What Would You Do? - Summer Ins and Out

[indianspur]

i think Kane and Pritchard are 2 bright British hopes for us, and they didnt cost us a penny......after that, Akinidyani and Winks seem to be highly thought of too.. I agree with Gutter, nurturing our own production line of British talent is much better than spending gazillions on brits from other clubs

 

[braineclipse]

Zeki Fryers - 15 months ago. Before that probably Walker and Naughton.

To be honest, things have moved on. British players are so badly coached (cf abroad) and so over-inflated price-wise, that you can't buy them anymore.

What you have to do is develop your own. Soton have been leading the way with this. But don't forget that while we were busy buying Dawson, Lennon, Huddlestone and co., we weren't producing any of our own players. However since then we've produced Townsend, Caulker and Livermore - our first homegrown EPL calibre players since the King-Carr-Clemence-Young-Kelly generation.

I'd rather we just kept nurturing a production line of talent more of the ilk of Carroll, Pritchard, Coulthirst, Fredericks and Ceballos, than spend £55m on Lallana and Shaw.

In general for us to sign English players we have to look at those not quite as far along in their development as Shaw and Lallana or players that are perhaps past their best or have "failed" at a bigger club.

For the first category we might consider players like perhaps Ward-Prowse or more likely Will Hughes type players.

For the second category we might consider players like Carrick, Milner or Barry.

The actual cost of a player is so dependent on the contract situation, the wishes of the player and the situation at the selling club that even though it's true that the price for British players is inflated there might still be some very good deals to be made.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

i think Kane and Pritchard are 2 bright British hopes for us, and they didnt cost us a penny......after that, Akinidyani and Winks seem to be highly thought of too.. I agree with Gutter, nurturing our own production line of British talent is much better than spending gazillions on brits from other clubs

I agree with this to a degree but I would look to buy Alli from MK Dons and Gomez from Charlton the potential of both is frightening.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Zeki Fryers - 15 months ago. Before that probably Walker and Naughton.

To be honest, things have moved on. British players are so badly coached (cf abroad) and so over-inflated price-wise, that you can't buy them anymore.

What you have to do is develop your own. Soton have been leading the way with this. But don't forget that while we were busy buying Dawson, Lennon, Huddlestone and co., we weren't producing any of our own players. However since then we've produced Townsend, Caulker and Livermore - our first homegrown EPL calibre players since the King-Carr-Clemence-Young-Kelly generation.

I'd rather we just kept nurturing a production line of talent more of the ilk of Carroll, Pritchard, Coulthirst, Fredericks and Ceballos, than spend £55m on Lallana and Shaw.

Yeah we should not fall into the trap of spending big money of English players when we can produce similar, but we should also be open to the idea of buying good value English players. Berhanio(spelling) at West Brom if available for about 7m would be a good deal.

On top of that the excellent Gomez at Charlton.

 

[indianspur]

I agree with this to a degree but I would look to buy Alli from MK Dons and Gomez from Charlton the potential of both is frightening.

yep, cheaper young brit talent from the lower leagues is fine. I was talking of avoiding the big 10-15 mill plus type of signings. But i guess as Brain said, each transfer has to be assessed on its own merits

 

[braineclipse]

Yeah we should not fall into the trap of spending big money of English players when we can produce similar, but we should also be open to the idea of buying good value English players. Berhanio(spelling) at West Brom if available for about 7m would be a good deal.

On top of that the excellent Gomez at Charlton.

How much have you seen of Gomez?

Watched a bit of an England u17 game to have a look at Onomah the other day, Gomez was one of the standout players for me.

 

[Finney Is Back]

In terms of players straight into the first team I'm not sure we require a huge influx. I would say a new centre half to replace/compete with Dawson, a new left back, a creative central midfield playmaker and a player to compete with Adebayor. With us being able to introduce these players gradually as opposed to bring them all in straight away like we tried to do last season. Other than that I thnk it's just about getting in some options to replace any outgoing squad players.

With that in mind my ins would be along the lines of.

