Timo Werner

[Jurgen the German]

Me and Bishop are catching a lot flak for our views re Werner which is fine, this is a football forum we don’t have to agree on everything. For the record I’ve said Werner has done ok but we need better than good/ok, we need elite. Werner is 28, we know what we he is compared to Johnson who is 22 and still has 5-6 years before he hits his peak and is still adjusting to playing at this level.

 

[Grays_1890]

Forget the stats, watch him play. Playstyle wise he's the type of player we need and he has 12 assists this season so I'm not sure what spin they had on the stats. Maybe per 90 but that has to take into account he plays for Sociedad hardly a team with a great striker.

Nico Williams isnt the answer either to the starting class people talk of, far too streaky for the starting spot if we really wanna kick on.

As I have said before, I would take Werner for depth value, I think its a no brainer and then look for alot better than him and the likes of Williams for starting.

 

[DubSpur]

Werners creativity has been fine. He's fired in a decent number of crosses across the 6 yard box that would've been a tap in if we had a striker trying to get on the end of them instead of standing at the edge of the box.
The one area that I feel he could do better is getting into the 6 yard box himself when Johnson is looking to put in similar crosses from the other side. Johnson has been brave in getting in there and has got goals from it, just need the same from Werner.

 

[parklane1]

Me and Bishop are catching a lot flak for our views re Werner which is fine, this is a football forum we don’t have to agree on everything. For the record I’ve said Werner has done ok but we need better than good/ok, we need elite. Werner is 28, we know what we he is compared to Johnson who is 22 and still has 5-6 years before he hits his peak and is still adjusting to playing at this level.

I think that is a fair summing up on both players, as you say we would love elite players but they do not grow on trees and would probably have offers from teams who are at the moment ahead of us in development. To be honest i would think we need other posistions where our money should be spent first, a DM and a STRIKER would be the priority imo and that is where our money should be spent first. I guess we will see what Ange decides.

 

[Bishop]

Nico Williams isnt the answer either to the starting class people talk of, far too streaky for the starting spot if we really wanna kick on.

As I have said before, I would take Werner for depth value, I think its a no brainer and then look for alot better than him and the likes of Williams for starting.

That's fair enough, Williams may well not be consistent enough but at least you understand what I'm getting at quality of attack wise.

 

[glasgowspur]

Me and Bishop are catching a lot flak for our views re Werner which is fine, this is a football forum we don’t have to agree on everything. For the record I’ve said Werner has done ok but we need better than good/ok, we need elite. Werner is 28, we know what we he is compared to Johnson who is 22 and still has 5-6 years before he hits his peak and is still adjusting to playing at this level.

Personally I think werner is doing fine for now. could we get better, yes.
Will we look to upgrade, yes.
Is it a priority, maybe not.
It's a developing squad though and it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do not believe in assists as a stat that directly correlates to creativity, I only mentioned the assists because I knew otherwise Bedford would mention them or someone else would.

Likewise I judge creativity with my eyes and obviously we will disagree because I do not believe that just throwing crosses into the box is creativity. Creativity is guile and vision, again we'll disagree but I do not believe Werner provides that. He's a direct threat in the sense that he has pace, but his passing is ok, his crossing is ok. Neither are particularly insicive. I know you think i'm talking nonsense but I think you'll be surprised when a fox in the box doesn't scored 30 goals a season from crosses with Werner being directly responsible for 15 of them. I'm just saying it now, in a year's time you'll see what I see now. He's not of the required standard.

Your assuming Werner is the starting choice
He is now because we have no CF
Have son playing out of position but he could be the one playing left side
That’s another option there too
But .. but .. we need that body on the box or any wide player will not get the impact. That’s what’s cost us massively IMO. Ange talks too about the attack not taking the value of the chances (or something like that). And I doubt that’s werner missing his two shots

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's fair enough, Williams may well not be consistent enough but at least you understand what I'm getting at quality of attack wise.

Williams could be anything. We have discussed that before. I’d like to see us get him because it’s a real option again.
The modern game is about 20 men or more and that’s why some teams struggle. He could easily set the world on fire here like Doku did for a bit at city
Grealish will be available this summer. Any thoughts on him?
I really like him by the way so I’ll start with that

 

[Bishop]

Your assuming Werner is the starting choice
He is now because we have no CF
Have son playing out of position but he could be the one playing left side
That’s another option there too
But .. but .. we need that body on the box or any wide player will not get the impact. That’s what’s cost us massively IMO. Ange talks too about the attack not taking the value of the chances (or something like that). And I doubt that’s werner missing his two shots

Nah I'm not assuming he is. I've said loads of times if he's in addition to someone better then I'm happy to have him. I just don't want him to be the primary starting option.

 

[Bishop]

Williams could be anything. We have discussed that before. I’d like to see us get him because it’s a real option again.
The modern game is about 20 men or more and that’s why some teams struggle. He could easily set the world on fire here like Doku did for a bit at city
Grealish will be available this summer. Any thoughts on him?
I really like him by the way so I’ll start with that

I'm a bit wishy washy on Grealish, he's great at holding the ball and progressing it but he lacks a killer ball for me. I love possesion but I'm not such a fan of possesion for possesions sake and I'd fear at the point that Grealish would offer a lot of the ball without the killer part.

