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Burning a man alive WTF

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by Danishfurniturelover, 5 Feb 2015.

  1. scaramanga

    scaramanga Mel Hopkins Staff Member

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    I agree with pretty much all of that (other than the deism bit).

    Surely Islamophobia is just a part of a correct mindset. I'm not sure Christianophobia is a word but I feel it every bit as strongly as Islamophobia. The only one I would struggle to append "ophobia" to is probably Buddhism - mainly because I have too much hatred of gap year cvnts to call it a phobia, it's just flat out hatred.
     
  2. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Don't know if you've seen Four Lions, scara, but it's a great movie that you and anyone else interested in this sort of discussion should take a gander at, if you haven't already - it encapsulates a lot of the moral complexity that comes with dealing with the radicals in Islam, and it's mostly chuckle-worthy in its own right as a decent comedy.
    :)

    Edit: Buddhists and Marley: basically my undergraduate uni dorm, so needless to say I agree with you there. :) And yeah, I've got nothing against your views on all religions: it's just single out one of 'em that gets my goat.
     
  3. Yossarian

    Yossarian Steve Hodge

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    A phobia is an irrational fear of something.
     
  4. DTA

    DTA Sergei Rebrov

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    Really.... but that kid with a 10 year old life expectancy beats the odds and lives till 76. Not only that, he is a freaking genius and saves the lives through his inventions of a billion people..... But you would have him killed?
     
  5. DTA

    DTA Sergei Rebrov

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    You shouldn't mess with scara's head like that ;)
     
    Yossarian likes this.
  6. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    I was very sad at how this thread has turned out, it was created because of my utter bewilderment and failure to understand how people could do something so barbaric. I feel people are trying to over think something that does not need it I am also saddened that I feel the have been frankly what I would call apologists for the actions that the terrorists perpetuated.
     
  7. Yossarian

    Yossarian Steve Hodge

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    Fixed for you Chich!

    See you on the other side mate.
     
  8. DTA

    DTA Sergei Rebrov

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    Dude who are the apologists x?
     
  9. scaramanga

    scaramanga Mel Hopkins Staff Member

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    Since when has the term Islamophobia ever been used to describe an irrational fear of Islam? In fact, it's not even used to describe a fear - it's most commonly used to describe either a dislike or a hatred of it.

    There's every reason for a rational person to have a dislike and a hatred of religion.
     
  10. scaramanga

    scaramanga Mel Hopkins Staff Member

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    I said that it was a moral imperative to save that kid - try reading my post.
     
  11. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Willie Hall

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    hello mate,

    i'll bite ;-)

     
  12. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Willie Hall

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    I think one of the single greatest problems with ISIS is that they simply do not reflect any faith. It appears to me they have hijacked Islam because it suits their Genghis Kahn-like appetite, and to me they are simply an extreme and disparate collection of marauding thieves and murderers who know how to get bodies into the cause. I never thought it was possible to unleash so many despicable sociopaths upon this plant, but they have proven me wrong. As for the cannon-fodder they've picked up along the way, ignorant and hopeless doesn't begin to cover it...




     
  13. DTA

    DTA Sergei Rebrov

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    Didn't you say that it was imperative to save the five kids, sacrificying the one?
     
  14. scaramanga

    scaramanga Mel Hopkins Staff Member

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    Nope, read the post again.
     
  15. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    What? How is this a point?

    Surely if this hypothetical is relevant all other hypothetical situations must also be considered? The one kid grows up engulfed in shame and is plunged into mental illness where eventually he kills hundreds in a psychotic rage? Or one of the 5 other kids might be a genius saving the lives of a billion people...

    Surely the likelihood of saving a potential genius that can save a billion is greater if you save 5 lives instead of 1?

    Most people accept as a basis for the discussion that saving 5 lives is better than saving 1 and ignore the endless number of potential hypothetical situations. That's not the interesting part of the conversation.
     
  16. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    Agreed.

    Sometimes I almost get the feeling that the term is being confused on purpose.

    At least you know you're not playing fair ;)

    I think it's a much better exercise if you accept the terms of the scenario despite the difficulty in doing so.

    It's very interesting how people's views change quite drastically depending on the specific situation, despite the utilitarian outcome being the same (not true for the torture bit). I think the primary value of something like this is realizing that our morals are not strictly utilitarian, and as Scara said it might be about what people can themselves find the courage to do.
     
  17. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    I'm both an atheist and an anti-theist. I have a rather severe distrust and dislike of all religions. I think the concepts of faith, vicarious redemption, false promises of an afterlife, holy books and holy land etc are deeply harmful to society and human happiness and progress. I could expand well into tldr territory, but I don't think it's necessary. This is not just a point of principle, I think that there's an inherent threat from this irrationality in whatever form it's presented.

    However, I also think that some religions are a bigger threat than others at this point in time. And I think Islam is a bigger threat to peace and prosperity right now than the other world religions. I don't think that's particularly controversial, or if it is controversial I think at least some understanding of why I think this should be self evident. As such I think it's fair to single out Islam over other religions for criticism and opposition. Particularly because under the all too viable threat of violence we're being told that we can't criticize Islam. You mention examples of atrocities committed by other religious groups and I agree, criticism and condemnation here is clearly in place. But are you really arguing that Islam is in no way a bigger threat than other religions?

    It's not always been the case that Islam had this position. Hitchens used to argue how during the 1930s the Catholic church was rather clearly the bigger threat to humanity because of it's alliance with fascism. It would then have been much more important to voice concerns and criticisms of the Catholic church than Islam and such a "discrimination" would have been apt in my eyes at least. The threat posed by a nuclear Iran is just much greater than the threat posed by Myanmar.

    To some extent it depends on what you mean by "Islamophobia". If you use a rather literal interpretation of that word I can see your point, an irrational fear will almost certainly be counter productive. But I think Islam deserves a lot of criticism and most certainly criticism that will attracts labels like Islamophobia by those who use such loaded terms on purpose to slander those they disagree with. (Not at all saying, or implying that you're one of them just to be perfectly clear).

    I think the undue respect and reverence religion has had for too long is a much greater factor in the problems we currently have than you seem to think. I think the shift in zeitgeist where criticism of religion is becoming more common is a very good thing, despite some obvious and unfortunate side effects.
     
  18. scaramanga

    scaramanga Mel Hopkins Staff Member

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    OK, here's an example:

    There's a madman, let's call him Muhammed, who is about to lob a grenade into a busy school playground - pin's out, arm back, about to launch. You are too far away to physically stop him, but you do have a gun and you're a pretty good shot. You're confident that you can shoot Muhammed and stop him before he throws the grenade. Unfortunately, there's a few people stood next to him with no idea what's going on - shooting Muhammed will almost certainly kill them.

    Muhammed used to play cricket for Pakistan so he's unlikely to miss his throw.



    It's a logical extension of the problem though. Especially when in response to the fact that it is never the right decision to kill that many civilians. Surely it's logical to test that statement at the extreme?

    Sorry mate, but as braineclipse has already stated the exercise has those parameters for a reason. It's a massive cop out just changing the parameters on a thought exercise. Otherwise we could start coming up with after-the-event knowledge like the fat man being a rapist or something.
     
  19. LutonSpurs

    LutonSpurs Eric Dear

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    I'm both a muslim and an anti-infidel. I have a rather severe distrust and dislike of all infidels. (Not serious BTW)
     
  20. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Okay, well, there's a 9,948 character message incoming, braine: suffice it to say, you brought this upon yourself. :) Anyway, the highlighted point is where the beginning of my reply starts up: I couldn't actually fit a quote of your post into the actual reply. So, read on....
     

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