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Dean Marney
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
It's a shame the Forest job isn't available.
It's a shame the Forest job isn't available.
-
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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I don't believe he's making himself out to be the most knowledgeable man in football. But considering he's played for Spurs, his dad managed Spurs and he knows Sherwood well I'd hedge my bets he's more qualified to comment about the setup at Spurs than people here who know naff all about whats going on behind the scenes....
I don't believe he's making himself out to be the most knowledgeable man in football. But considering he's played for Spurs, his dad managed Spurs and he knows Sherwood well I'd hedge my bets he's more qualified to comment about the setup at Spurs than people here who know naff all about whats going on behind the scenes....
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
and theres more... Redflap junior has really let rip at Levy and Baldini :ross:....some truth in what he says, but plenty of sour grapes too :lol: .......... Former Spurs midfield Jamie Redknapp told Sky Sports News that the decision leaves Spurs in "disarray" and that it is astonishing that Sherwood could be axed while Director of Football Baldini - responsible for bringing in a number of players including £30million flop Erik Lamela after the £85m sale of Gareth Bale to Real Madrid - keeps his.
"If it is the case that Tim is going to be leaving, I think he has been [harshly treated]," said Sky Sports pundit Redknapp. "Tim is a friend of mine - I've known him for many, many years - and he is a genuine football person.
"He was put into a position that wasn't easy at the start - a lot of the players that came in at the start of the season just haven't been good enough; what tends to happen is that the managers take the brunt of this. They've gone through two managers already.
"Franco Baldini and Daniel Levy have to take some responsibility because which players have really come in after the sale of Gareth Bale and made an impact? Maybe you could say Christian Eriksen but apart from that there haven't been too many.
"That's what I find hard to understand. If Tim Sherwood does leave at the end of the season, how can a Director of Football like Franco Baldini keep his job? I find that amazing.
"The young managers get the sack and the people that bring the players in don't have any responsibility. I find that staggering in this day and age.
"The club looks like it is in disarray again. It's amazing because it is such a good club; the fans deserve a lot more than they are getting at the moment."
Staggering
Last week former Spurs manager Glenn Hoddle criticised the club for its transfer policy in the wake of the sale of Bale and Steven Caulker - splashing out on Lamela, Eriksen, Paulinho and Roberto Soldado.
Redknapp said that the hierarchy of the club now have some serious questions to answer.
"I don't know how many managers Daniel Levy has gone through in his time there but he does enjoy sacking managers and sometimes you've got to look at the people close to you, it's not always the managers that are making the mistakes. Sometimes the recruitment could have been better.
"It's been staggering really this summer the players that have come in and all the money that had been spent when you've sold a world-class footballer and brought in six or seven and not one of them has done their job. It's amazing that the people that did that aren't more responsible than the manager.
"As a manager you go in to a football club and you're reliant on people to bring in good players and it just hasn't been the case.
"A few years ago that was completely different and I think that's what the problem is; they're selling all their best players and trying to bring in different players that suit the chairman's wage structure. If you want to progress as a football club unfortunately who have to pay big wages now.
"When they had their opportunity last summer to really push on and see if they could get in to the top four they've missed around with it and had a go, sort of, and it hasn't worked at all.
"They sold Gareth Bale, who's probably the best left-sided player in the world and they've not even bought a left-sided player to replace him and that all boils down to bringing the right players in.
"If you're going to have a Director of Football he's got to know what he's doing, he's got to bring in the right players and if not he's got to say to the manager, 'ok, you do it'.
"At the moment it's not really working for Tottenham and I think Daniel Levy enjoys buying the players as well and I think that's the problem; he's an owner and a fantastic shrewd businessman but when it comes to knowing footballers I don't think that's really his game.
"They were doing brilliantly a couple of years ago and now you look at clubs like Everton who are going past them quickly and that isn't Tim Sherwood's fault, that isn't Villas-Boas' fault, I think that's because of the players they are bringing in who aren't quite good enough to play for Tottenham.
"Because no one came out and said anything I always felt Tim was a dead man walking there."
Grandeur
Louis Van Gaal is the odds-on favourite to replace Sherwood while Frank De Boer and Southampton manager Mauricio Pochettino are both at 10-1, while former Swansea manager Michael Laudrup is at 16-1.
"It's irrelevant who they get next (manager), the most important thing is that they get the recruitment right and they start to bring in players that the manager wants because you can bring in anyone to work with that group of players that they've got and they would struggle to get the top four," said Redknapp.
