• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

billyiddo said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Again, keeping Suarez rather than selling for 40mil is a no brainer - it's no masterstroke from Henry, it's plain common sense (just as giving Rodgers the time and backing needed)
Click to expand...

Those only so many massive decisions that Levy takes that set us back a few years, that we can defend with the 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' line. I used to do it all the time, but we have made so many crucially bad decisions that are setting us back that a trend is emerging. Of course in hindsight the perfect decision could have been made, but a good chairman would make the right decision more often than not when it matters.

To people saying that this situation can't be compared with Bale: the point is being missed. I would agree they were incomparable situations when Liverpool only had to turn down 45m while we had to turn down record money, but now they've gotten him to a new contract things change. This isn't just 'increasing his value for the summer' this is Suarez committing. He agitated for a move a couple of months ago, does anyone seriously think he would increase Liverpool's bargaining power if he wasn't happy to stay?

He is happy there, he has seen the progress his club have made and they took advantage. We are a laughing stock in comparison. An absolute mess.
 
billyiddo said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Again, keeping Suarez rather than selling for 40mil is a no brainer - it's no masterstroke from Henry, it's plain common sense.
Click to expand...

True. Still, the point originally was that Liverpool were able to keep Suarez despite him thrashing against his restraints and demanding to be allowed to leave. We couldn't (or perhaps didn't want to) do the same with Bale. Why is that? Because, as you pointed out, we were offered 85 million and snatched at it greedily while waving Bale on his way with a merry pat on the back. We didn't want to try keeping him when it had reached that point.

Which, as hindsight is now telling us, was probably a bad decision, considering how easily Suarez re-adapted after being denied a move away and how awfully our seven new signings are struggling to adapt to PL football.

Is it unfair to judge Levy on hindsight? Very probably. And yet, in the position we're in, I'd argue Levy needs to be judged to a higher standard than his peers, simply because we do not have much room for error. And here, it looks like we've definitely erred.

If Liverpool secure a top four place, would Suarez leaving in the summer be as guaranteed as it seems now? Probably not. If they strengthen wisely, is the prospect of them re-claiming their CL spot for the foreseeable future unlikely? Again, probably not.

Then we'd have a wonderful situation where Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Liverpool would have the top four sewn up again while United try desperately to get back into it. Good luck getting Spurs into that club again. Sigh.

Three years ago, we were told that this was our chance to permanently break that top four cartel, and stamp our own name onto a CL spot for the foreseeable future. Now, three years on, through near misses, bad luck and bad decisions, we have never again entered top-level European competition, and the door looks like it's starting to close again for a while. From where I'm standing, it seems like these past few years have been a signal failure to impose ourselves in any way. And I'm not sure where to apportion the blame for that.

Again, I'd advise you to ignore me, I'm just venting. Let's hope Technical Tim pulls something out of his locker, then.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Those only so many massive decisions that Levy takes that set us back a few years, that we can defend with the 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' line. I used to do it all the time, but we have made so many crucially bad decisions that are setting us back that a trend is emerging. Of course in hindsight the perfect decision could have been made, but a good chairman would make the right decision more often than not when it matters.

To people saying that this situation can't be compared with Bale: the point is being missed. I would agree they were incomparable situations when Liverpool only had to turn down 45m while we had to turn down record money, but now they've gotten him to a new contract things change. This isn't just 'increasing his value for the summer' this is Suarez committing. He agitated for a move a couple of months ago, does anyone seriously think he would increase Liverpool's bargaining power if he wasn't happy to stay?

He is happy there, he has seen the progress his club have made and they took advantage. We are a laughing stock in comparison. An absolute mess.
Click to expand...

This is Suarez committing to a hefty pay rise.
 
90291Spur said:
This is Suarez committing to a hefty pay rise.
Click to expand...

With a release clause I bet

I'm sure that Torres signed a new contract before leaving too

Constructs mean buffer all than more money for the player and some bargaining power that wanes with time

Everyone knows that and I guarantee suarezs agents do

It's a no lose situation for him. They do extremely well and he can stay for another year and see what there really made of.... They start to fade away and his agent can circulate that magic number to certain parties and it's job done. Either way he probably gets 50% more each week and he knew they wouldn't sell in January

The liverpoo board rick the box of showing a commitment to their best players and creating a positive vibe around the club that keeps their momentum going. Again great move from the club and a no lose... He performs and they do well he stays. The clubs doesn't get top 4 and they got top dollar for an asset they have on,he been paying top dollar wages for a short period

It's all a win win ish for the moment
 
Can't help but agree with BrainOfLevy and DubaiSpur unfortunately.

