Timo Werner

[Jurgen the German]

Werner’s numbers are as good as the players in the top 3 playing as a wide forward/winger.
Goal or assist every other game
He also misses less than most but they always seem glaring kind alike Nunez or Diaz or Jesus
Don’t get me wrong, I always want upgrades and improvement. But I also think we have an issue with under rating our own and over rating others. And im sure you will say im doing the opposite but the stats show what Werner is actually delivering
As I say… he compared to Diaz very well but for less money

Fair enough. Once again I’m happy with him as a backup but not as a starter long term. We need more technical players and clinical finishers. I don’t think any of our forwards fit that description aside from Son who has his faults, but does create and is an elite finisher. I don’t see us challenging for the title next season with the forward line as it is. And I completely accept we concede too many goals and that also needs to be addressed.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough. Once again I’m happy with him as a backup but not as a starter long term. We need more technical players and clinical finishers. I don’t think any of our forwards fit that description aside from Son who has his faults, but does create and is an elite finisher. I don’t see us challenging for the title next season with the forward line as it is. And I completely accept we concede too many goals and that also needs to be addressed.

But who is arsenals elite finisher?
They are top and deservedly too
Fix the leaks and we’re massively, massively better off
As I highlighted before… if we had stopped conceding 3 less set piece goals we would be fighting for the title .. 3
That’s scary right as we concede loads of goals but only conceding one set piece vs Everton, none vs wolves (so a draw) and none vs West Ham and we would be 7 points better off
That’s just recent games too
Every team has issues though
City can’t keep clean sheets and neither can pool
Arsenal is harder to pin point although I’d argue they need a striker but their GD clearly says the opposite

 

[Bishop]

Werner’s numbers are as good as the players in the top 3 playing as a wide forward/winger.
Goal or assist every other game
He also misses less than most but they always seem glaring kind alike Nunez or Diaz or Jesus
Don’t get me wrong, I always want upgrades and improvement. But I also think we have an issue with under rating our own and over rating others. And im sure you will say im doing the opposite but the stats show what Werner is actually delivering
As I say… he compared to Diaz very well but for less money

If we have a top DM and dominate possesion more and control games more due to the quality of possesion Werner's lack of 1v1 dribbling will be a detriment. We need that from someone in the attacking 3 and none have it. Werner's role is the obvious place to add it, given the profiles of Son, Richie and Johnson.

I just don't won't want to waste the time having to upgrade him in a year's time when we can just do it now. I want to win it all and I think we have a much better chance with a better player. I've seen the same arguments over the years on here about how this player matches that player for that team etc and my eyes see it differently and ultimately so do the results.

 

[Jurgen the German]

But who is arsenals elite finisher?
They are top and deservedly too
Fix the leaks and we’re massively, massively better off
As I highlighted before… if we had stopped conceding 3 less set piece goals we would be fighting for the title .. 3
That’s scary right as we concede loads of goals but only conceding one set piece vs Everton, none vs wolves (so a draw) and none vs West Ham and we would be 7 points better off
That’s just recent games too
Every team has issues though
City can’t keep clean sheets and neither can pool
Arsenal is harder to pin point although I’d argue they need a striker but their GD clearly says the opposite

Saka is their best attacking player. I still think they’re wasteful in front of goal at times and could be better with a better number nine than Jesus.

I don’t think it’s as simple as we stop leaking as many goals and we therefore become title challengers. It will definitely help but it wont change my view that we need better forwards and I honestly don’t think ours are as good as a unit and individually than the top 3.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If we have a top DM and dominate possesion more and control games more due to the quality of possesion Werner's lack of 1v1 dribbling will be a detriment. We need that from someone in the attacking 3 and none have it. Werner's role is the obvious place to add it, given the profiles of Son, Richie and Johnson.

I just don't won't want to waste the time having to upgrade him in a year's time when we can just do it now. I want to win it all and I think we have a much better chance with a better player. I've seen the same arguments over the years on here about how this player matches that player for that team etc and my eyes see it differently and ultimately so do the results.

