***TOTTENHAM Vs STOKE - OFFICIAL OMT***

[indianspur]

F#cking hell the Barca comment was not literal!

Ok. My point is that we were playing brilliant football for 6months, so if the coaches are sh#t, then the players clearly ignored them, and done their own thing......so why now is it the coaches fault, and not the players, when things go bad?

The same players, and the same coaches had us playing the best football the club has seen since the 60's. Now it goes wrong, both have to share the blame.

How can this possibly be down to just coaching?

best football since the 60's??

did you see the 86-87 team that finished 3rd? the 89-90 team that finished 3rd? imv those teams played better as a collective unit

im sure people who saw the Burkinshaw sides in the early 80's might have an opinion too

yes the players have to take some responsibility too, but too many have come out and said that Redknapp doesnt take training seriously. He himself has said the game is not so much about tactics as it is about having good players. He is a supreme man manager, many have said this, but many have also said that his teams dont work enough on the training pitch

even when we were playing well and getting results, there were worrying signs. Fulham away was a shocker for me, in the second half we could not pass from a to b, simple passes, we allowed an average Fulham side to absolutely batter us. But we got away with it, we always have the talent to get away with it.

a team with Bale, Modric, Lennon, Sandro, Parker, VDV, Adebayor, Defoe has enough talent to be regualrly winning games in the premier league. Its a given, even without having to train them too much. They have too much individual talent for it to be otherwise. However, to really get the best out of them and the rest, they also need to be constantly pushed and coached on the training pitch. To get to the next level, to really challenge the top teams, we have to be better at set pieces, we have to keep the ball better when under pressure, we have to create more chances, real chances where we get in behind the opposition and cross the ball into dangerous areas, even when we are not confident for whatever reason we still have a pattern of play to fall back on, a pattern drilled into the players so that its almost second nature and the players dont have to think about what they are doing

maybe im wrong, who cares. Just sharing my thoughts

 

[markysimmo]

Horrible luck in the last few games. I believed there isn't such thing as luck. Because that means you don't believe you have the power to change something. But the way that Stoke goal went in, the Everton offside, the way the last few games have gone for us and Arsenal... you got to think that someone is poking fun at us from above.

Still what can you do. It's just a game. Right?

The footballing gods are massively against us and massively in the scums favour...again

 

[totman]

best football since the 60's??

did you see the 86-87 team that finished 3rd? the 89-90 team that finished 3rd? imv those teams played better as a collective unit

im sure people who saw the Burkinshaw sides in the early 80's might have an opinion too

yes the players have to take some responsibility too, but too many have come out and said that Redknapp doesnt take training seriously. He himself has said the game is not so much about tactics as it is about having good players. He is a supreme man manager, many have said this, but many have also said that his teams dont work enough on the training pitch

even when we were playing well and getting results, there were worrying signs. Fulham away was a shocker for me, in the second half we could not pass from a to b, simple passes, we allowed an average Fulham side to absolutely batter us. But we got away with it, we always have the talent to get away with it.

a team with Bale, Modric, Lennon, Sandro, Parker, VDV, Adebayor, Defoe has enough talent to be regualrly winning games in the premier league. Its a given, even without having to train them too much. They have too much individual talent for it to be otherwise. However, to really get the best out of them and the rest, they also need to be constantly pushed and coached on the training pitch. To get to the next level, to really challenge the top teams, we have to be better at set pieces, we have to keep the ball better when under pressure, we have to create more chances, real chances where we get in behind the opposition and cross the ball into dangerous areas, even when we are not confident for whatever reason we still have a pattern of play to fall back on, a pattern drilled into the players so that its almost second nature and the players dont have to think about what they are doing

maybe im wrong, who cares. Just sharing my thoughts

There's no right or wrong, its just a discussion..

I think the football we played during our best spell this side was widely considered as some of the best since the double winning side, by journos fans and pundits.

I was 8 when we won the UEFA Cup, and although I realize we have had great players in the 89-90 and 86-87 teams, I feel that the first time we have been seen a serious PL title contenders speaks volumes.