"They've got ideas of grandeur there, that's the problem. They think they have a divine right to be in the top four and the players aren't good enough. They've done it twice in the last 20-odd years, so all of a sudden they start thinking this is going to happen every year.
"At the moment I look at them and I think they are miles off and until they get that right it doesn't matter what manager they bring in - because Daniel Levy will keep sacking every manager they bring in.
"Van Gaal, Pochettino - they're good managers; they're not silly. They'll look at this and say 'I've got a good reputation at the moment, I could go to Tottenham and really struggle,' and knowing that you don't get a great deal of support; that's not the sort of club that gives a manager a great deal of time and your reputation could be as high as kite and then go to Tottenham, lose a couple of games, get sacked and all of a sudden you're scrapping around for another job."
and theres more... Redflap junior has really let rip at Levy and Baldini :ross:....some truth in what he says, but plenty of sour grapes too :lol: .......... Former Spurs midfield Jamie Redknapp told Sky Sports News that the decision leaves Spurs in "disarray" and that it is astonishing that Sherwood could be axed while Director of Football Baldini - responsible for bringing in a number of players including £30million flop Erik Lamela after the £85m sale of Gareth Bale to Real Madrid - keeps his.
"If it is the case that Tim is going to be leaving, I think he has been [harshly treated]," said Sky Sports pundit Redknapp. "Tim is a friend of mine - I've known him for many, many years - and he is a genuine football person.
"He was put into a position that wasn't easy at the start - a lot of the players that came in at the start of the season just haven't been good enough; what tends to happen is that the managers take the brunt of this. They've gone through two managers already.
"Franco Baldini and Daniel Levy have to take some responsibility because which players have really come in after the sale of Gareth Bale and made an impact? Maybe you could say Christian Eriksen but apart from that there haven't been too many.
"That's what I find hard to understand. If Tim Sherwood does leave at the end of the season, how can a Director of Football like Franco Baldini keep his job? I find that amazing.
"The young managers get the sack and the people that bring the players in don't have any responsibility. I find that staggering in this day and age.
"The club looks like it is in disarray again. It's amazing because it is such a good club; the fans deserve a lot more than they are getting at the moment."
Staggering
Last week former Spurs manager Glenn Hoddle criticised the club for its transfer policy in the wake of the sale of Bale and Steven Caulker - splashing out on Lamela, Eriksen, Paulinho and Roberto Soldado.
Redknapp said that the hierarchy of the club now have some serious questions to answer.
"I don't know how many managers Daniel Levy has gone through in his time there but he does enjoy sacking managers and sometimes you've got to look at the people close to you, it's not always the managers that are making the mistakes. Sometimes the recruitment could have been better.
"It's been staggering really this summer the players that have come in and all the money that had been spent when you've sold a world-class footballer and brought in six or seven and not one of them has done their job. It's amazing that the people that did that aren't more responsible than the manager.
"As a manager you go in to a football club and you're reliant on people to bring in good players and it just hasn't been the case.
"A few years ago that was completely different and I think that's what the problem is; they're selling all their best players and trying to bring in different players that suit the chairman's wage structure. If you want to progress as a football club unfortunately who have to pay big wages now.
"When they had their opportunity last summer to really push on and see if they could get in to the top four they've missed around with it and had a go, sort of, and it hasn't worked at all.
"They sold Gareth Bale, who's probably the best left-sided player in the world and they've not even bought a left-sided player to replace him and that all boils down to bringing the right players in.
"If you're going to have a Director of Football he's got to know what he's doing, he's got to bring in the right players and if not he's got to say to the manager, 'ok, you do it'.
"At the moment it's not really working for Tottenham and I think Daniel Levy enjoys buying the players as well and I think that's the problem; he's an owner and a fantastic shrewd businessman but when it comes to knowing footballers I don't think that's really his game.
"They were doing brilliantly a couple of years ago and now you look at clubs like Everton who are going past them quickly and that isn't Tim Sherwood's fault, that isn't Villas-Boas' fault, I think that's because of the players they are bringing in who aren't quite good enough to play for Tottenham.
"Because no one came out and said anything I always felt Tim was a dead man walking there."
Grandeur
Louis Van Gaal is the odds-on favourite to replace Sherwood while Frank De Boer and Southampton manager Mauricio Pochettino are both at 10-1, while former Swansea manager Michael Laudrup is at 16-1.
"It's irrelevant who they get next (manager), the most important thing is that they get the recruitment right and they start to bring in players that the manager wants because you can bring in anyone to work with that group of players that they've got and they would struggle to get the top four," said Redknapp.