Three years ago we broke up the big four monopoly of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester Utd, taking advantage of Liverpool's issues. Then in 10/11 we finished 5th which was no disgrace, we had ourselves a great time in the Champions League and were just unable to balance the knockout stages of that competition with the league as well as Emirates Marketing Project buying their success in order to topple ourselves. But in the meantime we had signed a top player like van der Vaart and allowed the likes of Modric and Bale to prosper and enhance their game at the top level. That and two good signings the next season led to us having an extremely strong first half to the 11/12 season, comfortably the third best side in the league but in typical Tottenham style a mixture of stuff happened - the wheels came off at the Lane dramatically, mainly as a result of Capello resigning meaning our manager lost much of his focus; Arsenal were **** but had van Persie in the form of his life to take them to 3rd place; Chelsea doing even more **** domestically but through sheer luck won the Champions League.

And then last season, to throw away a seven point gap in the final two months was just expected more than anything. We are just doomed to fail I'm afraid. In at least one of the last two or three seasons we really should have kicked on and established ourselves as a top team but the longer it went on without happening the more the doubts arose and now...

We're back to square one. Honestly, it currently feels EXACTLY like it did in 90's and early 2000's. We just seem proper midtable-like in the way we are acting as a club.

In the meantime, Arsenal have finally seen off their debt and buying top players, Chelsea have their messiah back and are bound to get better you would think, Liverpool are showing signs of becoming a genuine force again, City are just incredibly rich and annoyingly good as a result and United will probably recover from a bad year to be right up there again in the top four or five next season. Hell, even Southampton, Everton and to a lesser extent Saudi Sportswashing Machine have plenty reason to be optimistic. We've gone backwards after selling our best player and spunking £100m on mostly dross in the summer.

I hate to say it but I genuinely think the best we can hope for until we get the new stadium is 6th. Even the likes of Lloris and Vertonghen will probably want out should we fail to finish top six this season. Then who are we able to attract?

GHod knows where to shed the majority of the blame. Levy? Lots of it his way for being a stubborn man (until this summer he never got our main targets in until 31st August and often sells our best players on the last day of the transfer window) and either picking the wrong manager or picking the right one but not giving them enough time. The managers? Harry should have had us finish top three in 11/12 and we wouldn't be in this state now, but England turned his head, then again it's unlikely we would have done so well in the years before that with another manager. AVB? Baldini? Hell, Fabio Capello for throwing in the towel with England at a time we were cruising? JOHN GEORGE TERRY?! If he wasn't such a bellend then Capello would never have left them in the first place. It was a domino effect that set our decline in motion. We just didn't see it then.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Those only so many massive decisions that Levy takes that set us back a few years, that we can defend with the 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' line. I used to do it all the time, but we have made so many crucially bad decisions that are setting us back that a trend is emerging. Of course in hindsight the perfect decision could have been made, but a good chairman would make the right decision more often than not when it matters.

To people saying that this situation can't be compared with Bale: the point is being missed. I would agree they were incomparable situations when Liverpool only had to turn down 45m while we had to turn down record money, but now they've gotten him to a new contract things change. This isn't just 'increasing his value for the summer' this is Suarez committing. He agitated for a move a couple of months ago, does anyone seriously think he would increase Liverpool's bargaining power if he wasn't happy to stay?

He is happy there, he has seen the progress his club have made and they took advantage. We are a laughing stock in comparison. An absolute mess.
Click to expand...

Like Torres, Modric and Bale did right?

I think the Suarez situation is a lot more comparable to the Modric situation in the first season. We had an offer we considered derisory, from a league rival who we considered to not be too far ahead of us. Certainly, their conduct ****ed us off enough to not want to sell to them even more.

Liverpool received an offer they considered derisory (40,000,000 and 1 pound) for a player who'd been scoring at 1 goal a game levels, from a league rival who they considered to be one of the teams in their sights. Their conduct also incentivised them to hold on.

Bale was eventually a world record bid, from a team in an outside league and which is a club that is adept at prising players away from pretty much any club in the world due to its size and history.

Let me put it this way. If Real Madrid had bid 86 million for Suarez this summer and Chelsea had bid 40 million and 1 for Bale, we would still have Bale and they would not still have Suarez.
 
