Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[SpursNorway]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Personally I think it would be a disaster for us...

 

[AdamB]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I keep hearing the keep Timmeh on bandwagon rolling on and on.

This worries me greatly

Where from? The majority of our fans certainly dont want him around and the way he's handled some of the players over the last 5 months, he'd hardly be an overwhelming favourite with them

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You could say though that we're just better than 3/4 of our opponents. We come out unmotivated and disorganised. Timmeh then shouts at them at half time. They come out second half, try a bit harder and our inherent quality shows through.

Remember we've not taken a point off anyone above us since Timmeh took over (we beat Everton in February, but they were 5 points behind us at that point).

I think that it is difficult to beat Tim with an unmotivated stick when the team have fought back so well under him a number of times. It also doesn't fit very well with the "run about a bit" criticism that is regularly thrown at him.

I can think of a number of games where he has made tactical changes which have made a difference, rather than just motivating the team, the Everton game springs immediately to mind.

I think that it is a shame that lot of discussion around Sherwood has been limited to muck chucking. It has been an interesting, if not particularly enjoyable period, and Sherwood has more to him than a lot of people give him credit for. I would not be surprised to see him walk into another Premiership job, I can still see him at Saudi Sportswashing Machine next season.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You could say though that we're just better than 3/4 of our opponents. We come out unmotivated and disorganised. Timmeh then shouts at them at half time. They come out second half, try a bit harder and our inherent quality shows through.

Remember we've not taken a point off anyone above us since Timmeh took over (we beat Everton in February, but they were 5 points behind us at that point).

I think this is the key for me; not once have I felt that TS has the managerial/coaching capability to get us to punch 'above our weight'. In almost every game where the opposition are not teams well below us in the table i have not once felt "oooh we could really get something out of this", "sneak a win here" or "we could grab a late winner if we hand g in there".

In fact his comments before games vs lesser teams where he says "if we put in the effort, we are better than them and so should win" smacks of a manager that actually doesn't really do tactics at all and just thinks and says to te team "we're better than them, we should beat them easy; go out there and score more goals than them."

But them when we come up against a superior team, his Liverpool actions and comments show that he hides like a scared rabbit (and would likely make the team play that way long-term).

If we kept Sherwood i'm convinced that he'd take us to the days when finishing 8 to 11th was standard. He's already being found out by the lesser teams as it is.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think this is the key for me; not once have I felt that TS has the managerial/coaching capability to get us to punch 'above our weight'. In almost every game where the opposition are not teams well below us in the table i have not once felt "oooh we could really get something out of this", "sneak a win here" or "we could grab a late winner if we hand g in there".

In fact his comments before games vs lesser teams where he says "if we put in the effort, we are better than them and so should win" smacks of a manager that actually doesn't really do tactics at all and just thinks and says to te team "we're better than them, we should beat them easy; go out there and score more goals than them."

But them when we come up against a superior team, his Liverpool actions and comments show that he hides like a scared rabbit (and would likely make the team play that way long-term).

If we kept Sherwood i'm convinced that he'd take us to the days when finishing 8 to 11th was standard. He's already being found out by the lesser teams as it is.

Performing poorly against the teams above us has been a problem all season.

I don't think that he will get a chance to prove it but it would be interesting to see how a Sherwood team would play against better opposition with players in who are better suited to his preferred way of playing.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Performing poorly against the teams above us has been a problem all season.

I don't think that he will get a chance to prove it but it would be interesting to see how a Sherwood team would play against better opposition with players in who are better suited to his preferred way of playing.

Interesting point you raise. In your opinion which players (as examples) would you see as being better suited to Sherwood's way of playing?

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Interesting point you raise. In your opinion which players (as examples) would you see as being better suited to Sherwood's way of playing?

I think that he wants players in the middle who can turn defence into attack quickly. Crudely, I think he wants us playing more like Emirates Marketing Project or Liverpool than Chelsea.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that he wants players in the middle who can turn defence into attack quickly. Crudely, I think he wants us playing more like Emirates Marketing Project or Liverpool than Chelsea.