"They've got ideas of grandeur there, that's the problem. They think they have a divine right to be in the top four and the players aren't good enough. They've done it twice in the last 20-odd years, so all of a sudden they start thinking this is going to happen every year.
"At the moment I look at them and I think they are miles off and until they get that right it doesn't matter what manager they bring in - because Daniel Levy will keep sacking every manager they bring in.
"Van Gaal, Pochettino - they're good managers; they're not silly. They'll look at this and say 'I've got a good reputation at the moment, I could go to Tottenham and really struggle,' and knowing that you don't get a great deal of support; that's not the sort of club that gives a manager a great deal of time and your reputation could be as high as kite and then go to Tottenham, lose a couple of games, get sacked and all of a sudden you're scrapping around for another job."
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BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
He signs good players with talent and potential, but he's never given anyone a chance to mould them into a successful team. We also fall juuuuuuuust short of where we need to be. If we had our heads screwed on this season we could be over-taking Arsenal, as it looks to be them losing momentum at the crucial time this year.
I'm quite surprised how teflon coated Levy is to some people. 'Some managers just don't work out, no biggie'. Try every single one. But it's not like they are bad managers, Levy just treats them like ad sales people and expects them to hit the targets or they're gone. He's a fantastic businessman but I'd say he's only an average football man.
He signs good players with talent and potential, but he's never given anyone a chance to mould them into a successful team. We also fall juuuuuuuust short of where we need to be. If we had our heads screwed on this season we could be over-taking Arsenal, as it looks to be them losing momentum at the crucial time this year.
I'm quite surprised how teflon coated Levy is to some people. 'Some managers just don't work out, no biggie'. Try every single one. But it's not like they are bad managers, Levy just treats them like ad sales people and expects them to hit the targets or they're gone. He's a fantastic businessman but I'd say he's only an average football man.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Problem is, like most pundits, he doesn't seem to use his knowledge/experience for anything really thoughtful.
the biggest single damnation of how "follow the herd" UK pundits are was the appointment of Moyes, a guy completely unqualified for the job, yet not a single major publication truly questioned the appointment? why, because SAF recommended him? because he was british? at least one person should have done a how it could all go wrong piece.
The article re Levy and Baldini for me does not address what really went wrong at Spurs this season.
- Easy answer = we sold Bale, didn't replace him and the 7 players we bought weren't good enough, the managers took the blame (and that's about the levy of punditry we just read)
- Tougher answer = It hasn't gone all tits up, both AVB and TS have effectively been fired with the club 7th and still within a shot of 4th (long shot, but the math is there), we could still do a best ever points season
Would AVB's team with Ade playing have got 6 more points? would Sherwood's teams if he had picked Sandro/Eriksen/Soldado at every opportunity be better off now? should TS have figured out how not to play Naughton/Rose in same game? did both managers obsession with Dembele prove to be a mistake?
We lost Bale, but the truth is, anyone watching both AVB/TS's version of Spurs know the team is underperforming vs. this is the most we could get out of this group of players, and that for me is not Baldini/Levy.
Problem is, like most pundits, he doesn't seem to use his knowledge/experience for anything really thoughtful.
the biggest single damnation of how "follow the herd" UK pundits are was the appointment of Moyes, a guy completely unqualified for the job, yet not a single major publication truly questioned the appointment? why, because SAF recommended him? because he was british? at least one person should have done a how it could all go wrong piece.
The article re Levy and Baldini for me does not address what really went wrong at Spurs this season.
- Easy answer = we sold Bale, didn't replace him and the 7 players we bought weren't good enough, the managers took the blame (and that's about the levy of punditry we just read)
- Tougher answer = It hasn't gone all tits up, both AVB and TS have effectively been fired with the club 7th and still within a shot of 4th (long shot, but the math is there), we could still do a best ever points season
Would AVB's team with Ade playing have got 6 more points? would Sherwood's teams if he had picked Sandro/Eriksen/Soldado at every opportunity be better off now? should TS have figured out how not to play Naughton/Rose in same game? did both managers obsession with Dembele prove to be a mistake?
We lost Bale, but the truth is, anyone watching both AVB/TS's version of Spurs know the team is underperforming vs. this is the most we could get out of this group of players, and that for me is not Baldini/Levy.
Chachaboom
Stephane Dalmat
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Love a bit of drama me.
Anyways having endured seasons 91/92 to 04/05 it's easy to slip into and hard to get out.
