• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Thomas Frank - Head Coach

MartyFunkhouser said:
No doubt, stylistically two different managers, but we would have to stomach a project still, regardless off back and forth on here I doubt this support base has the stomach for it, not seen anything that suggests they would. Love the be proven wrong and we actually give someone time and money to create sustained success
Click to expand...

I absolutely have the stomach for a 'project' which would carry that style and approach. I'd have given the bloke who won a trophy more time personally, but everyone measures patience versus reward differently of course...
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think most fans can see the wood for the trees, and appreciate Frank needs time and he lacks settled ready-made attacking players.

But then there are some illogical whinging fans who don’t want Frank full stop. They correlate with those who wanted Ange to stay on. So rather than give the new man a fair crack, they are more into being right than supporting the side.

When the team get zhit during the game is it any wonder they lack confidence to make simple passes?
Click to expand...

Why do you make these sorts of statements?
Why do you not only present aggressive judgemental opinions, but then couch them as 'facts'?
Look, if you want to make sure you have the gold 'I Supported You Thomas' badge should it all work out, don't worry, you have it and will be noted as such.
 
thfcsteff said:
Why do you make these sorts of statements?
Why do you not only present aggressive judgemental opinions, but then couch them as 'facts'?
Look, if you want to make sure you have the gold 'I Supported You Thomas' badge should it all work out, don't worry, you have it and will be noted as such.
Click to expand...
Dude he was the same with Ange, he's just Mr Positive. It's nothing specific to Frank.
 
I like Frank as a person and don't like the abuse he's receiving. The football for the most part has been pretty bad and hopefully will improve with a few signings and returning players. I was all for Ange getting a 3rd season but can see the rationale for changing the manager.
Personally I don't see Frank doing that well with us, obviously I hope he does and proves himself to be a top manager over the next few seasons. The 12-24 month change of manger has to stop at some point.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Nonsense I’m afraid.

Ange had much more time before fans made a judgement call.

Unlike you, most fans can see that the issues are a lack of players in attack. We only have the cover players available in attack now. And unlike you, fans can see the good work Frank has been doing with Odobert getting him playing well. Tell too possibly. But we need some patience and the next flurry of games is going to be tough with such limited attacking personnel. Richi is ragged, and we will rely on some young players to step up. Personally I’m up for that. Knowing that we might not win.

All of your horse shoe nonsense and belief that Frank tells the side not to attack isn’t the case. When we had the energy we played in a progressive way. But you’re too blinkered and fixated with being right to see the wood for the trees.

Hopefully we sign another attacking player and get Solanke back in a groove.
Click to expand...

If you changed that first line to say 'lack of progressive passing midfielders' then I'd be in total agreement.

The 'horse-shoe nonsense'? How many times do we go side to side and up the sides? Or is that 'imagination'?

Again, (and this seems to be something you either refuse to acknowledge because you haven't registered it, or refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't fit your narratives), the style we are currently deploying (no progression through the middle areas of the pitch, no attempt to pass through the middle, and seemingly no rustle of transfer activity to suggest we are looking for such players) is either one you enjoy or one you don't.

Look, give him all the time you want, it comes down to whether you want that style at this club or not. Where we possibly differ, is that I do think you believe TF will develop into a manager who can coach, and will use, a more attractive style. I have yet to see evidence of that in his Premier League career. This has nothing to do with whether he's a 'good' manager or not (only a fool would deny he's not a good managher - his work at Brentford was great) it is about whether you want that at this club. As I have taken great care to express, I actually have sympathy for him. That does not mean I am enjoying the football; it is possible for both feelings to exist at the same time.
 
thfcsteff said:
If you changed that first line to say 'lack of progressive passing midfielders' then I'd be in total agreement.

The 'horse-shoe nonsense'? How many times do we go side to side and up the sides? Or is that 'imagination'?