Ins
GK. Joe Lewis. Was talked about as the future England keeper when at Peterborough but then got dropped when he decided not to sign a new deal or agree to a transfer so that he
could go on a freebie. Now at Cardiff behind Marshall in the pecking order. Would be a good long term number 2 to play in Europa games, early cup games etc and nurture along to allow Lloris to eventually be sold. £3M
GK. Schwarzer. Experienced backup keeper to play in the premiership if LLoris gets injured. £0
CH. Lescott. Perfect free signing for us. Experienced, fit and still a good player. £0
LB. Blind. Our left back for many years to come. Can also play midfield role. £10M
RB. Sam Byram. 20 year old right back at Leeds who I think will be a full England player within a few years time. Has the lot. Perfect understudy and eventual successor to Walker. £5M
CF. Lukaku. Will be expesnive but is the right age and the right quality. If Chelsea won't sell him to us or he goes elsewhere, then we go after Bony. £25M
CF. Batshuayi. One for the future and worth a punt. Could look to give him a good loan to lower level Premiership club. Allows Adebayor to be sold/released a year or two later. £7M
AM. Diego. His contract with Wolfsburg is up when he completes his loan at Athletico. Rumoured to be looking for a good pay cheque. Brilliant attacking midfield creator who I think would link up well with Lamela and Ericksen. £0
AM. Tom Ince. I think he will turn into a very, very good footballer. Either playing as an attacking midfielder in a withdrawn number 10 role or out as a wide player but with license to come inside. £0
Total - £50M. With us being able to introduce these players gradually (other than the left back who needs to go straight in).

On top of this I also wouldn't mind us trying to bring in a few of the young talented British players at lower league clubs such as Diego Poyet and Joe Gomez at Charlton and then look to loan them back there for further experience while protecting our 'home grown' quota in years to come.

Outs
GK. Gomes - released. £0
GK. Friedel - released. £0
CH. Kaboul - No point in having a central defender who is only fit about 30% of the time). We might get 4 or 5 million for him with a year left on his contract. £4M
LB. Ekotto - doesn't seem the player he once was. We could probably command a small fee for him. £2M
RB. Naughton - Not a bad reserve right back, but doesn't look like he'll ever be top class and I think he'll want first team football somewhere so we should replace him with a slightly younger player with more potential and who is prepared to bide his time. £6M
CM. Livermore - decent player but we are over stocked with central midfielders so might as well free up funds. Let Hull make his move permanent. £7M
CM. Holtby - as above with Livermore, let's use the funds elsewhere. £8M
AM. Siggurdsen - as above. Just don't feel he is quite good enough for where we want to be. £7M
AM. Lennon - has done well at the club and was a great signing for us overall. In a way I would be sorry to see him go, but I don't think he'll fit the preferred shape of any of our potential new managers. £10M
CF. Soldado - I don't think we can afford to keep him for another season in case it again doesn't happen for him and we then have a 30 year old player that we've paid £26 million for with no chance of getting it back. If we can somehow get about 16 to 18 million quid back then let's cut our losses and put it towards the type of player that we need. £16M
Total - £60M

The £10 million difference should allow for agents fees and pay offs to the players we sell who haven't requested a transfer. Additionally a majority of the players coming in are young and the difference in wages for the incoming and outgoing players is likely to be pretty neutral.

It seems like a lot of ins and outs but many of the outs are already loaned to another club and the others are all reserve players as opposed to first choice.

Leaves us something like:

------------------------------Lloris/Schwartzer
Walker/Byram-----Lescott/Dawson-------Vertonghen/Chiriches-----Blind/Rose
--------------Sandro/Capoue---------------------Dembele/Bentelab
----Lamela/Ince---------------Paulinho/Diego----------Eriksen/Townsend
------------------------------Lukaku/Adebayor

With the likes of the Lewis, Carroll, Pritchard, Fredericks, Kane, Batshuayi, Fryers, all part of the squad and getting Europa/Carling Cup/FA Cup games depending on the opposition.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

How much have you seen of Gomez?

Watched a bit of an England u17 game to have a look at Onomah the other day, Gomez was one of the standout players for me.

I have watched youth england matches but I am also going on coaching reports from the Charlton academy and a Charlton fan who goes to youth and reserve games. As you say he stand outs as a player and I know your not meant to say the is no dead cert but honestly if he does not get injured I can not see him not playing for England.

Reminds me so much of Rio Ferdinand, thing is he is gettable Charlton have money troubles, their new owner only wants to use the club to highlight players to sell. We could sign him and loan him back easily. Leave it two years and his value will have risen like Lee Hughes.