The results with Werner here though have been better than they were when he wasn’t. He also does beat his man in the way you describe. He doesn’t is it in an aesthetically pleasing way but he does beat his man 1v1
If we had a CF target we would have scored even more goals.
I get what you saying about what you see but the numbers aren’t lying. We’re not flowing well but it’s not because of our wide forwards. I’d argue it’s because we haven’t floor the balance in midfield that clicked earlier in the season and we don’t have a striker. Someone who makes CBs work. It’s huge for Ange ball and they don’t have to be a world class finisher either.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Saka is their best attacking player. I still think they’re wasteful in front of goal at times and could be better with a better number nine than Jesus.

I don’t think it’s as simple as we stop leaking as many goals and we therefore become title challengers. It will definitely help but it wont change my view that we need better forwards and I honestly don’t think ours are as good as a unit and individually than the top 3.

It’s opinions of course
But the facts are we score goals. We do well on that front and convert higher than our Xg which is a strength
But… we concede goals at a rate of a relegation level team
Arsenal with Toney would be a hell of a side. But then their football may well have to change a bit
They are actually worse off points wise than last season yet look better

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just for context about Arsenal @Jurgen the German
This time last year they had 3 more points, 74 goals scored and 31 against

This year 71 points, 75 goals for and only 24 against

They addressed their depth issue and the goals conceded column to become better.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It’s opinions of course
But the facts are we score goals. We do well on that front and convert higher than our Xg which is a strength
But… we concede goals at a rate of a relegation level team
Arsenal with Toney would be a hell of a side. But then their football may well have to change a bit
They are actually worse off points wise than last season yet look better

We do score goals. But we could score more goals with better forwards. Just because a player fits the system doesn’t mean there isn’t a better player out there that still fits the system. And again, I believe our high goal tally is in part owed to how many bodies we chuck forward, hence the number of goals we concede because we commit lots of men going forward.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Just for context about Arsenal @Jurgen the German
This time last year they had 3 more points, 74 goals scored and 31 against

This year 71 points, 75 goals for and only 24 against

They addressed their depth issue and the goals conceded column to become better.

Yeah but you’re forgetting they completely collapsed at this time last season. It may happen again but I don’t see it happening as they’re scoring plenty of goals and look solid at the other end. If they win 5 out of their last 7 games then they better last season’s point total. Considering how they are playing now that looks a given.

 

[Bishop]

The results with Werner here though have been better than they were when he wasn’t. He also does beat his man in the way you describe. He doesn’t is it in an aesthetically pleasing way but he does beat his man 1v1
If we had a CF target we would have scored even more goals.
I get what you saying about what you see but the numbers aren’t lying. We’re not flowing well but it’s not because of our wide forwards. I’d argue it’s because we haven’t floor the balance in midfield that clicked earlier in the season and we don’t have a striker. Someone who makes CBs work. It’s huge for Ange ball and they don’t have to be a world class finisher either.

Of course the results are better, before we had a void. I'm not saying he's useless, I'm saying we can do better and I would prefer better.

Again if he's in addition to a bonfide starter then happy days but no I don't think he's the one for us otherwise.

Go back and watch his matches in detail, just concentrate on what he does, you'll be surprised by the amount of times he doesn't take his man on, the amount of times he passes it on to someone else. Trust me, just go back and watch you'll see it. His favourite pass is to Son, 5 yards further inside than he is. He only takes his man on when there's space in behind which is great, but many, many times he receives ball and the opposition defence is already settled, those are the times doesn't take his man on and those are precisely the times we need a 1v1 dribbling to help cause chaos and panic in the pen box. It's partly why despite having so many touches in the opposition box we have so few penalties, it's because we rarely force defenders into having to commit to a challenge, instead we pass it on to the next player before that attack usually peters out. It's not just him it's the other side with Johnson as well, both are guilty of it.

The better this side gets the more we will play tightly packed defences the more a 1v1 dribbler will be needed, the more incisive the passing into the box will need to be. The better the touch and control of all the front players will need to be. Is like to just start now with the guy on the left which is a space to open and available.