Again, (and this seems to be something you either refuse to acknowledge because you haven't registered it, or refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't fit your narratives), the style we are currently deploying (no progression through the middle areas of the pitch, no attempt to pass through the middle, and seemingly no rustle of transfer activity to suggest we are looking for such players) is either one you enjoy or one you don't.

Look, give him all the time you want, it comes down to whether you want that style at this club or not. Where we possibly differ, is that I do think you believe TF will develop into a manager who can coach, and will use, a more attractive style. I have yet to see evidence of that in his Premier League career. This has nothing to do with whether he's a 'good' manager or not (only a fool would deny he's not a good managher - his work at Brentford was great) it is about whether you want that at this club. As I have taken great care to express, I actually have sympathy for him. That does not mean I am enjoying the football; it is possible for both feelings to exist at the same time.
Click to expand...

Our most often used route to the final third was via the wide areas under Ange too mate. Plenty of crosses too (12th most this season vs 8th last season)

I know it's been given a name on here recently as a way to knock the manager but it's nothing new.
 
billyiddo said:
I've been looking at some of our passing networks from last season, to see if i have been misremembering how we played, and it shows our build up play coming primarily through the wide positions with the central midfielders mostly playing the ball out to that area of the pitch, rather than through the middle. This idea our central midfielders were playing line breaking creative passes regularly before Frank arrived doesn't stand up to scrutiny*

*based on the handful of random games I checked
Click to expand...

We (as we all know hahahaha) played a higher line and (as we all know hahaha) took greater risks with the FBs via the inversion, so via the press and risks taken, we ended up creating more. I think it's a fair point that we have no Maddison this season, however I have a huge issue with a football directorship that looked at Maddison at the start of last season and thought he'd be ever-present; I said in August 2024 we'd be lucky to see him play more than 25 games in the season.

I accept that Frank very obviously wanted MGW, and this player would've been a great addition; we fudged it up. Obviously not on TF. Not that MGW is like for like Madders, but he is a presence in the middle of the pitch. However we just do not seem to be profiling midfieders who enjoy the attacking middle areas of the pitch.

At this moment, Frank is in a tough moment and it is hard not to feel sympathetic. I expect a cagey and defensive performance tomorrow night, designed to not lose and hopefully nick more. Our board is silent, Vinai (who previously seemed to be a more media/optical chairman) has gone into a bunker, Lange is doubtless just trying to tread water and find someone who wants to come here right now, I am convinced Paratici is not supportive of Frank, thus Thomas is fighting a lonely battle right now. It blows!
 
billyiddo said:
You're right, I've been back and checked.

I maintain though, having been through the passing maps, the common theme is that the passing from central midfield was out to the wide players - very little by way of vertical passing from the central midfielders, Bentancur included. Given the argument is regarding the horshoe effect of the current setup and that our central midfielders should be/are capable of playing through the middle of the pitch im yet to see evidence of that - progressive passes and so on do not differentiate between passes out wide vs through the middle.
Click to expand...

I think it comes down to approach. Risk or no risk. Postecoglu encouraged risk whenever there was a chance of a goal scoring opportunity. Thomas encourages safety unless there's a high-percentage chance of a goal scoring opportunity. Of course this all adds further scrutiny to our recruitment over the years/ @Bishop 's main issue, and one which I think many of us agree with. As for that issue, I think it goes back to not finding the extra few quid somewhere in the sofa to pay Mane, instead tossing N'jie into the mix, but best we don't go that far back LOL!!!
 
billyiddo said:
Our most often used route to the final third was via the wide areas under Ange too mate. Plenty of crosses too (12th most this season vs 8th last season)

I know it's been given a name on here recently as a way to knock the manager but it's nothing new.
Click to expand...