 

[Superhudd]

---------------------------Lloris---------------------------

Walker-------------Richards-------Vertonghen--------Davies

----------------------Sandro---Dembele------------------

----------------------------Rakitic-----------------------

-----Lamela-------------------------------------Eriksen---

---------------------------Lukaku------------------------

Absolutley pointless having a human statue with that creativity behind him

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I agree with this to a degree but I would look to buy Alli from MK Dons and Gomez from Charlton the potential of both is frightening.

Yeah we should not fall into the trap of spending big money of English players when we can produce similar, but we should also be open to the idea of buying good value English players. Berhanio(spelling) at West Brom if available for about 7m would be a good deal.

On top of that the excellent Gomez at Charlton.

Whilst I agree that it would great to see young, homegrown talent excel at Spurs, we do have a problem with that - the size of our club.

To push on to the top 4 quickly we pretty much need all our signings to be already be better than what we have and to hit the ground running. We can't afford to develop a player in the first 11 over 3-4 years until he starts to fulfil his potential like clubs where the expectation is lower such as Villa, Saints and at a push, Everton.

Even when we hit world-class gold like Bale, it took 2 or 3 seasons for him to fully establish himself (admittedly injuries notwithstanding).

This means we'd either have to loan the player out, year on year - which may pay dividends as shown to an extent with Townsend and Kane - or we keep them in the first team squad which of course would mean very limited playing time therefore risking stunting their development as they simply won't get the minutes.

So we're kind of in a no man's land: too big with too many immediate demands to nuture young talent in the first team; too small to be able to attract the tier one youngsters.

That said, personally I'd rather see the likes of Bentaleb and Carroll given a go over Capoue, for example. One, for the money it saves, and two, if we don't, it kind of scuppers the whole youth set up if we have a broadly comparable type of player in our own ranks but to choose a relatively expensive import - even more so when it's generally for a squad place.

 

[AdamB]

In terms of players straight into the first team I'm not sure we require a huge influx. I would say a new centre half to replace/compete with Dawson, a new left back, a creative central midfield playmaker and a player to compete with Adebayor. With us being able to introduce these players gradually as opposed to bring them all in straight away like we tried to do last season. Other than that I thnk it's just about getting in some options to replace any outgoing squad players.

With that in mind my ins would be along the lines of.

Ins
GK. Joe Lewis. Was talked about as the future England keeper when at Peterborough but then got dropped when he decided not to sign a new deal or agree to a transfer so that he
could go on a freebie. Now at Cardiff behind Marshall in the pecking order. Would be a good long term number 2 to play in Europa games, early cup games etc and nurture along to allow Lloris to eventually be sold. £3M
GK. Schwarzer. Experienced backup keeper to play in the premiership if LLoris gets injured. £0
CH. Lescott. Perfect free signing for us. Experienced, fit and still a good player. £0
LB. Blind. Our left back for many years to come. Can also play midfield role. £10M
RB. Sam Byram. 20 year old right back at Leeds who I think will be a full England player within a few years time. Has the lot. Perfect understudy and eventual successor to Walker. £5M
CF. Lukaku. Will be expesnive but is the right age and the right quality. If Chelsea won't sell him to us or he goes elsewhere, then we go after Bony. £25M
CF. Batshuayi. One for the future and worth a punt. Could look to give him a good loan to lower level Premiership club. Allows Adebayor to be sold/released a year or two later. £7M
AM. Diego. His contract with Wolfsburg is up when he completes his loan at Athletico. Rumoured to be looking for a good pay cheque. Brilliant attacking midfield creator who I think would link up well with Lamela and Ericksen. £0
AM. Tom Ince. I think he will turn into a very, very good footballer. Either playing as an attacking midfielder in a withdrawn number 10 role or out as a wide player but with license to come inside. £0
Total - £50M. With us being able to introduce these players gradually (other than the left back who needs to go straight in).

On top of this I also wouldn't mind us trying to bring in a few of the young talented British players at lower league clubs such as Diego Poyet and Joe Gomez at Charlton and then look to loan them back there for further experience while protecting our 'home grown' quota in years to come.

