Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

bit of revisionism here, performances under AVB this season were not consistent with last

AVB was judged and dismissed on the basis of 5 months this season

Levy gave AVB Adebayor .
AVB sidelined Adebayor .
We were not scoring enough goals and it were an embarrassing low count, resulting in a negative goal difference.
Levy got the hump with AVB's refusal to play Adebayor.
They fell out.
Big thrashings versus Emirates Marketing Project and Pool - Levy seizes the opportunity to push AVB out.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Quote Originally Posted by Pirate55 View Post
It isn't as black or white as you are trying to paint it. It isn't ALL the managers fault or NONE of the managers fault in either the case of AVB or TS. Some of the responsibility for the poor displays must lie with the players whoever the manager is.

However, there is a big BUT coming. AVB CHOSE these players, spunked over £100m on them, had 18 months to sort out tactics and a playing style, had the benefit of two pre-seasons and two foreign tours to get this bedded in and presided over some of the most turgid displays and utter humiliations in recent memory.

TS has had a squad he inherited, many disillusioned and dispirited players, a team which couldn't score for love nor money and were conceding hatfuls, a humongous injury list in the middle of a season where every game is important. Sure he has made mistakes (and I have criticized him when he has done so IMO), but you do see the difference, don't you?

Emirates Marketing Project 6-0 Tottenham

Tromsø 0-2 Tottenham
Tottenham 2-2 Man Utd
Fulham 1-2 Tottenham
Sunderland 1-2 Tottenham
Tottenham 4-1 Anzhi Makhachkala

Tottenham 0-5 Liverpool


The five games sandwiched in between the two hidings do not suggest that the players were dispirited. It didn't work out between him and the Spurs Board but to his credit, AVB didn't allow that to get in the way so as to lower the spirit of the squad.


AVB had his faults as do all managers but lack of team spirit in his time with us is just nonsense, Under him we had gained a 'never say die spirit' that were needed to be a champion. I recall many games where we kept at it until the final whistle, either hanging on to a win, or getting something out of the game at the death. We also had an away points tally that was up there with the very best during his time with us.

Disillusioned and dispirited players do not win away games.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Look, can we move on from AVB. Why is AVB even being mentioned in a Tim Sherwood thread.

Do you think its Tim Sherwood's fault that he is where he is? He's just the fall guy in this. He isn't ready for this job, by his own admission he'd probably say he didn't deserve the opportunity to be head coach at a club like Spurs.

AVB had to go, the team wasn't performing in practically any area.

Levy clearly went round his preferred targets and they all said no, for various reasons, whether that is because they had national team commitments and wanted to see out the world cup, or because they were committed to an existing club job (supposedly De Boer wants to be the first mangaer to win 4 Eiredivisie titles in a row with Ajax or whatever).

So Sherwood gets a short-term contract (he had to be given more than an end-of-season deal to have any credibility with the players).

He's not doing great, IMO, but he's certainly making a better fist of things than AVB and given his lack of experience, he's following his remit of keeping our heads above water until the end of the season.

You can say what you like about Sherwood, and I don't think he's the man to take us forward, but its a results game and he's improved output levels on all fronts, with no pre-season to properly implement his philosophy.

Really, what he's done is not rocket science, he's re-instated Adebayor and given him freedom to operate, he also gives the attacking players freedom to move out of the team shape and play earlier, more risky passes.

One thing I will say is I agree that AVB did not lose the dressing room. At least he didn't lose it completely. I believe he fell out with a few players, but this merely resulted in them not playing. Those that did play continued to follow his instructions to the letter, which was actually the problem, as we were far too rigid and we pushed far too high up the pitch against some killer counter-attacking teams like Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

Anyway, AVB has (rightly) gone and Sherwood (wrongly or rightly) is in the hotseat until the end of the season. Given the mutterings, it seems to me that it is highly unlikely that Sherwood will be the manager come the start of next season. And actually we should all hope he is, as the only way he will keep this job is by overturning either Arsenal or Liverpool and qualifying us for the CL against all odds.

