• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Poch did not walk out on us we dumped him. I think it is petty and small minded to dump someone and then whinge like a little bitch because they then move on to our rivals even though they had been waiting around, hoping we would come back to them and give them a second chance.

I'm not sure who you were replying to, but for what it's worth - Poch took us as far as he could, at the time we were in as a club. Before Ange was appointed I was firmly in the Poch #2 camp, but honestly I see now that our paths have split, likely for good.

Whether it's the right or wrong thing to do, managing Chelsea or Arsenal turns a part of the fan base against him. This means were he to come back, the first thing we would see would be a section of the base turning on him the moment something wasn't perfect.

Poch was as important to the development of this club as Martin Jol, and was treated just the same - but unless something changes soon, he is going to be a "not quite" manager.
 
Poch was as important to the development of this club as Martin Jol, and was treated just the same - but unless something changes soon, he is going to be a "not quite" manager.

I'd go with that tbh, but can he not change anything until after we play them?
 
We have played 11…
Only the PL matters.

Another nice quote from Ange:
Asked why he seems so relaxed during his team's matches the Spurs boss said: "Well, there's nothing I can do, I certainly can't run on there.

"I think I've used the analogy before, we prep them for their exam on the weekend, but we don't know what the questions are going to be. They've got to work them out themselves."
 

I think, in fairness to Neville, he’s talking about the ownership model and it’s always seemed, for better or worse, that Levy is the man and he has a firm grasp of what’s going on and is invested in it. Our infrastructure is also light years ahead of Man U in terms of facilities. At United, it’s a brickshow because the owners don’t give much of a fudge. That’s the narrative he’s pushing.

He’s still wrong because while Levy has been a constant, his strategy on the football side has changed many times including this summer.

Neville’s become blinded by his dislike of the Glazers because every single United discussion with him comes back to that topic which is masking the failures of others.
 
I think, in fairness to Neville, he’s talking about the ownership model and it’s always seemed, for better or worse, that Levy is the man and he has a firm grasp of what’s going on and is invested in it. Our infrastructure is also light years ahead of Man U in terms of facilities. At United, it’s a brickshow because the owners don’t give much of a fudge. That’s the narrative he’s pushing.

He’s still wrong because while Levy has been a constant, his strategy on the football side has changed many times including this summer.

Neville’s become blinded by his dislike of the Glazers because every single United discussion with him comes back to that topic which is masking the failures of others.

Good post and an interesting take on what on the surface is a rather ridiculous comment from Levy.

I think with Levy there is at least always the wish for and working towards a functional structure. Even though at times, like this summer, we've been quite some way off having that structure in place.

Interesting hypothetical. If Ange had come in at United would his qualities have led to success there as it has (so far) here. Or is there something about our structure that is good enough to make it possible for him to do his thing and succeed there while he may not have at United?
 
Yes but prime Dele vs Richi is a very short discussion and my comment was a speculative query about whether Ange could revive Dele's career.
I think the answer has to be no. It's not worth the risk in terms of time and opportunity cost to bring in a player like Dele who is not playing to any degree of form and hasn't now for many years. It makes a lot more sense to find a younger and in form player who can provide what Dele brought at the time.

Yes he was good for us but many years. As Tottenham fans we need to let go of this small club mentality where hark back to bygone times with ex players and coaches.

The only way is forward and forward doesn't not involve hiring previously failed components.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
 
Good post and an interesting take on what on the surface is a rather ridiculous comment from Levy.

I think with Levy there is at least always the wish for and working towards a functional structure. Even though at times, like this summer, we've been quite some way off having that structure in place.

Interesting hypothetical. If Ange had come in at United would his qualities have led to success there as it has (so far) here. Or is there something about our structure that is good enough to make it possible for him to do his thing and succeed there while he may not have at United?
Good question, it seems United buy players the managers request and Ange seemed to have the clarity about who he wanted and not reputational signings but is part of our success that Paratici had targets lined up that fitted his Ange's MO?

