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European Super League - Dead on arrival

balesleftboot said:
Bet if they were to survey the season ticker holders 90%+ would be against Derp This is not about the real match going fans at all.
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Ah, the tired defence, "real" supporters

Said it before, the same supporters who
- ceaselessly complain about ticket prices, merchandising, sponsor logo colours, manager, call the chairman a skint, etc?
- Same ones who won't buy or bitch endlessly re Sky/BT/Prime packages

Yes, I'll take that offer over
- A nice Korean family who fly half way across the world, will buy a hospitality package at 3X the price, spend 3 hours in stadium buying food, drinks and merchandise and leave happy, post great stuff on social media about the club
- Buy every streaming option and get up at 2am to watch games

Please explain which one you think the club (any club) wants?
 
Raziel said:
Truth, the reason everyone is bricking their pants is they know this is going to work.
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It will work in the way that they want it to work. Worldwide fans of the franchise paying for tv deals to see the best players. But it's nothing to do with what being part of a fan base is really about, the community.
 
Raziel said:
Ah, the tired defence, "real" supporters

Said it before, the same supporters who
- ceaselessly complain about ticket prices, merchandising, sponsor logo colours, manager, call the chairman a skint, etc?
- Same ones who won't buy or bitch endlessly re Sky/BT/Prime packages

Yes, I'll take that offer over
- A nice Korean family who fly half way across the world, will buy a hospitality package at 3X the price, spend 3 hours in stadium buying food, drinks and merchandise and leave happy, post great stuff on social media about the club
- Buy every streaming option and get up at 2am to watch games

Please explain which one you think the club (any club) wants?
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Do you go to games, and if so have you enjoyed the past year of football with zero atmosphere? thats what it will be like all the time with the kind of fans we would attract to the ESL. You simply cannot replicate the atmoshere generated by people with genuine love for the club.
 
Baleforce said:
Technically different, but is it realistically different?
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Yes. Due to the sporting side. You can fail in the new structure and be safe.
Leeds, Portsmouth, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham, Emirates Marketing Project - all big clubs that have been relegated because they screwed up. That's how sports works. And the product being sold is still sport - if it's not anymore, fine. Quit the competitive league structure and play a series of exhibition matches. But don't pretend it's still competition; it's advertising at that point.
 
billyiddo said:
They should have come up with a more comprehensive plan that entailed a full alternative to Uefa and their club tournaments, that still offered tournaments with qualification via domestic league football - if you take Uefa out of the picture that in itself must make the financial pie bigger as they aren't taking their slice of it, which i assume is pretty hefty.

Although i don't know how you marry that up with the desire for the founder clubs to have their closed shop
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Could put in a similar system to the Argentinian league, relegation is determined by the average over the last three years or something, you are not completely protected but one bad year doesn't hurt.

But, yes, I agree, the closed shop is the biggest carrot.
 
monkeybarry said:
Yes. Due to the sporting side. You can fail in the new structure and be safe.
Leeds, Portsmouth, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham, Emirates Marketing Project - all big clubs that have been relegated because they screwed up. That's how sports works. And the product being sold is still sport - if it's not anymore, fine. Quit the competitive league structure and play a series of exhibition matches. But don't pretend it's still competition; it's advertising at that point.
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Does that mean NFL isn't sport?
 
balesleftboot said:
It will work in the way that they want it to work. Worldwide fans of the franchise paying for tv deals to see the best players. But it's nothing to do with what being part of a fan base is really about, the community.
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I disagree mate, to me local fans (and I have been both) are the worst, entitled, complaining fudges ..

Look at this board, club had to borrow £175M to stay operational, and all the real supporters couldn't wait to brick on Levy for using a government plan (furlough) to cover expenses (that Spurs taxes pay for btw). did anyone ever, the fudging trust, anyone say "hey, if you can, buy one more kit this year to help the club through the moment"? nope, just more brick about Levy being a skint basterd who didn't buy Dias as CB

To your other question, yes, I go to games and yes the atmosphere changes but it's best for the big games, and this is what you will get, more big games.
 