Interesting because I think we do have such players if they are used properly and in the right system: Dembele, Paulinho even Bentaleb and Sandro. The Saudi Sportswashing Machine away game was an example of that capability imo. Some might argue Swansea away as well.

 

[ringo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think Sherwood will prove to be a successful manager over time, although probably not at Spurs as he looks almost certain to leave now.

it is difficult to judge Sherwood's potential based on this brief management spell. Especially as he inherited the squad rather then help build it. (Although he deserves some kudos for supporting the purchase of Eriksen if that is true)

On the plus side he has had us playing a more attractive style of football in some games --it is easy to forget how boring we were under AVB -but having seen it at close quarters a few times it will take some time to erase it from my memory. He is also not afraid to give younger players a chance, or be adventurous (some may say suicidal) by dropping AVB's favourite 4-2-3-1 line up.

And he did bring back Ade - a decision which at least meant we finished nearer the top than the bottom. If only AVB had been willing to do the same, it would have been interesting to see the outcome AVB's solid defence and Ade up top throughout a season.

On the negative side he is too honest for his own good. I think that comes from his experiences as a player and wanting to have a different approach to the approach of the manager's he played under - but when you are a manager/leader you need a bit of distance from the players, and frank honesty is probably not always the best policy. Plus he has had few "rabbit in the headlights" moments -but that is to be expected given the situation.

Generally, though, I like his approach. From the little gleaned so far I think his ideas about football are progressive, and it would be interesting to see what he would do with a squad of players that he had helped assemble.

If he stayed my biggest concern would be signings. Players will want ot sign for the likes of FDB and LVG -not so sure about Sherwood or Poch.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Interesting because I think we do have such players if they are used properly and in the right system: Dembele, Paulinho even Bentaleb and Sandro. The Saudi Sportswashing Machine away game was an example of that capability imo. Some might argue Swansea away as well.

Sorry glory, don't agree with that at all. I don't really know what Sherwood's preferred system of play is, nor do I care as we'll thankfully only be seeing him on our touchline for 90 more minutes (or I guess 180 if he'll be there for the testimonial as well).

To move defence quickly into attack, you need players who move the ball up the pitch quickly. Either incredibly speedy players like Bale and Lennon or quick passers like Modric. The only one who possibly falls into that category is Bentaeb imo. Dembele holds onto the ball for far too long. Paulinho......Sandro doesn't have the vision imo to quickly turn defence into attack.

It is an area of the team that needs a look imo, unless the next manager thinks Eriksen/ Holtby/ Bentaleb can be moved there on a regular basis.

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You could say though that we're just better than 3/4 of our opponents.

Which would be about right, yes? We're not better than the Top 4 this season, plus Utd. So that's 5 teams out of 20. So a rookie manager thrown in to the PL mid season has us just about where we should be. (See 'Are we fulfilling our promise' thread'...and what it would take for a club like ours to become Top 4).

He's certainly been naïve at times, both on the field and off it, which is what I expected. Given his inexperience, that apparently comes as less of shock to me than it does some others.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Which would be about right, yes? We're not better than the Top 4 this season, plus Utd. So that's 5 teams out of 20. So a rookie manager thrown in to the PL mid season has us just about where we should be. (See 'Are we fulfilling our promise' thread'...and what it would take for a club like ours to become Top 4).

He's certainly been naïve at times, both on the field and off it, which is what I expected. Given his inexperience, that apparently comes as less of shock to me than it does some others.

Your first sentence pretty much covers what someone else correctly said earlier on. He's done a decent job of steadying the ship, not ****ing things up, keeping us on the same track, whatever you want to call it. GB and some others are just determined to convince everyone that he is the worst manager that ever existed in the history of football because they don't like him.

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Your first sentence pretty much covers what someone else correctly said earlier on. He's done a decent job of steadying the ship, not ****ing things up, keeping us on the same track, whatever you want to call it. GB and some others are just determined to convince everyone that he is the worst manager that ever existed in the history of football because they don't like him.