Outs
GK. Gomes - released. £0
GK. Friedel - released. £0
CH. Kaboul - No point in having a central defender who is only fit about 30% of the time). We might get 4 or 5 million for him with a year left on his contract. £4M
LB. Ekotto - doesn't seem the player he once was. We could probably command a small fee for him. £2M
RB. Naughton - Not a bad reserve right back, but doesn't look like he'll ever be top class and I think he'll want first team football somewhere so we should replace him with a slightly younger player with more potential and who is prepared to bide his time. £6M
CM. Livermore - decent player but we are over stocked with central midfielders so might as well free up funds. Let Hull make his move permanent. £7M
CM. Holtby - as above with Livermore, let's use the funds elsewhere. £8M
AM. Siggurdsen - as above. Just don't feel he is quite good enough for where we want to be. £7M
AM. Lennon - has done well at the club and was a great signing for us overall. In a way I would be sorry to see him go, but I don't think he'll fit the preferred shape of any of our potential new managers. £10M
CF. Soldado - I don't think we can afford to keep him for another season in case it again doesn't happen for him and we then have a 30 year old player that we've paid £26 million for with no chance of getting it back. If we can somehow get about 16 to 18 million quid back then let's cut our losses and put it towards the type of player that we need. £16M
Total - £60M

The £10 million difference should allow for agents fees and pay offs to the players we sell who haven't requested a transfer. Additionally a majority of the players coming in are young and the difference in wages for the incoming and outgoing players is likely to be pretty neutral.

It seems like a lot of ins and outs but many of the outs are already loaned to another club and the others are all reserve players as opposed to first choice.

Leaves us something like:

------------------------------Lloris/Schwartzer
Walker/Byram-----Lescott/Dawson-------Vertonghen/Chiriches-----Blind/Rose
--------------Sandro/Capoue---------------------Dembele/Bentelab
----Lamela/Ince---------------Paulinho/Diego----------Eriksen/Townsend
------------------------------Lukaku/Adebayor

With the likes of the Lewis, Carroll, Pritchard, Fredericks, Kane, Batshuayi, Fryers, all part of the squad and getting Europa/Carling Cup/FA Cup games depending on the opposition.

Not a chance that we'll do that much business this summer. WE need a stable summer, not another summer with massive ins and outs

 

[braineclipse]

I have watched youth england matches but I am also going on coaching reports from the Charlton academy and a Charlton fan who goes to youth and reserve games. As you say he stand outs as a player and I know your not meant to say the is no dead cert but honestly if he does not get injured I can not see him not playing for England.

Reminds me so much of Rio Ferdinand, thing is he is gettable Charlton have money troubles, their new owner only wants to use the club to highlight players to sell. We could sign him and loan him back easily. Leave it two years and his value will have risen like Lee Hughes.

Cheers for the info JGL.

Exactly the kind of British/English player we should be going for by the sounds of things.

Whilst I agree that it would great to see young, homegrown talent excel at Spurs, we do have a problem with that - the size of our club.

To push on to the top 4 quickly we pretty much need all our signings to be already be better than what we have and to hit the ground running. We can't afford to develop a player in the first 11 over 3-4 years until he starts to fulfil his potential like clubs where the expectation is lower such as Villa, Saints and at a push, Everton.

Even when we hit world-class gold like Bale, it took 2 or 3 seasons for him to fully establish himself (admittedly injuries notwithstanding).

This means we'd either have to loan the player out, year on year - which may pay dividends as shown to an extent with Townsend and Kane - or we keep them in the first team squad which of course would mean very limited playing time therefore risking stunting their development as they simply won't get the minutes.

So we're kind of in a no man's land: too big with too many immediate demands to nuture young talent in the first team; too small to be able to attract the tier one youngsters.

That said, personally I'd rather see the likes of Bentaleb and Carroll given a go over Capoue, for example. One, for the money it saves, and two, if we don't, it kind of scuppers the whole youth set up if we have a broadly comparable type of player in our own ranks but to choose a relatively expensive import - even more so when it's generally for a squad place.

What do you mean by tier one youngsters?

In hindsight can't it be said that Bale was a tier one youngster for example? Or are you talking about those that have already shown themselves ready for PL action close to the top like Barkley and Shaw?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not a chance that we'll do that much business this summer. WE need a stable summer, not another summer with massive ins and outs

It's only 2 to 3 obvious first team players in, along with squad options.

I think it's essential we get a more suitable CF to Soldado and a new left back. We cannot go into next season relying only on Adebayor and Rose in those positions.

I also think we look light in the central attacking midfield playmaker department. Eriksen can play there but looks as though he does better work when given a free role starting on the left.

Swapping Sicknote Kaboul for Lescott beefs up the central defensive cover. Most of the rest are really just improving the balance of the squad.