If we finish 5th or below he's gone. So let's all stop bitching about it.

 

[Yossarian]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Look, can we move on from AVB. Why is AVB even being mentioned in a Tim Sherwood thread.

Do you think its Tim Sherwood's fault that he is where he is? He's just the fall guy in this. He isn't ready for this job, by his own admission he'd probably say he didn't deserve the opportunity to be head coach at a club like Spurs.

AVB had to go, the team wasn't performing in practically any area.

Levy clearly went round his preferred targets and they all said no, for various reasons, whether that is because they had national team commitments and wanted to see out the world cup, or because they were committed to an existing club job (supposedly De Boer wants to be the first mangaer to win 4 Eiredivisie titles in a row with Ajax or whatever).

So Sherwood gets a short-term contract (he had to be given more than an end-of-season deal to have any credibility with the players).

He's not doing great, IMO, but he's certainly making a better fist of things than AVB and given his lack of experience, he's following his remit of keeping our heads above water until the end of the season.

You can say what you like about Sherwood, and I don't think he's the man to take us forward, but its a results game and he's improved output levels on all fronts, with no pre-season to properly implement his philosophy.

Really, what he's done is not rocket science, he's re-instated Adebayor and given him freedom to operate, he also gives the attacking players freedom to move out of the team shape and play earlier, more risky passes.

One thing I will say is I agree that AVB did not lose the dressing room. At least he didn't lose it completely. I believe he fell out with a few players, but this merely resulted in them not playing. Those that did play continued to follow his instructions to the letter, which was actually the problem, as we were far too rigid and we pushed far too high up the pitch against some killer counter-attacking teams like Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

Anyway, AVB has (rightly) gone and Sherwood (wrongly or rightly) is in the hotseat until the end of the season. Given the mutterings, it seems to me that it is highly unlikely that Sherwood will be the manager come the start of next season. And actually we should all hope he is, as the only way he will keep this job is by overturning either Arsenal or Liverpool and qualifying us for the CL against all odds.

If we finish 5th or below he's gone. So let's all stop bitching about it.

Well said, and good to see you back.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Look, can we move on from AVB. Why is AVB even being mentioned in a Tim Sherwood thread.

AVB had to go....

he's certainly making a better fist of things than AVB

agree that AVB did not lose the dressing room.

, as we were far too rigid and we pushed far too high up the pitch

Anyway, AVB has (rightly) gone

:?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

:?

Yes, yes i know! You know the point im trying to make though

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes, yes i know! You know the point im trying to make though

that you had a lot of points to raise for discussion regarding AVB?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well said, and good to see you back.

I second this!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Emirates Marketing Project 6-0 Tottenham

Tromsø 0-2 Tottenham
Tottenham 2-2 Man Utd
Fulham 1-2 Tottenham
Sunderland 1-2 Tottenham
Tottenham 4-1 Anzhi Makhachkala

Tottenham 0-5 Liverpool


The five games sandwiched in between the two hidings do not suggest that the players were dispirited. It didn't work out between him and the Spurs Board but to his credit, AVB didn't allow that to get in the way so as to lower the spirit of the squad.


AVB had his faults as do all managers but lack of team spirit in his time with us is just nonsense, Under him we had gained a 'never say die spirit' that were needed to be a champion. I recall many games where we kept at it until the final whistle, either hanging on to a win, or getting something out of the game at the death. We also had an away points tally that was up there with the very best during his time with us.

Disillusioned and dispirited players do not win away games.

Thank you. Well said, especially the bolded bit =D>

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And I will respond again, it is TOO EARLY to form an assessment. As I have said previously, you are trying to paint it as black or white. It is not wholly the players fault or wholly the managers fault ( just as I said it wasn't whether it was TS or AVB in charge).

