Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[harr1984]

Looking into the future is always fraught with danger. But let's look at likely/possible scenario for the end of this season and its possible consequences for next.

This season
Liverpool win the league.
City fail to win CL.
We move into new stadium and finish top 4.
OGS does enough to get man u job.

Close season we sign for instance the lad Fekir and say grey from Leicester.
Hazard leaves Chelsea.

Next season
Liverpool are dead on their feet, when did a team last defend the league successfully.
Pep really has to focus on CL.
OGS finds out what it really means to be man utd manager.
Chelsea have sold their best player.
Trying to be semi serious here so won't mention arsenal.
With the feel good factor of the new stadium I would say that for the first time we are serious title contenders.

All total pie in the sky stuff of course, but you can see why people get carried away.
Would be fun to revisit this this time next year.

So basically all the other big clubs have issues, but everything goes swimmingly for us of course

Most teams dont actually have great records moving into new stadium, Im not convinced we will become instant title challengers because of that. But like you say, all pie in the sky - we live in hope.....

 

[Grays_1890]

Has he ever said he's not bothered about losing? That sounds like utter nonsense to me.

He puts his faith in the squad and if we lose, we lose. Some games require resting. I'm sure the disappointment is just as strong amongst the coaching staff and squad.

Yeh I am sure, and like I said at the start I side on the top 4 and money being important, I am just saying that I do also understand the frustrations of the fans in being knocked out of two trophies in one week, its probably a more natural reaction than us sitting here with this methodical view on Spurs.

 

[glasgowspur]

So basically all the other big clubs have issues, but everything goes swimmingly for us of course

Most teams dont actually have great records moving into new stadium, Im not convinced we will become instant title challengers because of that. But like you say, all pie in the sky - we live in hope.....

It's my lunch and I'm bored!

 

[billyiddo]

So basically all the other big clubs have issues, but everything goes swimmingly for us of course

Most teams dont actually have great records moving into new stadium, Im not convinced we will become instant title challengers because of that. But like you say, all pie in the sky - we live in hope.....

We're in a unique situation by way of having a temporary home for 2 seasons prior to moving in to our new home, most other new stadiums have seen their clubs go straight from old to new - plus we adapted pretty well to moving stadiums last season so we already have something to refer to when predicting how we will fair this time around, that experience may give us an edge to adapting to the new ground as may the relief of moving back 'home'/ to a more fit for purpose stadium. Im predicting we'll settle in pretty sharpish - if we can get in for a few games this season then all the better for 19/20

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We don’t HAVE to. But when Poch doesn’t include players like Rose or Eriksen against Palace and we go out of the FA cup it comes up as a issue of what matters to us as fans and what matters to the club as their priority.

We have Dortmund in the CL knock outs next, and had Chelsea in the cup semi prior, and we currently have a serious injury crisis.

Poch put out a team that could beat Palace. Obviously it didnt, but it was good enough to do so.

He took the choice to rest key players ahead of the hardest of our 3 game run, for which I do not blame him at all.

I would assume he did so on the basis of far more information than we are privvy to. Eriksen has played a hell of a lot of football and Rose is still returning to fitness after a lay off, so Im sure you can imagine some context around that.

So I have to say, really, its quite disingenuous of you to frame the point as you have.

IMHO, he has put out as strong a side as he can in each of the last two games, and will also do so against Dortmund. What more can we ask?

 

[parklane1]

so many fecktards elsewhere calling for Poch & Levy to go...seriously...wtf??????

Sad is it not, unfortunately its one of the sad things in todays game that there are hordes of idiots who have no idea about the game and just like to spout flimflam about what we should be doing.

Tbf Spurs is different from the others as we have different expecations. Had Poch not won anything at say Chelsea or Man Utd but secured top 4 would he still be in a job? Probably not.

Flip it the other way, how many coaches/managers in the world are considered top class yet have never won a trophy? Whilst it is right we prioritise CL qualification for now, this excuse isnt going to run for too many more years. Its widely accepted on here that Poch in all likelihood wont be here for that many more seasons so he really does need to win trophies sometime soon here if he wants to go down as one of the all time greats. Here's hoping.....