Hootnow said:
Let me put it this way. If Real Madrid had bid 86 million for Suarez this summer and Chelsea had bid 40 million and 1 for Bale, we would still have Bale and they would not still have Suarez.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

New contracts only mean a higher fee if someone comes calling. Didn't Bale sign a new deal almost every season the past couple of years?
 
We had no idea Bale was about to have such a ridiculously good season that catapulted him in the eyes of many to being a world class footballer. My guess is he got that contract to tie him down for longer and give him a deserved payrise with no idea Real Madrid would come calling a year later.

Suarez has been having a ridiculously good year and is world class, but signed the contract anyway. If he still wanted out so desperately at the end of the season, he simply wouldn't have considered signing a new contract that gives Liverpool power over him. He would have had a year left this summer which would have left Liverpool in a 'sell now for cheap or let go for free next year' situation, I'm sure he and his agent know that. So you've got to think he genuinely has had a change of heart and is happy to be there in the long term, otherwise it makes no sense that he signed the ****er (money increase yes, but does anyone think he's that bothered about money? doesn't strike me as the type).
 
Lilywhite said:
We had no idea Bale was about to have such a ridiculously good season that catapulted him in the eyes of many to being a world class footballer. My guess is he got that contract to tie him down for longer and give him a deserved payrise with no idea Real Madrid would come calling a year later.

Suarez has been having a ridiculously good year and is world class, but signed the contract anyway. If he still wanted out so desperately at the end of the season, he simply wouldn't have considered signing a new contract that gives Liverpool power over him. He would have had a year left this summer which would have left Liverpool in a 'sell now for cheap or let go for free next year' situation, I'm sure he and his agent know that. So you've got to think he genuinely has had a change of heart and is happy to be there in the long term, otherwise it makes no sense that he signed the ****er (money increase yes, but does anyone think he's that bothered about money? doesn't strike me as the type).
Click to expand...

My guess is that there's at least an informal agreement that he can leave if Liverpool don't qualify for the Champions League (assuming a big enough offer comes in). But right now, based in no small part on Suarez himself, that's looking like a decent bet for the Liverpool board.
 
Hootnow said:
Like Torres, Modric and Bale did right?

I think the Suarez situation is a lot more comparable to the Modric situation in the first season. We had an offer we considered derisory, from a league rival who we considered to not be too far ahead of us. Certainly, their conduct ****ed us off enough to not want to sell to them even more.

Liverpool received an offer they considered derisory (40,000,000 and 1 pound) for a player who'd been scoring at 1 goal a game levels, from a league rival who they considered to be one of the teams in their sights. Their conduct also incentivised them to hold on.

Bale was eventually a world record bid, from a team in an outside league and which is a club that is adept at prising players away from pretty much any club in the world due to its size and history.

Let me put it this way. If Real Madrid had bid 86 million for Suarez this summer and Chelsea had bid 40 million and 1 for Bale, we would still have Bale and they would not still have Suarez.
Click to expand...

Look I agree with you on the point that if we received a derisory bid for Bale, he would still be here. But on Suarez, I think people are kidding themselves because they are too used to Liverpool being the laughing stock of the last 4 years.

Suarez agitated like hell for a move this summer. More so than Bale. Obviously no club bid good money and therefore he stayed....but he signed a new contract!!! If he was absolutely desperate to leave, he would not be risking a dream move to Real when he would have been in an extremely strong position this summer with only 2 years left on his contract to force Liverpool into selling. Suarez and his agents would not give Liverpool the added security of being able to reject bids, knowing they have Suarez under contract for a further 4 to 5 years. Considering the acrimony over the disputed release clause, you can bet both sides will have made absolutely sure they got a deal they were happy with there. If Suarez was still desperate to leave, he simply would not sign any contract. An extra 80k a week is nothing compared to what he could earn by effectively guaranteeing a move to a super club by not signing the contract.

I think people need to face it, Liverpool have pulled off a massive coup, have a very strong squad and are making us look amateur in comparison. They have ensured they will keep one of the top strikers in the world, alongside a deadly effective Sturridge, a Coutinho with massive potential, and a lot of other talent. We are going to do very well to keep up with them I would think.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Look I agree with you on the point that if we received a derisory bid for Bale, he would still be here. But on Suarez, I think people are kidding themselves because they are too used to Liverpool being the laughing stock of the last 4 years.