Udogie was a done deal and biss and sarr not rated by Conte. All 3 of those improve United instantly imo, as would vdv and vicario for a lot less than the they have spent on the likes of Mount, Onana, Antony, Casemiro etc.

I do think he would still have had an impact tbh, United may have a few more bad eggs to move on but also a bigger budget to replace them. The fans seem pretty patient and appreciate good football.
 
Good question, it seems United buy players the managers request and Ange seemed to have the clarity about who he wanted and not reputational signings but is part of our success that Paratici had targets lined up that fitted his Ange's MO?

Udogie was a done deal and biss and sarr not rated by Conte. All 3 of those improve United instantly imo, as would vdv and vicario for a lot less than the they have spent on the likes of Mount, Onana, Antony, Casemiro etc.

I do think he would still have had an impact tbh, United may have a few more bad eggs to move on but also a bigger budget to replace them. The fans seem pretty patient and appreciate good football.

Did you look at United's lineup Sunday?

Onana (jury out), Dalot (player with United since 2018, never been good enough), Maguire (United's Dier), Evan's (a 35 year old CB from a relegated Leicester side), Lindelof as LB (another player over 6+ years that isn't good enough), Eriksen (good player 4 years ago), Amrabat (unproven), McTominay (United's Winks/Skipp), Rashford (has reverted to mean this season) and Hojlund (expensive player with less than 20 top level goals to his name)

How the fudge do you get to this with one of the most expensive squads in the PL?

Spurs spent a fraction, managed to shift/change majority of first team while shifting a team from very 5atb, WB style to a 4-3-3 while losing the best English Striker ever.
 
Did you look at United's lineup Sunday?

Onana (jury out), Dalot (player with United since 2018, never been good enough), Maguire (United's Dier), Evan's (a 35 year old CB from a relegated Leicester side), Lindelof as LB (another player over 6+ years that isn't good enough), Eriksen (good player 4 years ago), Amrabat (unproven), McTominay (United's Winks/Skipp), Rashford (has reverted to mean this season) and Hojlund (expensive player with less than 20 top level goals to his name)

How the fudge do you get to this with one of the most expensive squads in the PL?

Spurs spent a fraction, managed to shift/change majority of first team while shifting a team from very 5atb, WB style to a 4-3-3 while losing the best English Striker ever.

What an insult to our Eric
 
Did you look at United's lineup Sunday?

Onana (jury out), Dalot (player with United since 2018, never been good enough), Maguire (United's Dier), Evan's (a 35 year old CB from a relegated Leicester side), Lindelof as LB (another player over 6+ years that isn't good enough), Eriksen (good player 4 years ago), Amrabat (unproven), McTominay (United's Winks/Skipp), Rashford (has reverted to mean this season) and Hojlund (expensive player with less than 20 top level goals to his name)

How the fudge do you get to this with one of the most expensive squads in the PL?

Spurs spent a fraction, managed to shift/change majority of first team while shifting a team from very 5atb, WB style to a 4-3-3 while losing the best English Striker ever.
I did and the point I was making is if Ange was in charge I doubt he would have green lit the most recent signings and strengthened the key areas without breaking the bank instead.

I also looked at their wage bill for a discussion I was having elsewhere as I really don't see who they can actually sell given the wages/ ages / ability for the majority if their squad. It's a frightening level of mismanagement


Screenshot_20231031_184739_Chrome.jpg
 
Good post and an interesting take on what on the surface is a rather ridiculous comment from Levy.

I think with Levy there is at least always the wish for and working towards a functional structure. Even though at times, like this summer, we've been quite some way off having that structure in place.

Interesting hypothetical. If Ange had come in at United would his qualities have led to success there as it has (so far) here. Or is there something about our structure that is good enough to make it possible for him to do his thing and succeed there while he may not have at United?

Good question and, let’s be fair, Ange hasn’t succeeded here yet. He’s still got to deal with what ETH has to deal with in terms of some pretty major friction with players. Everything so far seems to be rosy in our garden, and that’s primarily down to Ange and his approach, but at some point there will be bad results and unhappy players and it’s how he deals with that sort of thing that’ll define how well he can do here.