Now, it all feels a bit 2005.

I am fully aware of the role of the coaches.....but Im also fully aware, that a players form and confidence is down to the player mostly.

 

[ArcspacE]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/socce...BzdGNhdANibG9nBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3

This appears to be the only solution of late between pro and anti-Arry supporter groups on this board

One massive brawl in a tight space - no rules. DHSF as Don King

 

[ArcspacE]

Harry bemoans lack of patience


Spurs boss says his players 'huffed and puffed' too much

By Razwan Mirza. Last Updated: March 21, 2012 11:33pm

The North London outfit crashed out of the Premier League top three for the first time in more than three months despite Rafael van der Vaart's 93rd-minute equaliser sparing them a fourth straight defeat.

Cameron Jerome looked to have secured a first ever double for Stoke over Tottenham, but the Dutchman snatched a point for the hosts, who will need to improve massively to secure a top-four spot that for so long looked theirs for the taking.

"Stoke are never an easy team to beat," Redknapp told Sky Sports. "They were solid and you know I said before the game, we had to be careful from set-plays and we got punished from a set-play.

"I really couldn't see us scoring because we huffed and puffed and hit the bar with Gareth (Bale), but I was thankful in the end with that goal.

"They've got to be more patient. They get carried away with the crowd at times and started playing from back to front to quick. We're a footballing team that plays and people have got to be patient."
Harry Redknapp on his Tottenham side Quotes of the week

"I mean, we all want three points at home but maybe a point will be important at the end of the day but we just seemed to have lost our way a bit.

"We're not playing with quite the same fluency that we were a few weeks ago. It's difficult to put your finger on it really but we just don't seem to be shifting the ball around like we did.

Jaded

"One or two of us look a little bit off the pace, a little bit jaded but you know we go to Chelsea on Saturday for a big game, so we have to pick ourselves up again and we have to go there and try and get a result.

"They've got to be more patient. They get carried away with the crowd at times and started playing from back to front to quick. We're a footballing team that plays and people have got to be patient. They can't worry about the crowd being inpatient because we had lots of passes.

"You can't lump the ball forward against Stoke because they have two centre-halves who are good in the air. We had to just be patient. With 30 minutes to go, we just panicked a bit and started playing too quick.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/7616234/Harry-bemoans-lack-of-patience

 

[SteveAWOL]

Just got back from the game and to say i am tinkled off would be a understatement, apart from the Arse game this was one of the worst performances i have seen for a while. The players look like they have no idea what they are trying to do ( whether its a lack of confidence or just unsure of the tactics from Redknapp) i have no idea.

Our dead ball situations are getting worse ( if that is possible) and it beggars belief that Redknapp and his entourage of coaches are not doing any work on them, we have some top players and several good ones but we are struggling to beat teams like Stoke and the same thing happened last season against the likes of Blackpool etc. Redknapp's biggest problem is that because he has done well he has built up the expectations of us fans, we have the players who are able to reach the top but we seem to have problems getting any further.

Unfortuatly it was always a fear of mine that Redknapp does not have the tactical knowledge to take us to the very top ( and keep us there) and i am begining to see what he means when he says this is good as it gets, he is not able to change after over 30 years of management and maybe he relises that as well,being able to motivate players is a good thing but to get to the very top managers need to be able to do more and Redknapp is struggling to do that.

I was sat in Park Lane last night too and pretty much agree with your view on the game and our management.

I just don't think that the old dog is capable of learning any new tricks and he seems incapable of sorting out our embarrassingly bad set pieces, surely with all the coaches we have at the club one of them could take it upon themselves to make sure the players practice the things properly. Amazing that players of VdV and Modric' ability can't even deliver a decent corner or free kick.

 

[Dicko]

Sorry if mentioned somewhere before but does anyone know why some fellas had a bust up in the East Stand at Half Time!! People all around us came back to there seats saying some blokes got dragged out by stewards, apparently one got tacoted and his face was a mess!?

 

[parklane1]

I was sat in Park Lane last night too and pretty much agree with your view on the game and our management.