Good post, over the past few season i have been tinkled off on more then one occasion at our team selections for cup matches and our dismissal of actually wanting to win them. But to be honest this season we have had better team selections and in all honesty i believe we deserved to win both the games against Chelski and Palace.

I said a few years back IF we keep failing to WIN things i was afraid some of out better players would leave and go somewhere to achieve that. Since then we have lost Walker and it seemed that both Rose and Toby were eyeing greener pastures. Now there is a load of worry the Eriksen MAY be looking elsewhere ( who knows). If players do not win trophys then most of them will start to look elsewhere eventually.

 

[Hotspur75]

The more it looks like we will not be signing anyone in the January window, the more I am convinced that Poch is here for the (very) long term. Think about it: managers who want instant success to further their career insist on signings (Mourinho, but there are many other examples). Poch's statements in words (I can live with not signing anyone, or something like this), and in deeds (playing the kids, believing in the long-term value of at least Skipp, KWP and Foyth, perhaps Amos too) can be interpreted only as a signal that he is willing to bide his time to make signings that really add to what we already have. This, too, is something he has been saying for a long time, although not as explicitly in recent months IIRC.

If we were to sign Rabiot, that for me would bring concerns re: Poch's long-term plans - although I am convinced he will not leave us for Man U. Focusing on getting rid of Janssen and GKN, even if no new recruits arrive, tells me there is a strategy beyond this window which DL and Poch have agreed on.

 

[StephenH]

I said a few years back IF we keep failing to WIN things i was afraid some of out better players would leave and go somewhere to achieve that. Since then we have lost Walker and it seemed that both Rose and Toby were eyeing greener pastures. Now there is a load of worry the Eriksen MAY be looking elsewhere ( who knows). If players do not win trophys then most of them will start to look elsewhere eventually.

Winning either domestic cups will not stop any of the aforementioned players from leaving.

Not playing in the Champions league would almost definitely hasten their departure.

The big plus of a cup win besides the bloody obvious one will be stopping the media and fans prattling on about it.

 

[parklane1]

Winning either domestic cups will not stop any of the aforementioned players from leaving.

Not playing in the Champions league would almost definitely hasten their departure.

The big plus of a cup win besides the bloody obvious one will be stopping the media and fans prattling on about it.

Point 1, not true

Point 2, i agree

Point 3, it would be a plus for all.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Winning the FA or League cup would do nothing for convincing Eriksen to stay, IMHO.

They are nice to have, but hardly a measure of true success or quality.

The EPL and CL, with their league formats, and higher level of competition offer genuine prestige upon winning.

Its chalk and cheese.

 

[parklane1]

Winning the FA or League cup would do nothing for convincing Eriksen to stay, IMHO.

They are nice to have, but hardly a measure of true success or quality.

The EPL and CL, with their league formats, and higher level of competition offer genuine prestige upon winning.

Its chalk and cheese.

And the chances of us winning the EPL and CL in the next few seasons are? dust i would imagine. I am not saying Erikisen will stay if we won one of the cups, but what i know is that the vast majority of players want to win medals and i have never meant one who does not.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

And the chances of us winning the EPL and CL in the next few seasons are? dust i would imagine. I am not saying Erikisen will stay if we won one of the cups, but what i know is that the vast majority of players want to win medals and i have never meant one who does not.

Im not saying any player DOESNT want to win a medal, of any description, Im saying winning the FA or League cup wouldnt be something to keep a player at the club.

Its a one off Jolly, its not the Oscar on the mantle piece.

 

[Jordinho]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089909632011829248

 

[90291Spur]

We have Dortmund in the CL knock outs next, and had Chelsea in the cup semi prior, and we currently have a serious injury crisis.

Poch put out a team that could beat Palace. Obviously it didnt, but it was good enough to do so.

He took the choice to rest key players ahead of the hardest of our 3 game run, for which I do not blame him at all.

I would assume he did so on the basis of far more information than we are privvy to. Eriksen has played a hell of a lot of football and Rose is still returning to fitness after a lay off, so Im sure you can imagine some context around that.

So I have to say, really, its quite disingenuous of you to frame the point as you have.

IMHO, he has put out as strong a side as he can in each of the last two games, and will also do so against Dortmund. What more can we ask?

