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Big Summer Clearout?

Jurgen the German said:
La liga has overtaken the premier league in the last couple of years. People go on about madrid and barca dominating, that's because they're two great teams! Bilbao aren't even one of the top sides in Spain, and they embarrassed the best team in our league!

I posted a video of some of falcao's headed goals recently, I'll have to find it for you.
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Agreed. You look at some of La Liga's teams; Firstly Madrid and Barca, the best in the world, pound for pound. But behind them come Valencia, Atletico, Bilbao, Malaga, Sevilla, Espanyol...all possessed of some magnificent players. And you've even got a classy outfit like Villarreal, Nilmar and all, struggling at the bottom.

Here? In England? Beyond the top six, it's a barren, creaky wasteland in terms of genuine top talent. Ooh, Stoke, Fulham and Everton! Terrifying!

The Premier League isn't close to La Liga at the moment. It may change, what with Spain's economic woes and their impending new tax rates prompting an exodus of players, but right now they're clearly superior.
 
Rorschach said:
What about the next 10 best strikers in Europe?
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On current form?

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar
Roberto Soldado
Robert Lewandowski
Diego Milito
Olivier Giroud
Lukas Podolski
Stevan Jovetic
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Hulk
Raul

Out of that lot, Ibra, Hulk, Raul, Giroud and Lewandowski look unattainable. Shall we do a third list to get a better ratio of players willing to join us? Because at the moment, it still doesn't make very good reading.
 
africanspurs said:
la liga isnt the best league in the world for a start. the premiership is. england is just going through a transitionary blip but still people expect english teams in latter round of european contests. you get the same with spanish teams but even then the odds on for the english team to progres is generally higher than their psanish counter parts save you are madrid or barca.

and him proving his heading capability in spain is a non starting point, those poeople are NOT ariel, heading and dealing with headers isnt their forte, its just not their thing. ball on deck is more of what you'll find on the continent.

i'm going to have to take your word on it about his movement........i've seen just wo or three full games, 1 for athletico during their slow start to the season (or slower than expected start should i say)...saw the uefa cup final when he was at porto and saw bit parts of another porto game. basically his movemnet didnt impress me at all. not saying it was bad, its just that it was pretty much what i would expect from any hafl decent forward.

interestingly enough in the uefa cup game, i noted on things. he was very much on the outskirts of that game, couldnt get into properly...which then made me question the build up play of porto or question his hold up play, lone striker capabilities.

he cant possibly be called world class without having more accomplishments in major contests in BIG leagues. anything he did in portugal is marred by the fact that it happened in portugal. not saying we should totally discredit what he did, just that if you had to apply a wieght scheme to the goals that he scored in portugal it wouldnt be as valuable as say for instance 2/3 that amount here in the premiership. i mean , have you seen the level of football in portugal?

if he continues to do what he does for another season and terrorise BIG teams when he gets the chance to , then you can start talking. at which point the name falcao gets talked about more in bigger football governing bodies, more big teams and big players name drop 'falcao' blah blah blah....world class is about talent but more to do with marketing and exposuire to the big big stage..and accomplishing things on that stage

an example would be bale...even last season you wouldnt call him world class but now? after al the exposure he has had ....the selections to various teams of the year, players of the premiership voted etc etc etc..you could say he is world class stamped. even though i think he still has a bit of a way to go before being world class

all the above is just IMHO. most would probably disagree
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No chance. The prem is not even close; skill - spain is better - terms of excitement & goals - Bundesliga is better - in terms of value for money - just about every league in europe is better.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Agreed. You look at some of La Liga's teams; Firstly Madrid and Barca, the best in the world, pound for pound. But behind them come Valencia, Atletico, Bilbao, Malaga, Sevilla, Espanyol...all possessed of some magnificent players. And you've even got a classy outfit like Villarreal, Nilmar and all, struggling at the bottom.

Here? In England? Beyond the top six, it's a barren, creaky wasteland in terms of genuine top talent. Ooh, Stoke, Fulham and Everton! Terrifying!