Suarez agitated like hell for a move this summer. More so than Bale. Obviously no club bid good money and therefore he stayed....but he signed a new contract!!! If he was absolutely desperate to leave, he would not be risking a dream move to Real when he would have been in an extremely strong position this summer with only 2 years left on his contract to force Liverpool into selling. Suarez and his agents would not give Liverpool the added security of being able to reject bids, knowing they have Suarez under contract for a further 4 to 5 years. Considering the acrimony over the disputed release clause, you can bet both sides will have made absolutely sure they got a deal they were happy with there. If Suarez was still desperate to leave, he simply would not sign any contract. An extra 80k a week is nothing compared to what he could earn by effectively guaranteeing a move to a super club by not signing the contract.

I think people need to face it, Liverpool have pulled off a massive coup, have a very strong squad and are making us look amateur in comparison. They have ensured they will keep one of the top strikers in the world, alongside a deadly effective Sturridge, a Coutinho with massive potential, and a lot of other talent. We are going to do very well to keep up with them I would think.
Click to expand...

IMO Suarez has no loyalty to anyone but Suarez. He's already shown that and a leopard does not change its spots. If his agent had a release clause (or thought he did) in his previous contract you can be pretty sure he'll have one in this contract too. The contract just ensures proper compensation for Liverpool if the big boys come knocking. The new contract is just Suarez hedging his bets in case he's stuck in Liverpool for a while. I will be shocked if Real don't come sniffing around in one of the next couple of transfer windows.
 
Rorschach said:
IMO Suarez has no loyalty to anyone but Suarez. He's already shown that and a leopard does not change its spots. If his agent had a release clause (or thought he did) in his previous contract you can be pretty sure he'll have one in this contract too. The contract just ensures proper compensation for Liverpool if the big boys come knocking. The new contract is just Suarez hedging his bets in case he's stuck in Liverpool for a while. I will be shocked if Real don't come sniffing around in one of the next couple of transfer windows.
Click to expand...

100%%%%%
Unlike his last contract this one will have a written clause in it rather than an understanding guaranteed

He is about as loyal as most spurs fans were too AVB.... And by that I mean when we won he was GHod and when we lost he was the devil!!!

Don't kid yourselves here and think anything different.

I'm convinced Ledley would have eventually jumped ship if he had remained fit because he would have been offered top dollar and the chance to win trophies.

Liverpool have improved but still have achieved nothing, zero, nada, nil... Yet some people seem to think their the second coming. If they win the league I'll admit they have done incredibly well. I'm still far from convinced that they will finish top 4 yet and Suarez is always one game away from a lengthy ban.

If someone offered me a massive pay rise and security but also flexibility to go if things didn't work out on my terms I'd bite their hand off and that's what he will have now
 
If Suarez is so desperate get out guys, why would he sign this contract at all?

Bale signed one a year before he eventually left...but he didn't sign one AFTER agitating for the move like Suarez did.

If he was still do desperate to leave, why give Liverpool this security and power?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
If Suarez is so desperate get out guys, why would he sign this contract at all?

Bale signed one a year before he eventually left...but he didn't sign one AFTER agitating for the move like Suarez did.

If he was still do desperate to leave, why give Liverpool this security and power?
Click to expand...

Because it's a pay-rise, a huge one and contracts are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Win - win for Suarez. Imagine if Liverpool miss out on top 4. Real come knocking. And it depends the level at which they push. That will see just how strong their resolve is or how important the kop is.

I'd like to see any team withstand the pressure Real put Spurs under to sell Bale. It was almost impossible to keep him in the end.

Any way we have far too many of our own issues to even care about Liverpool right now
 
BrainOfLevy said:
If Suarez is so desperate get out guys, why would he sign this contract at all?

Bale signed one a year before he eventually left...but he didn't sign one AFTER agitating for the move like Suarez did.

If he was still do desperate to leave, why give Liverpool this security and power?
Click to expand...

Players and agents get a percentage of the total value of the contract as a signing on fee. The total value is £40 so Suarez and his agent are both in for a huge payday. That's the reason the contract is a 5 year deal, just like Modric's that time, to get the maximum signing on fee.

Also Suarez will get a proper clause in his contract now, not the 40m one that was in the last one that didnt really mean anything.
Liverpool look stronger to their fans. They will have done everything they could to keep Suarez there. They're writing their August PR (when he leaves after the World Cup) in advance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back