You've read me incorrectly. Many posters on here want a trophy, seemingly at any cost. I was framing the point from the perspective of those who think we should dispense with other priorities to win the FA or league cup. I agree with your points about resting players and be under no illusion that I would prefer us to get stronger as a club - which means regular CL football - than wi a trophy. Poch is in the top three mangers of our history (and we had Tim Sherwood AND Christian Gross) and has built a squad that has not only achieved things we have not achieved, but also played brillinat football with many. many academy players.

 

[indospurs]

I back Poch, what a manager.

 

[Robspur12]

I back Poch, what a manager.

Agreed. No matter how gutted I was on Sunday I didn't lose sight of how important this guy is to our future.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Where exactly have Liverpool got?
So far, poch and klopp have the same amount of trophies.
0

Indeed 0...but who has gotten 'closer'? And who is closer atm?
Again, one club seems to be trying, the other thinks "trophies are just for egos"...sigh

 

[glorygloryeze]

How on earth is saying you want to win the CL and PL "small time"? One might question whether it is a realistic ambition for us (and it is, imo, realistic to have those in our sights), but it is not small time.
Of course winning a domestic trophy would be fantastic. I would absolutely love it. But Poch is right, it is not going to get us to where we need to be and it is not going to do anything in terms of keeping our top players. We are unfortunately in a position where we have to prioritise - injuries and the fixture list don't allow us the luxury of playing our first 11. I get that might lead into a retort about our lack of transfer activity in the summer but that's been done to death and we are where we are and have to cut our cloth accordingly.
And speaking of cutting cloth - there can be no argument about the monetary merits of pushing through the CL stages, rather than winning the FA Cup :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089598547857731585

Right now, it is obvious where our focus needs to be.
Remember also Poch saying recently that when he took the job, his remit from Levy was to make sure we were in the CL for the new stadium. Well, technically that's something he still has to achieve, as we are not yet in NWHL. Like most of us, Poch's priorities are set by his boss. I have no issue with him being open about what they are.

I am disappointed that we didn't win yesterday but any 'anger' I might have is more at how the selected team played, especially in the first half, rather than us not being in tonight's draw. That team, whilst a bit cobbled together, should still have had enough about it not to be 2-0 down in the first half. Poch put out a team he believed were good enough to win the game. He wasn't throwing it and anyone with eyes and ears could see/hear he was far from happy with the result. But he's sanguine enough to know this week is not season-defining for us.

That's all well and good, but you have to walk before you can run. We are currently not good enough to win the PL or the CL; so to get sniffy about the other trophies that a top 6 club CAN win is poor form and goes against all that och has been trying to build.

It's no disgrace to go out of 2 cups in a short time, cups are a lottery. But to try and pooh-pooh it as though "trophies are just for peasants" is that sort of thing that Fergie and Wenger could get away with but not something that Poch is in a position to even begin to say given that he's been with us nearly 5 years and not won anything.

How does he advertise himself/the club by saying "we don't care about 2 of the 4 competitions we can win just come and earn the money from finishing 3rd/4th and play nicely in the CL before collecting the extra money and going again" etc etc

The best managers who REALLY DO have winning attitudes go for all trophies (not equally i know); in fact the other top 6 managers almost all won one of the domestic trophies BEFORE winning the PL or CL.

Poor, poor comments from Poch and ones i fear will eventually bite us/him in the butt

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Indeed 0...but who has gotten 'closer'? And who is closer atm?
Again, one club seems to be trying, the other thinks "trophies are just for egos"...sigh

By this you mean Spurs are the ones trying, right?

One of these teams has got to a semi final of the league cup and 4th round of the Fa Cup, the other team was knocked out at the first hurdle in both competitions. CL both clubs are at the same stage.

I’m not saying we are having a better season or anything like it, just that in the context you speak of “who is closer atm. One club seems to be trying the other club thinks cups are for egos”, I’m not sure you can suggest Liverpool are trying to win the Fa cup or league cup more than Spurs and both teams are clearly trying to win the CL and PL!

 

[nayenezgani]

Indeed 0...but who has gotten 'closer'? And who is closer atm?
Again, one club seems to be trying, the other thinks "trophies are just for egos"...sigh

Cut it out mate, it's sad at this point. You're taking a quote said in the heat of the moment and using it to stir up discord.

If you don't think Poch is trying to win trophies then you're fudging deluded.