I’d have bet on Jose succeeding at Man U and he didn’t despite a couple of cups and second place finish. Then again, he failed harder here than he did at Man U. A lot of it is dumb luck when it comes to managerial appointments or signings.

I think Levy, to be fair to him, has provided superb infrastructure which helps. I know it’s kind of fanciful but there is an expectation at Tottenham, more than many other clubs, that we’ll play a certain way and Ange definitely fits that. And, from a transfer perspective, Levy has backed managers recently without going for top tier players and within a certain structure that doesn’t give a manager too much control. Allied to that, the expectation at our club isn’t as great as at others if we’re being honest. So I think all those things have contributed to help Ange.

United have some of those elements but not others. Their infrastructure is brick, transfer business seems very unstructured and expectation is greater than here. All those things, perhaps, could work against Ange if he was there.

But who knows. In my view, sometimes it’s just dumb luck. You can put the right things in place, hire the “right guy” and it just doesn’t work.
 
Strange comment Naija, Poch is absolutely free to go work for anyone he wants, but he knows and we all know, what you get for moving to Chelsea in term of impact on how he is seen/legacy with Spurs. He chose it, so I'd say the opposite is true, he can't complain if he finds no sympathy over here.

Look at Kane, I'm delighted he's killing it in Germany (and he walked out on us), because Bayern has no impact on us, if he had chose Chelsea? very different.

Anyway, glad we got the guy we did

Personally I do not understand why you and others are not behind Agent Pochettino. You should be commending the good he work he is doing over there :D
 
Good question and, let’s be fair, Ange hasn’t succeeded here yet. He’s still got to deal with what ETH has to deal with in terms of some pretty major friction with players. Everything so far seems to be rosy in our garden, and that’s primarily down to Ange and his approach, but at some point there will be bad results and unhappy players and it’s how he deals with that sort of thing that’ll define how well he can do here.

I’d have bet on Jose succeeding at Man U and he didn’t despite a couple of cups and second place finish. Then again, he failed harder here than he did at Man U. A lot of it is dumb luck when it comes to managerial appointments or signings.

I think Levy, to be fair to him, has provided superb infrastructure which helps. I know it’s kind of fanciful but there is an expectation at Tottenham, more than many other clubs, that we’ll play a certain way and Ange definitely fits that. And, from a transfer perspective, Levy has backed managers recently without going for top tier players and within a certain structure that doesn’t give a manager too much control. Allied to that, the expectation at our club isn’t as great as at others if we’re being honest. So I think all those things have contributed to help Ange.

United have some of those elements but not others. Their infrastructure is brick, transfer business seems very unstructured and expectation is greater than here. All those things, perhaps, could work against Ange if he was there.

But who knows. In my view, sometimes it’s just dumb luck. You can put the right things in place, hire the “right guy” and it just doesn’t work.
ETH has caused that friction in some cases
 
Jus for context by the way, when the churn of Look who you have played comes out

Spurs and arsenal have played
Palace, Fulham, Bournemouth, United, and Sheffield United
Arsenal have also played city vs us playing pool
Everton and Forest who are now 15/16th & Everton were lower when arsenal played them
Chelsea …
So the difference is??
Home games vs away

arsenal have arguably had an easy run of fixtures too
 
ETH has caused that friction in some cases

He has but how often have you heard all sorts of people, fans and media alike, saying players need a disciplinarian? It was said a lot about United under OGS. It sounds like Sancho has been unprofessional to me. Ronaldo was extremely self centred and displayed it many times. Rashford was dropped for being late to a team meeting (and accepted it to be fair to the lad). So ETH has done what a lot of fans would be pleading for.

Ferguson did what ETH did routinely. I guess there are some crucial differences. Fergie rarely made it public. ETH has given too much information IMO. The world has also moved on from the days where you could “tell them like it is”. Most crucially, Fergie got rid of lads who crossed him and had the authority to do that. I’m not sure (m)any managers have that option these days when you’re talking about assets worth 100m+.

Just shows what a virtually impossible job football management is these days.
 
Back