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Vincent Janssen

Jurgen the German said:
I know how old they both are as you've pointed it out. He's 22 not 18. Poch would have expected more than 1 league goal and 0 from open play by early April regardless of the fact that he is 22. His age didn't stop him scoring goals for fun in Holland albeit it a much easier league.

Like I said, I'm more than happy for us to keep him on the condition that we sign a third striker. I know some will say others can contribute goals e.g. Alli, Son and Eriksen but you have to have confidence that your striker can score goals and Jansen hasn't shown he can score goals. Is that completely unreasonable?
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Would we have scored the first 3 goals from outside the box if Janssen hadn't been occupying the 2 cbs and creating the time for at least Dele and sons goals?
Ifs and buts I know but a consideration.
 
I still think will come good; he has the tenacity and attitide; just needs luck and time (plus a Poch pre-season). He wouldn't be the first player that took their time to develop under Poch.
Yes, Poch has been known to bin players after a season, but unless we buy a clear upgrade in terms of strength and hold-up play then he will be hear a while longer
 
glasgowspur said:
Would we have scored the first 3 goals from outside the box if Janssen hadn't been occupying the 2 cbs and creating the time for at least Dele and sons goals?
Ifs and buts I know but a consideration.
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It is interesting; i think the number of bangers we are hitting into the net from outside the box has shot up in the last couple of months i believe.

The mark of a top side imo is one that has a multi-faceted attacking force that is hard to TOTALLY nullify: push up, that side's attack get in behind you and punishes you with that space; sit back that side's attack passes quickly to eventually pull the defenders out of position and finds a crack to score; stay camped with 8 men or more behind the ball, that side attacks score a long-ranger to make you nervous about doing so.

It's a kind of variety of attack staple that the best and most attacking Wenger and Fergie sides always had that meant most teams couldn't knock them out of the top 2 spots in most seasons.

It's a testament to Poch that he has been able to build up such variety of attacking skillset over the last 2/3 years. The final furlong for me would be to enhance the speed and skill on the break and this is where his ability to fully integrate the likes of Nkoudou and Sissoko could make a huge difference if the other consituet parts don't falter too much. Janssen is imo anothe key component to combating physical side who want to sit deep and fustrate us that way.
 
glasgowspur said:
Would we have scored the first 3 goals from outside the box if Janssen hadn't been occupying the 2 cbs and creating the time for at least Dele and sons goals?
Ifs and buts I know but a consideration.
Click to expand...

I think occupying defenders is the bare minimum that should be required for a striker, if you're not even doing that then what exactly are you doing? To quote Brian Clough "If a player is not interfering with play then he shouldn't be on the pitch".

We've been fortunate that Eriksen, Son and Alli have all stepped up their game when Kane got injured. As good as those players all are, it's a big ask to expect them to keep up that level, you need your striker to chip in with goals and sadly Janssen hasn't done that. I can't see him starting any more games until the end of the season so it will be tough but I believe Janssen needs to score a few goals before the end of the season to try and win Poch over otherwise he could be out the door.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We've been fortunate that Eriksen, Son and Alli have all stepped up their game when Kane got injured. As good as those players all are, it's a big ask to expect them to keep up that level, you need your striker to chip in with goals and sadly Janssen hasn't done that. I can't see him starting any more games until the end of the season so it will be tough but I believe Janssen needs to score a few goals before the end of the season to try and win Poch over otherwise he could be out the door.
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I´m not sure of that. All these have well-developed footballbrains. They all knew that with Jansen instead of Kane it would be different kind of gameplay and they needed to adapt to that. Thet also know Jansen much better than any of us does, they know what he, at the moment, are capable of doing and not doing.

So for me its not a fortune, just an indication of a well-driven and well-functioning team.
 
The problem for Janssen, like sissoko, is that he doesn't get consistent game time to get used to the ebb and flow of the game. I would like to see him and Sissoko next season following some intensive Poch preseason condioning.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I know how old they both are as you've pointed it out. He's 22 not 18. Poch would have expected more than 1 league goal and 0 from open play by early April regardless of the fact that he is 22. His age didn't stop him scoring goals for fun in Holland albeit it a much easier league.

Like I said, I'm more than happy for us to keep him on the condition that we sign a third striker. I know some will say others can contribute goals e.g. Alli, Son and Eriksen but you have to have confidence that your striker can score goals and Jansen hasn't shown he can score goals. Is that completely unreasonable?
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No not at all, my main point was you trying to compere him to Soldado who was the finished product while Janssen is still a kid learning the game.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think occupying defenders is the bare minimum that should be required for a striker, if you're not even doing that then what exactly are you doing? To quote Brian Clough "If a player is not interfering with play then he shouldn't be on the pitch".

We've been fortunate that Eriksen, Son and Alli have all stepped up their game when Kane got injured. As good as those players all are, it's a big ask to expect them to keep up that level, you need your striker to chip in with goals and sadly Janssen hasn't done that. I can't see him starting any more games until the end of the season so it will be tough but I believe Janssen needs to score a few goals before the end of the season to try and win Poch over otherwise he could be out the door.
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If i remember rightly Clough said that in response to talking about the offside rule. IE " if he is not interfering with play he can not be offside" which he replied too with the above response.
 
glasgowspur said:
Would we have scored the first 3 goals from outside the box if Janssen hadn't been occupying the 2 cbs and creating the time for at least Dele and sons goals?
Ifs and buts I know but a consideration.
Click to expand...

parklane1 said:
If i remember rightly Clough said that in response to talking about the offside rule. IE " if he is not interfering with play he can not be offside" which he replied too with the above response.
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but that also means that anyone on the pitch is doing at least something.
 
Janssen is working well with the team right now, the players around him benefit from him being on the field, system is functioning. Yes, he has to start scoring, but the progress is there.

I suspect his biggest challenge this off season will be the fact that the club will need to buy another striker, which could push him down the pecking order further.

I have no issue with the guy, he's played his part in a few very important games in Kane's absence, maybe he comes good, maybe he doesn't, that's how football works.
 
We've seen time again, that to get into a groove you need to play regularly. Some players only start to excel after a whole season. Take Defoe as an example, when he was in and out effectively rotating with Robbie Keane he was half the player. But playing week in and out, he finds his range, confidence, and settles.

Janssen is 22, he has to train hard, and build confidence and consistency as much as possible with his limited game time, and start to impress - which means sticking the ball in the back of the net. He gets into the right positions now (something he wasn't doing initially), has a fierce show, good hold up play, and is definitely a team player. So some promising signs, but how he deals with playing a back-up role will be key to how he progresses. I think Poch and the club will stick by him.
 
He does look like he is a little flat footed and shy of confidence.

I hope that he finds his feet but I suspect he may just not get the playing time to prove himself.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I know, I just like the quote and it was vaguely similar to the point I was making :)
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FWIW I just googled that famous offside quote and found that these appear to be the most common (paraphrased) variations. Unfortunately none were accompanied by an authoritative source citing where and when it was said :

Billy Nick: 'If a player is not interfering with play he shouldn't be on the pitch' (also attributed to Danny Blanchflower, Bill Shankly, Brian Clough and no doubt Uncle Tom Cobley)


Bill Shankly: 'If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage then he should be.'


Brian Clough: 'If a player is not interfering with play then he's not getting paid.'
 
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