally means we are taking a couple of steps back first. Obviously our strength is in the collective and the way the team as a whole operates not relying on an individual. But I suggest actually maintaining some of our stars in their peak years would be better than replacing them with potential year after year. That is definitely part of the reason why we fall short, and the new stadium Im sure is going to partly help us out in this aspect....
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And despite all that we have gone from EUROPA league chasers, to CL chasers, to CL regulars and title chasers.

Something must be going right, perhaps how many world class players we have isnt the best measure?

Dont get me wrong, given the choice Id have Alderweireld sign a new deal and stay. Id rather keep our best players. However, selling one to get in three has served us well so far, to the degree Im really quite comfortable with it.

We were linked with Delight and Barrios (Columbian lad) this week. Alderweireld would cover both of them.

Sanchez has already effectively replaced him, so based on last seasons squad DeLight would add strength. And, potentially, be a long term top tier replacement (he is 18, compared to Toby at 29).

Barrios I know little about, but it adds depth to midfield where we desperately need it.

This should be, on balance, better for us, based on one sale for two buys. Thats before we even get into spending out of our budget on forwards etc...
 
harr1984 said:
He's our best defender, the Verts/Toby partnership has proved to be easily our most solid. Yes we buy potential but to date our only genuine world class player has been Kane, so its not like we have a long list of purhcases that have replaced our top stars we have lost. Sold Bale, other than Eriksen we didnt get anyone close to that level. Sold Modric, didnt get anyone in close to that level. Sold Walker, havent got anyone in close to his level yet (albeit I still have hopes for Aurier). All this we can buy 2/3 players normally means we are taking a couple of steps back first. Obviously our strength is in the collective and the way the team as a whole operates not relying on an individual. But I suggest actually maintaining some of our stars in their peak years would be better than replacing them with potential year after year. That is definitely part of the reason why we fall short, and the new stadium Im sure is going to partly help us out in this aspect....
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Toby has been poor this season and his peak years are behind him imo, Sanchez and Verts have been our best partnership. It's a lot of money for a player with a volatile value.

Sold Bale, bought Eriksen, Lamela and a few other players we flipped for profit, success of a transfer isn't measured solely on the pitch in the following season. For all of our sales in the last 15 years we now have the strongest squad the club has ever had.

I think Trippier has been good, I don't feel we've dropped a level at RB.
 
Happy with £75m. He's getting on and injury prone and we did most of the season without him. Unfortunately we arent as big as United and money talks. I trust Levy and Pochettino. Do it. Do it now!!!

Although it probably wont be £75m. Unfortunately players move on and they do go to rivals. Fans from all clubs need to get over this.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its not £25m, its £75m and then whatever we choose to do with it.

If thats De Light, then fine, could be someone else entirely. Point is, it will go to strengthening the team/squad as it always does.

And given he has basically not played all season, is it as big a hit? Effectively he has been replaced - we would be looking to replace the squad option that was vacated but Sanchez promoting to 1st team regular.

Now, if it were Vertonghen, off the back of the season he has just had? Whole other conversation...



I genuinely do not know on what grounds you think he has improved them, but - regardless - they finished 23 points ahead of us. With or without Walker, they were never competition to us.

Anyway - fact is, despite our improvement, we are still in a position where we need to sell to buy.

I think we will add to the pot, I dont think this will be a net spend 0 kind of window, but I still think £75m on a player (who allegedly wants to leave and will be worth 1/3 that in a year) is money we have to consider.

And for us £75m goes a long way. Particularly if we add some £££ to the pot. As well as additional sales (theres always some, and we always get good money on them). We could easily end up with £150m+ to spend on players. Selling Toby contributes massively to that, all while we wont miss him anything like as much as if he had played all season.
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Consider? Yes absolutely. Like I said its saying we should rip their hand off for it that I dont agree with. Just because its good money doesnt mean we are going to buy players who are better. Do you think we are going to forever just keep selling our best players and get in as good a quality replacements? Each signing is a risk. Poch doesnt exactly have a brilliant record in the transfer market so just saying it all adds more money to the pot doesnt mean all of a sudden we are getting another couple of potentially top class players in. Unless we are going down the route of purchasing a couple of established quality players like we have discussed and then that is different....
 
galeforce said:
Toby has been poor this season and his peak years are behind him imo, Sanchez and Verts have been our best partnership. It's a lot of money for a player with a volatile value.