Indeed he has, I don't believe anyone sticking up for Sherwood is suggesting he has made us overachieve but has certainly made sure league standing wise (assuming we get 6th) we have had a satisfactory season. Coming top 6 when looking at who our competitors are, and where we were going pre Sherwood is not to be sniffed at. I'm assuming that when GB keeps suggesting Sherwood's next job is going to be Swindon that's tongue in cheek, I don't believe he can be that deluded....

 

[Ryan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think Sherwood will prove to be a successful manager over time, although probably not at Spurs as he looks almost certain to leave now.

it is difficult to judge Sherwood's potential based on this brief management spell. Especially as he inherited the squad rather then help build it. (Although he deserves some kudos for supporting the purchase of Eriksen if that is true)

If we're giving him kudos for the signing of Eriksen then we would need to give him equal 'kudos' for all of our signings. He's claiming he knows nothing about our signings but he was reported as being part of our 'Transfer Committee' in his previous role. Considering his 'I don't know these players' stance, I'd be reluctant to give him credit for the one signing who has impressed that he just happened to have a hand in

On the plus side he has had us playing a more attractive style of football in some games --it is easy to forget how boring we were under AVB -but having seen it at close quarters a few times it will take some time to erase it from my memory. He is also not afraid to give younger players a chance, or be adventurous (some may say suicidal) by dropping AVB's favourite 4-2-3-1 line up.

There's a distinction for me between us being more attractive and being more entertaining. We're certainly getting more entertaining games but we're not exclusively playing a more attractive style. In fact we're not playing any specific style and we're going into games not knowing what the bloody hell might happen! I prefer this to what we had under AVB because I watch football for entertainment not results but I can't see him currently building any identity under this team

And he did bring back Ade - a decision which at least meant we finished nearer the top than the bottom. If only AVB had been willing to do the same, it would have been interesting to see the outcome AVB's solid defence and Ade up top throughout a season.

If AVB played Ade then Ade would have been complete ****e. Ade exclusively plays when he wants to and if he's got something to prove and in this case, Sherwood was handed that to him on a plate. It was right to bring him back in but I don't think it was a particularly brave or inspired decision from Tim. I certainly doubt whether Adebayor will maintain any of this form next season should he stay.

On the negative side he is too honest for his own good. I think that comes from his experiences as a player and wanting to have a different approach to the approach of the manager's he played under - but when you are a manager/leader you need a bit of distance from the players, and frank honesty is probably not always the best policy. Plus he has had few "rabbit in the headlights" moments -but that is to be expected given the situation.

The issue isn't honesty, it's arrogance. In my view Sherwood has consistently sold out the players to further his own cause. I've mentioned previously that it's far easier for Sherwood simply to dig the players out in public than try to solve tactical issues or even begin trying to rebuild the confidence in our squad. It's amazing how little the media have questioned his curious decisions and instead focused on him belittling the players.

Generally, though, I like his approach. From the little gleaned so far I think his ideas about football are progressive, and it would be interesting to see what he would do with a squad of players that he had helped assemble.

I can't fully dispute your suggestion of Sherwood being a progressive football man. Reason being I have no idea what his football ideas actually are. He's clearly not a clogger and wants us to play decent football but we have no shape, no identity and so often look completely out of ideas. If we had some semblance of a consistent gameplan then it would be easier to tell but I can't. What worries me though is that it feels we're getting through based on individual moments of brilliance rather than anything of Sherwoods doing.

If he stayed my biggest concern would be signings. Players will want ot sign for the likes of FDB and LVG -not so sure about Sherwood or Poch.

To me players come to Spurs for £££ regardless of who the manager is. Of course players might be more excited to come to us if we had a reputable manager but I doubt they will turn down us down simply because we had Sherwood in charge.

-

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

...where we were going pre Sherwood

It was hardly 2 pts 8 games, let's not overplay the hand too much.

I'm assuming that when GB keeps suggesting Sherwood's next job is going to be Swindon that's tongue in cheek, I don't believe he can be that deluded....