I just don't think that the old dog is capable of learning any new tricks and he seems incapable of sorting out our embarrassingly bad set pieces, surely with all the coaches we have at the club one of them could take it upon themselves to make sure the players practice the things properly. Amazing that players of dVD and Modric' ability can't even deliver a decent corner or free kick.

Basically Redknapp is the same manager ( tactical wise) as he has always been, in the days when he started as a manager it was always good enough to get good players on the field doing their own thing. But football has moved on and its now more of a tactical game then it has ever been, unforuatly Redknapp still believes that telling his players to get out there and run around a bit is no longer good enough to reach the very top, it will get you so far but then it fails. He is a dinosaur and seems unable to move on ( hence the reason i said i am begining to understand why he says " this is good as it gets"), any football coach will tell you that deadball situations can in some game be the difference between winning and losing' (especially at the very top) and the thought that we do not spend anytime working on them is a big minus point for both Redknapp and his band of coaches.

 

[Dicko]

Basically Redknapp is the same manager ( tactical wise) as he has always been, in the days when he started as a manager it was always good enough to get good players on the field doing their own thing. But football has moved on and its now more of a tactical game then it has ever been, unforuatly Redknapp still believes that telling his players to get out there and run around a bit is no longer good enough to reach the very top, it will get you so far but then it fails. He is a dinosaur and seems unable to move on ( hence the reason i said i am begining to understand why he says " this is good as it gets"), any football coach will tell you that deadball situations can in some game be the difference between winning and losing' (especially at the very top) and the thought that we do not spend anytime working on them is a big minus point for both Redknapp and his band of coaches.

This.

Stoke make a Premier League living out of Set Pieces alone. Apart from some dogged defending it's all they have!!!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Clive Allen and Les Ferdinand as coaches and we have no clue when it comes to corners or free kicks. Both should be sacked.


Gary

 

[SteveAWOL]

This.

Stoke make a Premier League living out of Set Pieces alone. Apart from some dogged defending it's all they have!!!

Blackburn may avoid relegation largely thanks to the 17 set-pieces (compared to our 5) that they've scored from this season. If they can do it with the players they've got then surely with the likes of Bale, VdV and Modric delivering dead balls we should be getting much more. Even ARSEnal scored from a corner last night to win them the 3pts.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

best football since the 60's??

did you see the 86-87 team that finished 3rd? the 89-90 team that finished 3rd? imv those teams played better as a collective unit

You clearly didn't see them then. That 89/90 team wasn't exactly attractive to watch. The 86/87 team was far more wasteful than the current team too. Burkinshaw's teams were a lot more attractive than both.

 

[indianspur]

You clearly didn't see them then. That 89/90 team wasn't exactly attractive to watch. The 86/87 team was far more wasteful than the current team too. Burkinshaw's teams were a lot more attractive than both.

i did watch them, i went to around 10 home games and i cant remember how many away but it was more than 10 iirc. its my opinion they were more attractive. Gascoigne was on fire, his telepathic relationship with Lineker was a joy to watch, we cut through teams with intelligent forward running and smart passes in behind defences. We finished 3rd, we won at Old Trafford, twice for gods sake, once in the league and once in the cup, we won at Stamford Bridge, we beat the arse at home, im sure we beat Utd at home too

if you disagree, why not just say that, you disagree. why imply i never watched them. How do you know? go on, tell me, how on earth do you know i didnt watch them?