Nevertheless , I do feel the players have overwhelmingly underperformed. They are top international players playing at the pinnacle of the profession. Verts looks a poor shadow of the player we bought, Dembele hasn't played nearly as well for us as he did for Fulham, I find it hard to believe that Pauli is Brazils first choice given his performances for us, Soldado doesn't look like a £26m, 20 goal a season striker ...Some players cant make a simple pass to a colleague and some cant cross, shoot or even run off the ball into space. As I said, the players have overwhelmingly underperformed.

At least we've got something to discuss now...

Verts has looked a shadow, perhaps since about April. Perhaps he is suffering from having to play alongside Dawson (with his lack of pace) for too long now and teams are targeting him and Dawson in a way they didn't before? We could certainly do with having Kaboul next to Verts imo. I think Dembele was first class until Sandro's injury last January. Again, perhaps suffering fromthat and still taking time to adjust and work out his role within the midfield? Paulinho is class, of that I have no doubt. It was clear for all to see when playing for Brazil before he joined us. Perhaps just adjusting still to the PL (and Adam's tackle)? Soldado? Again he is class, but he's still adjusting to how we want him to play. Even under TS it's not always been clear how we are going to set ourselves up and how he fits into said set-up imo.
The issues of not being able to pass, cross etc has been on and off with our team for years it could be argued. I remember very turgid displays under HR even with the likes of Bale, Modric and VDV.

But what pattern are we seeing under TS? We started on the whole playing well, but since the Manure game, we have constantly started games very poorly. In fact it could be argued that our general play over 90 mins is getting worse by the game. Why is that? Is it just the time of year our players become sh1t?

 

[lurker of old]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If we finish 5th or below he's gone. So let's all stop bitching about it.

What he said!

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

that you had a lot of points to raise for discussion regarding AVB?

Well i fell into the trap of mentioning AVB a lot but hes gone so who cares move on is my point and stop.beating up sherwood hes just the caretaker

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well i fell into the trap of mentioning AVB a lot but hes gone so who cares move on is my point and stop.beating up sherwood hes just the caretaker

I have an image of him whistling with an old brown coat on walking around an unlit white hart lane.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

At least we've got something to discuss now...

Verts has looked a shadow, perhaps since about April. Perhaps he is suffering from having to play alongside Dawson (with his lack of pace) for too long now and teams are targeting him and Dawson in a way they didn't before? We could certainly do with having Kaboul next to Verts imo. I think Dembele was first class until Sandro's injury last January. Again, perhaps suffering fromthat and still taking time to adjust and work out his role within the midfield? Paulinho is class, of that I have no doubt. It was clear for all to see when playing for Brazil before he joined us. Perhaps just adjusting still to the PL (and Adam's tackle)? Soldado? Again he is class, but he's still adjusting to how we want him to play. Even under TS it's not always been clear how we are going to set ourselves up and how he fits into said set-up imo.
The issues of not being able to pass, cross etc has been on and off with our team for years it could be argued. I remember very turgid displays under HR even with the likes of Bale, Modric and VDV.

But what pattern are we seeing under TS? We started on the whole playing well, but since the Manure game, we have constantly started games very poorly. In fact it could be argued that our general play over 90 mins is getting worse by the game. Why is that? Is it just the time of year our players become sh1t?

That's the most perceptive thing you have asked. TS hasn't yet been able to develop a discernable pattern for two principal reasons IMO. First, it is far TOO EARLY ( where have you heard that before???) to judge what sort of team, style and tactics is his preferred methodology. And secondly, the humongous injury list has effectively stopped him playing the same team twice. At the moment, who can say for certain, what is his preferred best team should everyone be available and how would he set them out. Those are still unanswerable questions at present IMO.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I appreciate his honesty. Sometimes you needed a thesaurus to decipher AVB's press conference plus his raspy voice made some of his interviews unintelligible. Redknapp was sometimes too honest for his own good. I can't see us getting top 4 but even if we did I'd still be convinced that Levy will boot him out in May regardless.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I appreciate his honesty. Sometimes you needed a thesaurus to decipher AVB's press conference plus his raspy voice made some of his interviews unintelligible. Redknapp was sometimes too honest for his own good. I can't see us getting top 4 but even if we did I'd still be convinced that Levy will boot him out in May regardless.