Ange's system clearly works in terms of gaining possesion via shape and movement, I just think what takes it to the next level are I guess just a better quality of player with more rounded attributes. Those guys who have the pass along with the press resistance. Even then it's a really difficult system to perfect because I've seen Pep era Barca (probably the best team I've ever seen) not retain the CL or win three La Ligas in row so yeah maybe it won't ever work. Hell look at City yesterday, 33 shots and still couldn't beat Real.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm a bit wishy washy on Grealish, he's great at holding the ball and progressing it but he lacks a killer ball for me. I love possesion but I'm not such a fan of possesion for possesions sake and I'd fear at the point that Grealish would offer a lot of the ball without the killer part.

Ange's system clearly works in terms of gaining possesion via shape and movement, I just think what takes it to the next level are I guess just a better quality of player with more rounded attributes. Those guys who have the pass along with the press resistance. Even then it's a really difficult system to perfect because I've seen Pep era Barca (probably the best team I've ever seen) not retain the CL or win three La Ligas in row so yeah maybe it won't ever work. Hell look at City yesterday, 33 shots and still couldn't beat Real.

They couldn’t beat real because they let the goals leave in the summer
Gungodan and Mahrez always scored the important goals
Amazing how invisible haaland was again for a player so good

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nah I'm not assuming he is. I've said loads of times if he's in addition to someone better then I'm happy to have him. I just don't want him to be the primary starting option.

But your talking about Werner crossing for this new striker
It won’t be just him
It will be others too
I’m convinced we I’ll get 2 attacking players in and let at least 2 go

 

[Bishop]

But your talking about Werner crossing for this new striker
It won’t be just him
It will be others too
I’m convinced we I’ll get 2 attacking players in and let at least 2 go

100% they are weaker than they were and I've thought that all season but it's also interesting because they've gone for Haaland the type of striker attributes wise you wouldn't think suits the Pep model. It obviously worked last season but I'm not surprised that a penalty box style fox in the box doesn't really work in the Pep system. You need an all rounder, a finisher, a hold up guy, a creator basically a Kane to finish off the Pep system.

It's also why I'm against the idea of a pure penalty box striker for Ange, it's not what will make his system ultimately successful imo. A player loitering around the box who waits for crosses to flash across is very one dimensional play and something that I think would be worked out rather quickly. You need more variety and more guile than that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

100% they are weaker than they were and I've thought that all season but it's also interesting because they've gone for Haaland the type of striker attributes wise you wouldn't think suits the Pep model. It obviously worked last season but I'm not surprised that a penalty box style fox in the box doesn't really work in the Pep system. You need an all rounder, a finisher, a hold up guy, a creator basically a Kane to finish off the Pep system.

It's also why I'm against the idea of a pure penalty box striker for Ange, it's not what will make his system ultimately successful imo. A player loitering around the box who waits for crosses to flash across is very one dimensional play and something that I think would be worked out rather quickly. You need more variety and more guile than that.

City’s issue is they need tow haalands at times because of how much ball they have

we don’t need a fix in the box. We need a presence striker. Someone who literally imposes himself on the position by being there. Something like Costa used to do at chelsea

 

[Baleforce]

City’s issue is they need tow haalands at times because of how much ball they have

we don’t need a fix in the box. We need a presence striker. Someone who literally imposes himself on the position by being there. Something like Costa used to do at chelsea

I agree, we need a complete bastard in there, dives, elbows, the whole shebang.

City have two problems, they concede too many goals, and they are not industrial enough when they need a goal. Too dogmatic in their approach.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree, we need a complete bastard in there, dives, elbows, the whole shebang.

City have two problems, they concede too many goals, and they are not industrial enough when they need a goal. Too dogmatic in their approach.

Yep
Its weird with them IMO

 

[Jurgen the German]

They couldn’t beat real because they let the goals leave in the summer
Gungodan and Mahrez always scored the important goals
Amazing how invisible haaland was again for a player so good

Haaland is a bit of a flat track bully. Amazing finisher and has unbelievable pace and movement but I’m still not convinced he actually improved them last season or this. He didn’t make the difference in any of the win or go home knockout games last season and didn’t against Real Madrid in either game this time round.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Haaland is a bit of a flat track bully. Amazing finisher and has unbelievable pace and movement but I’m still not convinced he actually improved them last season or this. He didn’t make the difference in any of the win or go home knockout games last season and didn’t against Real Madrid in either game this time round.

He is brilliant and elite at some things but his football intelligence is not there to match his physical attibutes

I think Mbappe is similar but I haven’t seen as much

there still elite player and world class by definition but if you compare these to Messi and Ronaldo there not on the same level

I think some players having the natural attributes means others parts of their game have gaps

 

[Jurgen the German]

City’s issue is they need tow haalands at times because of how much ball they have

we don’t need a fix in the box. We need a presence striker. Someone who literally imposes himself on the position by being there. Something like Costa used to do at chelsea

I agree with Bishop’s analysis on this tbh. It’s a bit one dimensional to expect all of our goals to come from tap ins via crosses from the wingers into the 6 yard box. As we all know, teams adapt and figure you out. We need something cleverer than that when that tactic doesn’t work or teams stifle us. A front line of Werner, Richy and Johnson is hardly the most skilful attacking trio.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree with Bishop’s analysis on this tbh. It’s a bit one dimensional to expect all of our goals to come from tap ins via crosses from the wingers into the 6 yard box. As we all know, teams adapt and figure you out. We need something cleverer than that when that tactic doesn’t work or teams stifle us. A front line of Werner, Richy and Johnson is hardly the most skilful attacking trio.

It’s why I’ve never said we need a tap in merchant or a fix in the box
I’ve said the opposite
We need a presence player
Some who the opposition know they will be battling from minute 1
But they will get plenty of tap ins