 

[Lilbaz]

At the end of the day the only opinion that mattersis anges. What he wants to do with the finances available.

 

[braineclipse]

Playing really well. If we prioritise that position come the summer I think we should be able to sign someone even better, but he's proving really useful and I would like us to keep him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Of course the results are better, before we had a void. I'm not saying he's useless, I'm saying we can do better and I would prefer better.

Again if he's in addition to a bonfide starter then happy days but no I don't think he's the one for us otherwise.

Go back and watch his matches in detail, just concentrate on what he does, you'll be surprised by the amount of times he doesn't take his man on, the amount of times he passes it on to someone else. Trust me, just go back and watch you'll see it. His favourite pass is to Son, 5 yards further inside than he is. He only takes his man on when there's space in behind which is great, but many, many times he receives ball and the opposition defence is already settled, those are the times doesn't take his man on and those are precisely the times we need a 1v1 dribbling to help cause chaos and panic in the pen box. It's partly why despite having so many touches in the opposition box we have so few penalties, it's because we rarely force defenders into having to commit to a challenge, instead we pass it on to the next player before that attack usually peters out. It's not just him it's the other side with Johnson as well, both are guilty of it.

The better this side gets the more we will play tightly packed defences the more a 1v1 dribbler will be needed, the more incisive the passing into the box will need to be. The better the touch and control of all the front players will need to be. Is like to just start now with the guy on the left which is a space to open and available.

I was at the game on Sunday
He passed to someone and ran into the box and the player we had who he passed it too (think it was undohie) went backwards. The guy behind me blamed Werner for not Showing for it

I’ve seen every game he has been here other wolves. I think he takes on the players more than most

You have players like doku who do it loads but in reality has no end product

You have others who don’t and try the smart pass like Olise.

Werner is a combination of them IMO

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do love how a thread can go off topic so much but at what’s can be left polite

What I’ll throw in to this again because it’s timo related is if we choose into not to buy him, that’s gonna be anges call I’m sure so I’m fine with it

But if we don’t fix the defensive and CF issues we can can have the best player on the planet wide left and still struggle because we will be conceding too many and won’t have anyone to bang the crosses in that this player will be sending

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah but you’re forgetting they completely collapsed at this time last season. It may happen again but I don’t see it happening as they’re scoring plenty of goals and look solid at the other end. If they win 5 out of their last 7 games then they better last season’s point total. Considering how they are playing now that looks a given.

It does
And it should as they spent so much money upgrading an already decent side

 

[RunTMC]

At the end of the day the only opinion that mattersis anges. What he wants to do with the finances available.

There will be a fierce debate on here in the summer on how best to spend that money. Right now Werner is in the crosshairs. I’d love is to go big on a couple of wingers and a DM. But we have Europe next year and I can’t help but think about how we collapsed when we had injuries. Which means for example backup full backs are important. Going to be an interesting transfer window for sure

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777736415737999405

 

[Craig_J]

I think we should sign him. He offers a lot going forward. Clearly he's never gonna bea clinical finisher but I think the rest of his game justifies him being part of our squad.

Feel like he should be backup and we should try and sign someone who we feel is better with him filling in. Starting if it does not work out with whoever.

Think it will always frustrate me seeing him take on multiple players, get into a simple 1-1 situation and somehow miss the target, but if he didn't do that we never would have been able to take him on loan to begin with, and we wouldn't be able to afford to buy him.

 

[Lemonade Money]

At this point, I think we'd be mad not to sign him (unless wages are prohibitive).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think we should sign him. He offers a lot going forward. Clearly he's never gonna bea clinical finisher but I think the rest of his game justifies him being part of our squad.

Feel like he should be backup and we should try and sign someone who we feel is better with him filling in. Starting if it does not work out with whoever.

Think it will always frustrate me seeing him take on multiple players, get into a simple 1-1 situation and somehow miss the target, but if he didn't do that we never would have been able to take him on loan to begin with, and we wouldn't be able to afford to buy him.

It frustrates him too I’m sure
But then he gets in those positions because he is doing something right I guess