Lol - have you just got into the stand-up circuit?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lol - have you just got into the stand-up circuit?

Come again? He had his faults but he never hid his desire to manage England or his single mindedness, it's weird that players are celebrated for it but managers are vilified.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's the most perceptive thing you have asked. TS hasn't yet been able to develop a discernable pattern for two principal reasons IMO. First, it is far TOO EARLY ( where have you heard that before???) to judge what sort of team, style and tactics is his preferred methodology. And secondly, the humongous injury list has effectively stopped him playing the same team twice. At the moment, who can say for certain, what is his preferred best team should everyone be available and how would he set them out. Those are still unanswerable questions at present IMO.

Probably due to the bleep you've spouted re AVB's last few months...but...anywaaayyyyy.....

A big fear I have in terms of pattern of style of play under TS is that there actually might not be one. I agree to an extent that it might be too early to see a definite pattern, but the fact is I don't think there has been a similarity between consecutive games in terms of our positive gameplay. It is the negative aspects of our game where a discernible pattern can be seen: very slow turgid first half performances (often staying in the game or even taking the lead against the run of play), large gaps between our CMs and the back four, often choosing not to play a DM when clearly necessary and when one is available (Bentaleb vs Capoue in certain game) et.

It's that fact that no positive gameplay pattern can be found between consecutive matches, whilst the negative patterns are usually there from game to game that is worrying. TS has been in charge for 16 games now and a little bit of a pattern in terms of our positive gameplay should start to be seen, even a little.
It suggests that we are just bouncing about getting rather lucky here and there, being heavily reliant on Ade, and are heading for a big car-crash

I just hope beyond hope that we at least beat the Goons on the 16th March[-o<

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Come again? He had his faults but he never hid his desire to manage England or his single mindedness, it's weird that players are celebrated for it but managers are vilified.

Oh you're talking about the England job thing? Oh I thought you were talking about Harry being 'too honest for his own good' in general....

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Probably due to the bleep you've spouted re AVB's last few months...but...anywaaayyyyy.....

A big fear I have in terms of pattern of style of play under TS is that there actually might not be one. I agree to an extent that it might be too early to see a definite pattern, but the fact is I don't think there has been a similarity between consecutive games in terms of our positive gameplay. It is the negative aspects of our game where a discernible pattern can be seen: very slow turgid first half performances (often staying in the game or even taking the lead against the run of play), large gaps between our CMs and the back four, often choosing not to play a DM when clearly necessary and when one is available (Bentaleb vs Capoue in certain game) et.

It's that fact that no positive gameplay pattern can be found between consecutive matches, whilst the negative patterns are usually there from game to game that is worrying. TS has been in charge for 16 games now and a little bit of a pattern in terms of our positive gameplay should start to be seen, even a little.
It suggests that we are just bouncing about getting rather lucky here and there, being heavily reliant on Ade, and are heading for a big car-crash

I just hope beyond hope that we at least beat the Goons on the 16th March[-o<

No, it doesnt suggest anything of the sort. It just suggests that your own biased viewpoint sees it that way. It rather seems that you are somehow hoping for TS to fail to somehow justify your support for the previous manager. Let me allow you into a secret - your man aint coming back. The sooner you understand that the better. His departure will not make a jot of difference to whether TS is a failure or success. As I keep trying to emphasise, it is too early to judge him. He may be a success or he may be a failure. But a handful of games in the middle of the season with a bagful of injuries is not the best time to judge a coaches abilities or otherwise. In the meantime, it wouldnt hurt to get behind the team and show some support - not just say we are headed for a car crash and that you only hope we "at least" beat the Goons.

We are up against Chelscum next and you are forecasting a win in the OMT!!! How inconsistent is that?