 

[noddy1991]

the 89/90 side weren't that good. we hung around in midtable for most of the season before winning 7 of the last 8 which somehow catapulted us into 3rd on a very low 63 points. that must be the lowest total 3rd place team has ever got in a 38 game season

winning at old trafford was no big deal back then. they were absolutely awful for most of the season going on a long winless run in the middle of the season before somehow saving fergie's bacon by winning the cup

 

[indianspur]

the 89/90 side weren't that good. we hung around in midtable for most of the season before winning 7 of the last 8 which somehow catapulted us into 3rd on a very low 63 points. that must be the lowest total 3rd place team has ever got in a 38 game season

winning at old trafford was no big deal back then. they were absolutely awful for most of the season going on a long winless run in the middle of the season before somehow saving fergie's bacon by winning the cup

winning 7 out of the last 8, hmmmm i wonder how many would take that right now. I guess Arse fans will have to enjoy that kind of run this season

Ok, apart from gascoigne and lineker, the team wasnt sprinkled with the kind of names and talent we have currently. Thats why in reality finishing 3rd was quite an achievement, and ahead of Arsenal who the season before had won the title. They were no mugs back then.

i would do anything to see again the football and excitement that gascoigne and Lineker provided that season. They were absolutely at the top of their games

 

[lurker of old]

Too much emphasis on individual flair and not enough on pattern of play. There's no system to fall back on when individual brilliance fails to shine. It's as clear as day.

It did look worryingly like that. I would play Sandro on Saturday just to get some energy. It is worrying that modders didn't look sharp. The FA have fudged us this season, the whole England manager thing (ie Harry wanting to leave) has completely thrown the team into a downward spiral. We just have to pray that our home form recovers....Swansea is going to be a heck of an important game.

 

[indianspur]

Too much emphasis on individual flair and not enough on pattern of play. There's no system to fall back on when individual brilliance fails to shine. It's as clear as day.

It did look worryingly like that.

this is what Vincent Pericard had to say recently about training under Redknapp....

He said: "Playing at Stoke under Tony was different to being at Portsmouth with Harry. With Harry, you had plenty of five-a-sides but at Stoke, it was all about shape.

and its defensive shape as well as attacking shape which is exactly what we are missing now. We are all over the shop, like you say, waiting for the individual brilliance, which we have in our locker, to help save the day

 

[parklane1]

this is what Vincent Pericard had to say recently about training under Redknapp....

He said: "Playing at Stoke under Tony was different to being at Portsmouth with Harry. With Harry, you had plenty of five-a-sides but at Stoke, it was all about shape.

and its defensive shape as well as attacking shape which is exactly what we are missing now. We are all over the shop, like you say, waiting for the individual brilliance, which we have in our locker, to help save the day

And this is the reason he has won one trophy in over 30 years as a manager, he is not the man who is going to take us to the levels we will need to really challenge for the top place.

 

[thfcsteff]

Too much emphasis on individual flair and not enough on pattern of play. There's no system to fall back on when individual brilliance fails to shine. It's as clear as day.

It did look worryingly like that. I would play Sandro on Saturday just to get some energy. It is worrying that modders didn't look sharp. The FA have fudged us this season, the whole England manager thing (ie Harry wanting to leave) has completely thrown the team into a downward spiral. We just have to pray that our home form recovers....Swansea is going to be a heck of an important game.

On the money, all of this. It's about the players now, not Harry, seriously, he's lost the plot...I would also play Sandro Saturday...I think Modders will have a blinder and I think we will come back and stick one up everyone...

But again, i must repeat my assertion that with the right manager, this squad could've been top right now...

 

[SpurMeUp]

Too much emphasis on individual flair and not enough on pattern of play. There's no system to fall back on when individual brilliance fails to shine. It's as clear as day.

this is what Vincent Pericard had to say recently about training under Redknapp....

He said: "Playing at Stoke under Tony was different to being at Portsmouth with Harry. With Harry, you had plenty of five-a-sides but at Stoke, it was all about shape.

and its defensive shape as well as attacking shape which is exactly what we are missing now. We are all over the shop, like you say, waiting for the individual brilliance, which we have in our locker, to help save the day

Exactly. Banging on about this for a while. We don't have the balance right between the fluid attacking and team organisation shape. I think the most successful teams combine both.

That said we wouldn't want to be like Stoke or Hodgson's teams, we were playing very well with a more fluid system for most of the season. But it is frustrating when you see us make life difficult by not having clear shape when attacking and defending. If Harry could add greater organisation to the team and combine it with his ability to get players expressing their flair, we'd take another step forward.