The only contentious one is perhaps Lennon who doesn't really fit a non 442 / 4411 formation (and I assume that our 2 leading new manager candidates both play a 4231/433 type formation). In fact I'd have no problem selling Lennon and not bringing in any wide player, I just think that Tom Ince on a free represents good value as his potential is high.

 

[nattenskonge]

Not a chance that we'll do that much business this summer. WE need a stable summer, not another summer with massive ins and outs

With a new manager in early, we are going to change things up again!
You say with a DOF we dont have to change the team when we change the manager, but of course the manager whants to give the team what he thinks it needs, and I dont think our DOF was that happy with what he had time ond did last summer!

Spurs need to set theyre goal for the seasons to come... Are we going to fight with the top or the rest?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: What Would You Do? - Summer Ins and Outs

Ok. You are Baldini. What are your 1) ins, 2) outs and 3) final 22?

There are two rules - i) no net spend (using Transfermarkt's independent valuations, excluding Kaboul, Friedel and Gomes who are out of contract and therefore have no value), ii) only 17 foreign players above 21yo in your final 22.


Ins

Daley Blind £5.3m
Evgen Konoplyanka £15m
Jordy Claise £6.2m
Bruno Martins Indi £5.3m
Total = £31.8m


Outs

Dembele £17.5m
Siggy £7m
Lennon £13m
Livermore £2.2m
Rose £5.3m
BAE £4.4m
Kaboul + Gomes free
Total = £49.4m


Squad

--------------------Lloris
-------------------(Friedel)

--Walker------BMI---Vertonghen---Blind
(Naughton)--(Dawson)-(Chiriches)--(Fryers)

--------Claise------Sandro-----Eriksen
------(Paulinho)---(Capoue)----(Holtby)

------Lamela--------Soldado------Konoplyanka
-----(Townsend)---(Adebayor)-----(Chadli)


17 foreign, 5 English.
The spare £17.6m put aside for Jan/next summer

I want to change mine, as it was written with a Dutch manager (LvG or Fdb) in mind. My Poch version is:


Ins

Ricardo Rodriguez £17.6m
Evgen Konoplyanka £15m
Morgan Schneiderlin £7.5m
Dejan Lovren £10.6m
Total = £50.7m


Outs

Dembele £17.5m
Siggy £7m
Lennon £13m
Livermore £2.2m
Rose £5.3m
BAE £4.4m
Kaboul + Gomes free
Total = £49.4m


Squad

--------------------Lloris
-------------------(Friedel)

--Walker------Lovren--Vertonghen---Rodriguez
(Naughton)--(Dawson)-(Chiriches)--(Fryers)

---Schneiderlin----Sandro-----Eriksen
------(Paulinho)---(Capoue)----(Holtby)

------Lamela--------Soldado------Konoplyanka
-----(Townsend)---(Adebayor)-----(Chadli)


17 foreign, 5 English

 

[Superhudd]

whats with the point 6 of a million. Why can't people just put solid rounder numbers like 11 or 18 lol

 

[jurgen lineker]

Should be in for this guy:

-------
Several Premier League clubs chasing Ever Banega.

"We have had immense interest in the Argentinian international," Hope told Sky Sports. "I can confirm I am personally speaking to two top clubs who have expressed real intent in capturing the player."

"He is a top quality player and he is still only 25 and I believe he would be a major success in the Premier League."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...eral-premier-league-clubs-chasing-ever-banega
------

Just the type of player we need.

 

[Kingdawson]

Should be in for this guy:

-------
Several Premier League clubs chasing Ever Banega.

"We have had immense interest in the Argentinian international," Hope told Sky Sports. "I can confirm I am personally speaking to two top clubs who have expressed real intent in capturing the player."

"He is a top quality player and he is still only 25 and I believe he would be a major success in the Premier League."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...eral-premier-league-clubs-chasing-ever-banega
------

Just the type of player we need.

He's exceptionally good on his day. He also has a weirdo personality but his football ability makes up for it imo.

 

[NWND]

Southampton tried (and failed) to sign Banega last summer under Pochettino. Maybe we'd try and get him to fill his 'Schneiderlin' role in the team?

 

[camspur]

Ins:

New LB
New CB

Outs:

Kaboul
Gomes
Livermore
BAE

I don't see a need for a massive overhaul just quality coming in and natural wastage leaving.