Look at Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.
Love a bit of drama me.
Anyways having endured seasons 91/92 to 04/05 it's easy to slip into and hard to get out.
Look at Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
they are not but somehow most of the ones he picked for Spurs were not the right ones for the club. Hoddle was a great player but it was always a big risk bringing him back as manager. Santinis brand of football and his lack of english, the language barrier was a problem for Ramos, AVBs failure at chelski on and off the pitch should have set off the alarms in Levys head. Redknapp was absolutely the right appointment at the time and he did a fine job imo even though i never warmed to the man i can appreciate the football we produced under him. Jol was an Arnesen inspired choice, not much to do with Levy
they are not but somehow most of the ones he picked for Spurs were not the right ones for the club. Hoddle was a great player but it was always a big risk bringing him back as manager. Santinis brand of football and his lack of english, the language barrier was a problem for Ramos, AVBs failure at chelski on and off the pitch should have set off the alarms in Levys head. Redknapp was absolutely the right appointment at the time and he did a fine job imo even though i never warmed to the man i can appreciate the football we produced under him. Jol was an Arnesen inspired choice, not much to do with Levy
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
BMJ = European football for first time in decades
Ramos = Trophy
Harry = CL QF and best finishes
AVB = record points haul
TS = Fail
Only 1 of the last 5 could even be considered a true failure, and he was likely always an "interim" appointment.
Levy is a very good business man and football man (again, who's better?), he is struggling with how to make that final step of competing with clubs significantly better off than us (and there may be no answer), and he seems like a difficult basterd to keep a relationship with.
I don't know where people seem to equate tenure in modern football with success from, maybe Levy does the right thing and when things start to fade, replace ...
BMJ = European football for first time in decades
Ramos = Trophy
Harry = CL QF and best finishes
AVB = record points haul
TS = Fail
Only 1 of the last 5 could even be considered a true failure, and he was likely always an "interim" appointment.
Levy is a very good business man and football man (again, who's better?), he is struggling with how to make that final step of competing with clubs significantly better off than us (and there may be no answer), and he seems like a difficult basterd to keep a relationship with.
I don't know where people seem to equate tenure in modern football with success from, maybe Levy does the right thing and when things start to fade, replace ...
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
At some point you have to make a stand though. Take our current crop for example. A couple of established players plus potential. Due to Levy's policy with players you can never build a team full of players who have reached their potential at the same time.
No matter who our manager is, they can never build a team around their best players until Levy stops selling them. Until he does that, we won't reach the heights we need to.
Suarez is an example whatever way you want to look at it, no they didn't get offered 100million, but had they been offered it and allowed him to leave then would they be sitting top of the league right now? Not a chance.
You never benefit from selling your best players, no-matter the money offered.
At some point you have to make a stand though. Take our current crop for example. A couple of established players plus potential. Due to Levy's policy with players you can never build a team full of players who have reached their potential at the same time.
No matter who our manager is, they can never build a team around their best players until Levy stops selling them. Until he does that, we won't reach the heights we need to.
Suarez is an example whatever way you want to look at it, no they didn't get offered 100million, but had they been offered it and allowed him to leave then would they be sitting top of the league right now? Not a chance.
You never benefit from selling your best players, no-matter the money offered.
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
No you don't, and lets not pretend any different
But let's not pretend outside of maybe 2 clubs in the world, that you have any choice about it.
No you don't, and lets not pretend any different
But let's not pretend outside of maybe 2 clubs in the world, that you have any choice about it.
nelto
Andy Sinton
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Livermore/Clemence, Ardiles, Francis, Gross, Pleat, Graham, Hoddle, Santini, Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Sherwood, ?
Not to mention all the care takers.
No-one managing more than 3 years. Hope whoever gets it is given a bit of time. We need some stability. Doubt it will happen though.
Livermore/Clemence, Ardiles, Francis, Gross, Pleat, Graham, Hoddle, Santini, Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Sherwood, ?
Not to mention all the care takers.
No-one managing more than 3 years. Hope whoever gets it is given a bit of time. We need some stability. Doubt it will happen though.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Because maybe the 'fade' is just something that has to be ridden through to get to the good stuff? I feel like we bring a manager in, they usually do well (because they are backed, mostly because they are a reactionary appointment e.g. we need a tactics man! we need a motivator!) but then we hit the inevitable bad form and then Levy treats them with suspicion.
Maybe sticking with a guy after a fade and truly letting a manager get through to the next stage of the building process will be better than ripping up the progress, starting again, and assuming there is someone out there that is just going to wave a magic wand.