A decent league one club for a man with a handful of managerial experience and, presumably, still lacking his pro-license seems quite a reasonable job. That should be where he's making his mistakes, not Spurs.

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We're not exclusively playing a more attractive style.

Well, that's subjective. Whats an attractive style to you, may not be for me or others. And vice versa. Either way, by anyone's definition, not really a shock to me that a rookie manager having inherited a squad and thrown in mid season in the PL hasn't had them playing an 'attractive style' of footy yet. I'd imagine there would be more possibility of that if he were given another season with his own players, but apparently that won't happen. By the way, as far as 'attractive' I don't think its a lock that the new manager will either. Won't be at all shocked if he plays it close to the vest, especially his fist season, but we shall see. At least he will have a say in the makeup of his squad.

It was right to bring Ade back in but I don't think it was a particularly brave or inspired decision from Tim.

I don't know how 'brave or inspired' it was either. Does it have to be? The fact is, he did it.

It feels we're getting through based on individual moments of brilliance rather than anything of Sherwoods doing.

Well, he picks the team. So to an extent, he's responsible for individual moments of brilliance. And individual mistakes.

To me players come to Spurs for £££ regardless of who the manager is.

Hmmm

 

[Ryan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's very subjective. Whats an attractive style to you, may not be for me or others. And vice versa. Either way, by anyone's definition, not really a shock to me that a rookie manager having inherited a squad and thrown in mid season in the PL hasn't had them playing an 'attractive style' of footy yet. I'd imagine there would be more possibility of that if he were given another season with his own players, but apparently that won't happen. By the way, as far as 'attractive' I don't think its a lock that the new manager will either. Won't be at all shocked if he plays it close to the vest, especially his fist season, but we shall see. At least he will have a say in the makeup of his squad.

With regards to style, my problem is that we have yet to see any specific type of football being played under him. I've no idea how Sherwood prefers his football or how he is planning to make the most out of this squad. By all means he deserved patience at the start but over half a season down the line we're no closer to seeing any method. To me our squad desperately needs some structure and identity but we're not seeing one which I think is really disappointing.

I don't know how 'brave or inspired' it was either. Does it have to be? The fact is, he did it.

Just commenting generally about how much credit he's getting for 'getting the best out of Adebayor'

Well, he picks the team. So to an extent, he's responsible for individual moments of brilliance. And individual mistakes.

To be honest, I hadn't really considered the flip side of this argument. You have a point

...

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It was hardly 2 pts 8 games, let's not overplay the hand too much.


A decent league one club for a man with a handful of managerial experience and, presumably, still lacking his pro-license seems quite a reasonable job. That should be where he's making his mistakes, not Spurs.

I'm not overplaying anything, I was a supporter of AVB but there was only one way we was going with him Im afraid and that was backwards - Sherwood stopped the rot its as simple as that. I never suggested anything close to 2 from 8 but it was what it was.

Whether you think Swindon is a reasonable job for Sherwood or not, there is absolutely no chance he will be managing Swindon or anyone of that ilk next season. He will get at worst a decent Championship level side, but wouldn't be surprised to see a lower PL team go for him....

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not overplaying anything, I was a supporter of AVB but there was only one way we was going with him Im afraid and that was backwards - Sherwood stopped the rot its as simple as that. I never suggested anything close to 2 from 8 but it was what it was.

Whether you think Swindon is a reasonable job for Sherwood or not, there is absolutely no chance he will be managing Swindon or anyone of that ilk next season. He will get at worst a decent Championship level side, but wouldn't be surprised to see a lower PL team go for him....

I suspect Norwich, not only because of his ties but he would fit in there I think

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I suspect Norwich, not only because of his ties but he would fit in there I think

Somewhere like that yes, although someone suggested they will be appointing someone else? If he's really lucky perhaps a team in the PL (assuming Norwich are relegated) like West Brom perhaps? Their manager said that he isn't contracted beyond the end of this season or something....