Sold Bale, bought Eriksen, Lamela and a few other players we flipped for profit, success of a transfer isn't measured solely on the pitch in the following season. For all of our sales in the last 15 years we now have the strongest squad the club has ever had.

I think Trippier has been good, I don't feel we've dropped a level at RB.
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Toby is 29 and a CB. His peak years arent behind him at all. Trippier has been good, Im a fan of his. But better or even as good as Walker? Not for me....
 
Wheather he's past it, in his prime, crooked or whatever. He wants his big payday and he wont get that at Spurs currently.
If we get between £50-£60 then its a no brainer. No we dont wants to strengthen anybody in EPL but thems the cards we have been dealt.
We suck it up and move on!
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its not £25m, its £75m and then whatever we choose to do with it.

If thats De Light, then fine, could be someone else entirely. Point is, it will go to strengthening the team/squad as it always does.
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It doesn't always actually strengthen the team though. Often you can buy players who weaken the team, especially as the failure rate of signings is so high.

Klopp and Balague were talking last night on the radio about how Liverpool got stronger not replacing Coutinho, while Arsenal weakened themselves by buying the wrong players in Lacazette and Aubameyang
 
Gutter Boy said:
It doesn't always actually strengthen the team though. Often you can buy players who weaken the team, especially as the failure rate of signings is so high.

Klopp and Balague were talking last night on the radio about how Liverpool got stronger not replacing Coutinho, while Arsenal weakened themselves by buying the wrong players in Lacazette and Aubameyang
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I’m far from convinced pool have got stronger losing Coutinho... they have lost their main creative midfielder which is needed on this league as demonstrated by some of their results like Swansea for example

I think there CL results have made people think they have fixed a problem but it’s glossing over a lower league points return from a squad that had serious investment in it

The failure rate isn’t necessarily high... it’s the expectations that are due to the fees now involved which we all known are false and blown out of proportion
 
Terrible if we sell him anyway but even worse selling to Utd. Utd are a direct rival currently and this strengthens them. It might seem like good money now but if we lost out to a league or champions league place because of Utd strong defence it will cost us a lot more!

We need to start acting like a big club if we want to progress. We need to pay our top players the going rate. If you were one of the best at your job you would expect to be paid the best so you cant blame him for asking for the money.

We are a champions league club, cash rich and a new stadium that will generate much more money, when will we move forward and compete! ultimately we have improved but we haven't achieved anything yet. Selling the likes of Toby doesn't send out a good message to the other players.
 
harr1984 said:
Consider? Yes absolutely. Like I said its saying we should rip their hand off for it that I dont agree with. Just because its good money doesnt mean we are going to buy players who are better. Do you think we are going to forever just keep selling our best players and get in as good a quality replacements? Each signing is a risk. Poch doesnt exactly have a brilliant record in the transfer market so just saying it all adds more money to the pot doesnt mean all of a sudden we are getting another couple of potentially top class players in. Unless we are going down the route of purchasing a couple of established quality players like we have discussed and then that is different....
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Its terminology, I wouldnt be hung up on it myself.

I do think we will forever sell our best players (eventually), its the same for all clubs bar Madrid/Barca.

I do think we will always do our best to replace them. And, if you look at our business, we are very good at it.

I would like to trade in more "confirmed" quality, for sure, and I think increasingly we will.

I also fully expect us to continue looking for the next big thing, same as always.

Gutter Boy said:
It doesn't always actually strengthen the team though. Often you can buy players who weaken the team, especially as the failure rate of signings is so high.