Raziel said:
why?

- For decades the FA, FIFA, UEFA and local governments have not addressed these issues

Why the expectation of 12 clubs who's biggest crime is "hey we are going to make our own business model" to fix it?

- Here's the thing no one is proposing, you really don't like ESL? instead of threatening them, trying to expel them, let the fans truly vote and not watch/go see it.

Truth, the reason everyone is bricking their pants is they know this is going to work.
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There's no argument from me that the FA Fifa etc have facilitated what we are seeing now through years of selling the game out to the highest bidder - they should be as much, if not more, the focus of people's ire as the 12 clubs themselves.

Of course it's going to work if allowed to happen as there's an endless supply of casual supporters across the planet who will tune in regardless if the best players are playing in the SL - and as we all know where the money goes the talent follows.
 
AdamB said:
Does that mean NFL isn't sport?
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Primarily no. It's a marketing excercise first and foremost. Franchises fold or move due to financial viability, not sporting.

However everything needs a top and a bottom - the NFL regular season are essentially group stages; the equivalent of relegation (ie punishment for underperformance) is not reaching the play offs.
"Making the playoffs" is the big goal and of far more interest than winning the conference.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The reason NFL had an element of commotion is the draft system
One feeder model for signing players
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It's not the only way to get players though, many are undrafted free agents, some come from other sports or countries

the draft is a balance to stop the richest teams signing all of the talent from the college game, nothing more, without it the players would still end up in the NFL
 
Credit to Bayern Munich, a proper club who want nothing to do with this. If only it was like Germany here, where the fans have power.

''Karl-Heinz Rummenigge said: "FC Bayern has not been involved in the plans for creating a Super League. We are convinced that the current structure in football guarantees a reliable foundation. FC Bayern welcomes the reforms of the Champions League because we believe they are the right step to take for the development of European football. The modified group stage will contribute to an increase in excitement and the emotional experience in the competition."
 
Bayern already have their protected status domestically I guess, it would be interesting to hear the views of another German club.
 
Baleforce said:
It's not the only way to get players though, many are undrafted free agents, some come from other sports or countries

the draft is a balance to stop the richest teams signing all of the talent from the college game, nothing more, without it the players would still end up in the NFL
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It also rewards failure by the sequencing.
From a sporting perspective I quite like it - but it is very US centric and goes way outside of just the NFL, so I'm not sure it's workable in football. Although I'd love to see some discussion around making a better and more fair path for young talent.
 
Baleforce said:
Bayern already have their protected status domestically I guess, it would be interesting to hear the views of another German club.
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Exactly

- Bayern effectively has the risk protection, never at risk of relegation, when last did they not qualify for CL?
- Add to which, they are fan owned, so they would have had to consult the fans (answer would have been no)

It's a condescending statement to the hungry from a person in a free grocery.

Re the if it was only so here, Spurs was on the stock market for years, why didn't fans buy it? always want somebody else to do things for you, then complain when it isn't how you want it to be.
 
thfcsteff said:
There is SO MUCH to come with all of Derp Lots of posturing and brinksmanship. The thing that gets me are the "soul of football gone" voices. Realistically, that soul was dying for decades. Look at the Prem. Look around.

I think this is ugly and vulgar, but much in today's society is.

The main question becomes will you stop supporting/watching THFC? I wish my principles were strong enough to overcome my addiction. They weren't in '92 and they won't be now. Sad but true.
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You make some good points mate you really do, will i give up my love of Spurs over this? no it will never happen ( as much as i wished it could some times). BUT having spoken to a lot of lads who i have traveled with over the years and are ALL S/T holders they are seriously thinking of giving those tickets up if this does happen. Its a disgrace and its a nail in the coffin for a a lot of them.
 
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