The Premier League isn't close to La Liga at the moment. It may change, what with Spain's economic woes and their impending new tax rates prompting an exodus of players, but right now they're clearly superior.
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its funny the way you word that...

barca
real madrid

then you go on to mention 4 teams

which woudl bring out 6

but then you rightly mention the top 6 of the premier league are touigh teams......its not like spain have more and it would be worth comparing their top 6 versus ours
 
africanspurs said:
its funny the way you word that...

barca
real madrid

then you go on to mention 4 teams

which woudl bring out 6

but then you rightly mention the top 6 of the premier league are touigh teams......its not like spain have more and it would be worth comparing their top 6 versus ours
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I thought I mentioned nine? Including Villarreal. anyway, it's a good idea to compare the top six. Here goes;

England:
1st: Manchester United

Spain:
1st: Real Madrid CF

No contest, surely? Madrid's first eleven, squad, stadium, staff...all better than United's.

England;
2nd: Emirates Marketing Project

Spain:
2nd: FC Barcelona

Again, do we need to compare? One has Barry and Milner in central midfield, the other...well, I'm sure you can extrapolate.

England:
3rd: FC Woolwich

Spain:
3rd: Valencia CF

Interesting match-up. I'd say it's pretty much even. Sure, Arsenal have a stronger player up front (even if Soldado's no slouch), but Valencia have a dependable back-line (well, did up to a few matches ago), and a great keeper or two.

England:
4th: Tottenham Hotspur FC

Spain
4th:Malaga CF

Again, interesting match-up. My heart says we're always better, but my head protests that they would murder us on current form. Still, we're comparing squads, so we're even, I'd say.

England:
5th: Saudi Sportswashing Machine FC

Spain:
5th: Levante UD S.A.D

Saudi Sportswashing Machine, hands down. Though I love Levante, I must say.

England:
6th: Russian Mafia FC

Spain:
6th: CA Osasuna

Osasuna, hands down. :D

Overall, it's interesting. Fairly even matched. Two Spain wins, two draws and two England wins. However, if you were to compare the teams below that (Everton vs Bilbao, Liverpool vs Atletico Madrid, Sunderland vs Sevilla, Fulham vs Espanyol) it gets a whole lot uglier. I wouldn't fancy us to win any of those.

So I think it comes down to our top six matching them (somewhat; their top two would still murder all our top six sides), but the rest of our league getting shown up for its comparative lack of talent.
 
Bull. Bisides the top2 (and even then Man U are close as a TEAM if not individually) ENgland sides comfortably beat the spanish sides.
Cheslea will show tonight that Barca aren't as good as everyone makes out. They are incredible, but sone people go so overboard
 
GrimsbyYid said:
Bull. Bisides the top2 (and even then Man U are close as a TEAM if not individually) ENgland sides comfortably beat the spanish sides.
Cheslea will show tonight that Barca aren't as good as everyone makes out. They are incredible, but sone people go so overboard
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Believe me mate, I would love it if English sides could comfortably beat their Spanish counterparts, but somehow I can't see it happening. By and large, all we've been going on is 'grit', and good old Terry Butcher-esque 'bulldog' spirit, while they've been coaching ball-playing skills into their youngsters from the age of six. And the game is now tilting away from our style of coaching and toward theirs. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Sure, on an off day we might be able to beat them, but regularly? Those days are likely gone.

And you must be the only Spurs fan save for ArcSpace who actually wants Chelsea to win.:eek:
 
africanspurs said:
this here is a classic example of how exposure puts you in th limelight

you've just put mario gomes in there ahead of etoo.

no one on earth should agree with that i would hope, but the only reason you done mention etoo is because in general his name isnt being mentioned or associated with big leagues and big contests. he basically on the peripherals of football where he is now
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Just out of interest, do you watch the Bundesliga or the Champions League? I don't mean that sarcastically, but if you did watch them, then you'd see how Gomez has been ripping both of them up! 78 goals in the last two seasons, and this season isn't finished yet!
 
africanspurs said:
take your time mate, no need ro rush. besides , i'm not in a hurry to have egg on my face if indeed it does show him stealing yards and spaces infront of defenders and atacking balls aggresively and winning headers against dominating or sizeable CBs with good positioning, LOL.