I think it's a really interesting discussion and one I addressed probably just above this. I think the main difference is where that happens on the pitch. Under Postecoglu, whilst we were often frustrated, we were consistently bringing the game to people and would end up side-to-side as teama sat in deep and challenged our lock-picking/took us for a day out on counters. This season we are often the side sitting deep and looking to draw the press on so as we can counter. But again, interesting discussion...
 
thfcsteff said:
I think it comes down to approach. Risk or no risk. Postecoglu encouraged risk whenever there was a chance of a goal scoring opportunity. Thomas encourages safety unless there's a high-percentage chance of a goal scoring opportunity. Of course this all adds further scrutiny to our recruitment over the years/ @Bishop 's main issue, and one which I think many of us agree with. As for that issue, I think it goes back to not finding the extra few quid somewhere in the sofa to pay Mane, instead tossing N'jie into the mix, but best we don't go that far back LOL!!!
Click to expand...

The discussion here was relating to our midfielders and our ability/non-ability to play progressively through the middle - often with references to previous seasons as an example of how they can do it, but I don't think we have seen that - we attacked more and created more but little of that came through the middle. We were turgid under Conte with Bentancur & Hojberg, and we attacked via the wide areas under Ange & now Frank - there's no real evidence of our current crop of (deep) midfielders playing how we want them to with any degree of consistencey or quality.

Hopefully the more that Gray & Bergvall develop they can start to influence things in the middle - a more established player signed in the market would be preferable as the youngsters need time and will naturally be more hit and miss - something we can't afford if we're demanding performances
 
thfcsteff said:
We (as we all know hahahaha) played a higher line and (as we all know hahaha) took greater risks with the FBs via the inversion, so via the press and risks taken, we ended up creating more. I think it's a fair point that we have no Maddison this season, however I have a huge issue with a football directorship that looked at Maddison at the start of last season and thought he'd be ever-present; I said in August 2024 we'd be lucky to see him play more than 25 games in the season.

I accept that Frank very obviously wanted MGW, and this player would've been a great addition; we fudged it up. Obviously not on TF. Not that MGW is like for like Madders, but he is a presence in the middle of the pitch. However we just do not seem to be profiling midfieders who enjoy the attacking middle areas of the pitch.

At this moment, Frank is in a tough moment and it is hard not to feel sympathetic. I expect a cagey and defensive performance tomorrow night, designed to not lose and hopefully nick more. Our board is silent, Vinai (who previously seemed to be a more media/optical chairman) has gone into a bunker, Lange is doubtless just trying to tread water and find someone who wants to come here right now, I am convinced Paratici is not supportive of Frank, thus Thomas is fighting a lonely battle right now. It blows!
Click to expand...

Were we not going for triple depth though with Madds, Kulu and MGW? That obviously became Xavi but is the same thing.

I could easily build a case that we could play Kulu, Madds and Xavi in the same 4-2-3-1 system ahead of a double pivot like Bents / Gray. That would require the attacking width from the full-backs like Poch had it.

We'd then be accused of being midfield heavy would be my guess.
 
billyiddo said:
The discussion here was relating to our midfielders and our ability/non-ability to play progressively through the middle - often with references to previous seasons as an example of how they can do it, but I don't think we have seen that - we attacked more and created more but little of that came through the middle. We were turgid under Conte with Bentancur & Hojberg, and we attacked via the wide areas under Ange & now Frank - there's no real evidence of our current crop of midfielders playing how we want them to with any degree of consistencey or quality.
Click to expand...

When Maddison and Deki were fit, Ange absolutely looked to use the middle of the pitch/channels as well as the width. You're not wrong of course to point out that Ange liked wide players (he wanted Neto when he first came in - didn't get him). Conte (and Mou) set-up solely to feed the legends, so agreed there. I think last season, between the injuries to the CBs and Maddison's in/out injury appearance record he suffered. It would be something I think applies to Frank to an extent, and in mitigation of what you and others hacve said regarding their absences, until we see what TF would do style-wise with such players fit, it might be unfair to judge. Personally, I can only say that I have seen no evidence that beyoind their raw quality, TF would use them in their more 'progressive' styles. But again, it might well be unfair to judge; I concede that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back