Klopp and Balague were talking last night on the radio about how Liverpool got stronger not replacing Coutinho, while Arsenal weakened themselves by buying the wrong players in Lacazette and Aubameyang
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Thats just bland football generalisation. Of course every transfer is a risk. Or even every transfer not taken.

We where we are by doing exactly this kind of deal, it has served us very well.

As good as Toby is, he is 29, his fitness is no longer guaranteed, he is of ever decreasing value, and he had virtually no impact on the season just passed. Sanchez wasnt as good as Toby at his best, but he was very good and will improve. And IMHO a fit Dembele/Wanyama midfield all season would have made Sachez look even better.

Selling Toby this summer is not the catastrophe it would have appeared last summer.

AND, we get to fill weak areas of the squad as well.
 
Spursman said:
Terrible if we sell him anyway but even worse selling to Utd. Utd are a direct rival currently and this strengthens them. It might seem like good money now but if we lost out to a league or champions league place because of Utd strong defence it will cost us a lot more!

We need to start acting like a big club if we want to progress. We need to pay our top players the going rate. If you were one of the best at your job you would expect to be paid the best so you cant blame him for asking for the money.

We are a champions league club, cash rich and a new stadium that will generate much more money, when will we move forward and compete! ultimately we have improved but we haven't achieved anything yet. Selling the likes of Toby doesn't send out a good message to the other players.
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I raise the same point every time someone says Arsenal buying another forward means they are going to over take us.

Arsenal have a VERY good attack. A terrible midfield and defence.

If they buy another forward, even if that forward improves their attack, they are only marginally stronger in their strongest area. They still have a terrible midfield and defence, and ultimately thats what matters.

The day they buy some quality at CM and CB is the day they will really become stronger and more competitive.

Its the same with Utd. Mourinho sets his whole team up to defend. To improve his defence is to strengthen marginally. He still has a bland midfield and stilted front line. Alderweireld doesnt offer him the genuine improvement that a quality CM player would.

If he goes to Utd (obviously all speculation at this point) he strengthens their strongest attribute, a bit. Its hardly game changing.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I raise the same point every time someone says Arsenal buying another forward means they are going to over take us.

Arsenal have a VERY good attack. A terrible midfield and defence.

If they buy another forward, even if that forward improves their attack, they are only marginally stronger in their strongest area. They still have a terrible midfield and defence, and ultimately thats what matters.

The day they buy some quality at CM and CB is the day they will really become stronger and more competitive.

Its the same with Utd. Mourinho sets his whole team up to defend. To improve his defence is to strengthen marginally. He still has a bland midfield and stilted front line. Alderweireld doesnt offer him the genuine improvement that a quality CM player would.

If he goes to Utd (obviously all speculation at this point) he strengthens their strongest attribute, a bit. Its hardly game changing.
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I see your point on this but football can be about small margins and if he gives them that bit extra who knows what it would lead to.
 
Spursman said:
I see your point on this but football can be about small margins and if he gives them that bit extra who knows what it would lead to.
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Im pretty sure, not a lot different to this season

Now, if he did something to get Pogba, Sanchez etc really firing Id be more concerned, but adding a CB doesnt fill me with any particular worry. No matter how good Toby is.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I raise the same point every time someone says Arsenal buying another forward means they are going to over take us.

Arsenal have a VERY good attack. A terrible midfield and defence.

If they buy another forward, even if that forward improves their attack, they are only marginally stronger in their strongest area. They still have a terrible midfield and defence, and ultimately thats what matters.

The day they buy some quality at CM and CB is the day they will really become stronger and more competitive.

Its the same with Utd. Mourinho sets his whole team up to defend. To improve his defence is to strengthen marginally. He still has a bland midfield and stilted front line. Alderweireld doesnt offer him the genuine improvement that a quality CM player would.

If he goes to Utd (obviously all speculation at this point) he strengthens their strongest attribute, a bit. Its hardly game changing.
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I see the point you are making but Liverpool still have a dodgy defence and weak midfield and its done them no harm.
 
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