bilbao did do a number on united i'l give you that. on the flip side...i didnt think valencia showed their dominance against stoke. good football but not really a statement type performance
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Valencia were in complete control of both legs.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Just out of interest, do you watch the Bundesliga or the Champions League? I don't mean that sarcastically, but if you did watch them, then you'd see how Gomez has been ripping both of them up! 78 goals in the last two seasons, and this season isn't finished yet!
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i watch CL but not the german league as i consider that one inferior defensively....BUT it is the continental league that resembles the premiership the most as far as physicality goes.

you know what, i apologisew..i am being lazy. i'm going to go and have a look at gomez CL record. be right back mate
 
GrimsbyYid said:
Bull. Bisides the top2 (and even then Man U are close as a TEAM if not individually) ENgland sides comfortably beat the spanish sides.
Cheslea will show tonight that Barca aren't as good as everyone makes out. They are incredible, but sone people go so overboard
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Bilbao aren't even in the top 6 in La Liga, and they tinkled all over United, our best team.

As Dubai Spurs rightly says, the top 2 in Spain are the best two teams in the world without doubt. The teams from 3rd down to 6th are equally matched in the respective leagues. But do you honestly think Everton or Stoke would beat Bilbao even though United struggled?
 
you know what, the goals he's scoring in the CL is against quality opposition. cant fault that...that record is impressive no matter who you are

mario gomez
 
DubaiSpur said:
Believe me mate, I would love it if English sides could comfortably beat their Spanish counterparts, but somehow I can't see it happening. By and large, all we've been going on is 'grit', and good old Terry Butcher-esque 'bulldog' spirit, while they've been coaching ball-playing skills into their youngsters from the age of six. And the game is now tilting away from our style of coaching and toward theirs. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Sure, on an off day we might be able to beat them, but regularly? Those days are likely gone.

And you must be the only Spurs fan save for ArcSpace who actually wants Chelsea to win.:eek:
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This!

I've never understood this whole wanting the other English teams to win lark. fudge the other teams!
 
Kingdawson said:
One starts from a deep position and goes forward and the other one starts from a more advanced position and drops deep. It would work perfectly imo and we'd actually have a runner from the centre that will bomb forward and create space when vdv has dropped deep to pick up the ball.
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Without that last line I'd've had no idea which description fits which player. Sigurdsson starts from deep? Can't say I've seen that. To me Britton sits deep, Allen plays ahead of him and Sigurdsson plays ahead of him with Dyer and Sinclair either side.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Believe me mate, I would love it if English sides could comfortably beat their Spanish counterparts, but somehow I can't see it happening. By and large, all we've been going on is 'grit', and good old Terry Butcher-esque 'bulldog' spirit, while they've been coaching ball-playing skills into their youngsters from the age of six. And the game is now tilting away from our style of coaching and toward theirs. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Sure, on an off day we might be able to beat them, but regularly? Those days are likely gone.

And you must be the only Spurs fan save for ArcSpace who actually wants Chelsea to win.:eek:
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Trust me. I would love nothing more than for Barca to crucify Chelsea. WHy would any Spurs fan want any risk of us finishing 4th and not getting in the CL?! I just don't think they'll get battered. (Though I do think they'll lose)
 
Rorschach said:
That's close to the exact list I would have picked. There's an argument for Tevez if he'd been playing regularly this year. We might have a remote chance of getting Llorente but the others are untouchable for a club of our stature.

What about the next 10 best strikers in Europe?
Tevez
Rossi (before injury)
Drogba
Soldado
Ibra (sometimes)
Villa
Muller
Carroll
Falcao
Millito
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Just realised I didn't put Falcao in my top ten. I'd maybe swap him for Cavani on current form.

Dunno about Carroll, but agree with most of the others you mentioned.
 
On the whole i usually want english teams in europe to do badly, the exceptions being clubs i see as brothers in arms, like everton.

But i think we need chelsea to go as far as possible so that england keeps getting 4 clubs in there otherwise if it drops to 3 we will be really screwed.
 
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