Because maybe the 'fade' is just something that has to be ridden through to get to the good stuff? I feel like we bring a manager in, they usually do well (because they are backed, mostly because they are a reactionary appointment e.g. we need a tactics man! we need a motivator!) but then we hit the inevitable bad form and then Levy treats them with suspicion.
Maybe sticking with a guy after a fade and truly letting a manager get through to the next stage of the building process will be better than ripping up the progress, starting again, and assuming there is someone out there that is just going to wave a magic wand.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
ok, do you think Sherwood should be given the next 3 years??
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Not particularly, but that's because he isn't qualified or experienced enough to take a job like Spurs on. Do I think AVB should have got it? Hell yes. Do I think Levy would have stood for a 7th place finish had he employed Brendan Rodgers? No I don't.
Not particularly, but that's because he isn't qualified or experienced enough to take a job like Spurs on. Do I think AVB should have got it? Hell yes. Do I think Levy would have stood for a 7th place finish had he employed Brendan Rodgers? No I don't.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
You do though. You have to. The club are perfectly within their rights to say, you're contracted here and you will stay here. At some point, we have to buck the trend and do that.
Its about managing risk. Liverpool weighed things up with Suarez. There was a risk that even after keeping him they wouldn't finish in CL places and he would be sold on for less than what they'd get for him right now. Their owners listened to the manager that they have put their complete trust in (again key) because he knows more about running a football team than they do. He told them that was a risk worth taking and has reaped the benefits.
The result being that if they win the league Suarez will very likely stay for at least the duration of his new contract. That position is sorted with a world class player and Rodgers can now move onto other addressing other weaknesses in the team (with better players now they are in the CL). Year upon year Liverpool will improve.
When you dig down deep enough you can see that this is because the owners at Liverpool have put their faith in Rodgers. Until Levy does that with anyone at all (and therefore stops selling their best players from under their nose) then we will never get to where everyone on here wants us to be.
You do though. You have to. The club are perfectly within their rights to say, you're contracted here and you will stay here. At some point, we have to buck the trend and do that.
Its about managing risk. Liverpool weighed things up with Suarez. There was a risk that even after keeping him they wouldn't finish in CL places and he would be sold on for less than what they'd get for him right now. Their owners listened to the manager that they have put their complete trust in (again key) because he knows more about running a football team than they do. He told them that was a risk worth taking and has reaped the benefits.
The result being that if they win the league Suarez will very likely stay for at least the duration of his new contract. That position is sorted with a world class player and Rodgers can now move onto other addressing other weaknesses in the team (with better players now they are in the CL). Year upon year Liverpool will improve.
When you dig down deep enough you can see that this is because the owners at Liverpool have put their faith in Rodgers. Until Levy does that with anyone at all (and therefore stops selling their best players from under their nose) then we will never get to where everyone on here wants us to be.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
should Levy have stuck with Ramos after the 2pts from 8??? or Jol after his poor start to the 2007-08 season??
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
BS mate, if the right offer came, Pool would have sold Suarez (and there is no guarantee he will stay this summer)
United sold Ronaldo .. that's all you need to know.
BS mate, if the right offer came, Pool would have sold Suarez (and there is no guarantee he will stay this summer)
United sold Ronaldo .. that's all you need to know.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Liverpool took a big risk in keeping Suarez after some of the trouble and embarrassment he has caused the club since he has been there. Credit must go to rodgers and the owners......if Suarez had done the same at Spurs and a club came knocking with 40 big ones then im sure Levy would have bitten their arm off and got rid
Liverpool took a big risk in keeping Suarez after some of the trouble and embarrassment he has caused the club since he has been there. Credit must go to rodgers and the owners......if Suarez had done the same at Spurs and a club came knocking with 40 big ones then im sure Levy would have bitten their arm off and got rid
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
40 mill for a player serving a 9 game ban for biting an opponent (something he also did at Ajax so obviously never learned his lesson) and also 40 mill for a player who served another big ban after being found guilty of racism??? The guy was literally a ticking timebomb. No matter how good he was with the ball, there was enough there for Liverpool to say thanks and goodbye Luis.
40 mill for a player serving a 9 game ban for biting an opponent (something he also did at Ajax so obviously never learned his lesson) and also 40 mill for a player who served another big ban after being found guilty of racism??? The guy was literally a ticking timebomb. No matter how good he was with the ball, there was enough there for Liverpool to say thanks and goodbye Luis.