Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Gutter Boy]

I mean that's a big call. I think of where Eriksen was at Kulu's age, which for us was 2015/16 and 2016/17 and he was consistently dominating and running games, dictating the play. I haven't seen that level from Kulu on a consistent basis yet and he's older than Eriksen was when he was doing it week in, week out.

Eriksen was playing in a rising successful team. We've been crap for the past 6 years, but now seem poised to start flying again.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don't think he would be behind Maddison. Maddison goes from unplayable to anonymous (sometimes in the same game), while Kulu never hides and tries to drive the game forward while not as technically good as him.

Position is up for grabs for me, Maddison would actually have to start creating a lot more for him to undroppable.

If I was Frank, I'd even give Donley the target of displacing Maddison in pre-season (to be Kulu's rotation). I like Maddison, but he does flatter to deceive.

 

[Jordinho]

View attachment 19885
also previously - benrahma, watkins, maupay and toney

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even m,ore amazing considering their wages !

They bring in players from lesser leagues/lower divisions on low wages and unlike us don't give them massive new deals as soon as they've had a good season. It's a risk they're willing to take and part of why Toney took the Saudi offer, he'd been one of the PL's best players while making championship money.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Eriksen was playing in a rising successful team. We've been crap for the past 6 years, but now seem poised to start flying again.

We will see. We've been flying in some periods. During Ange's first 10 games it was largely Maddison stealing the show and running games consistently before he got that injury in the infamous Chelsea game. I don't think Kulusevski has ever shown the same potential as Eriksen or even Maddison has in spells. I happen to think Maddison is the better player. In that his ceiling of performance is higher. When he's on it there's nobody else in the squad that can do what he does. Don't get me wrong, i rate Deki, but I'm not going to sit here and overrate him either. He needs to kick on fast to get near where you're playing him.

 

[Raziel]

Whether it has come up in debate before or not (and it definitely HAS) I think there are two things:

Just like the wage budget can be lower because we’re in a cycle of younger players starting their careers with us, transfer net spend can be higher because we’re in a cycle of refreshing the squad. It’s much of a muchness.

I think rather than argue that wage budget has never come up as a point of contention, I’d like to see the debate on the merits of the topic. Otherwise it’s playing the man and not the ball. And the fact is that our wage spend total and to turnover ratio are lower RELATIVE to other clubs in the league we supposedly hope to compete with. And I don’t see how it can be credibly argued that it doesn’t hobble us in the transfer market, and ultimately hobble us from pushing on from the position we’ve been in for a long time now.

I really think Frank is perfect for the club’s strategy, so I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do. Although I do have a side point around maybe too much alignment could be a problem? Eg sometimes you need someone challenging other’s ideas otherwise your own weaknesses are everyone’s weaknesses? So alignment vs complementary fit is an interesting thing to think through. But I do think based on our wage strategy he’s a great appointment.

Wages matter, in the context of total & net spend, in the context of current squad composition, in the context of what others are doing

- Our total and net spend is up and competitive to anyone except City & Chelsea
- In the past 3 years, senior players like Kane, Lloris, Dier, PEH (yes, technicall loan), Perisic have moved on mostly be replaced by players like Vic, VDV, Bergvall, Gray, all on much lower wages
- The entire industry is moving to lower wages, the most successful club in European if not world football (Real Madrid) is at a 44% wage/turnover and is even reducing/limiting their spend to younger profile players (prime age players they get on frees)

I think the fact that we managed to keep Lloris, Kane, Son, and others through their prime (really you have to go back about 13 years for us to be losing players we wanted to keep), shows that our wages are competitive.

To push on, will we likely need to increase it? yes, of course, but in and of itself, without context, it's just another narrative stick.

 

[parklane1]

If I was Frank, I'd even give Donley the target of displacing Maddison in pre-season (to be Kulu's rotation). I like Maddison, but he does flatter to deceive.

Do agree about Maddison, on his day he can be terrific but as you say far too often he disapears and he has been like that at his previous clubs.

 

[Yiddo]

We will see. We've been flying in some periods. During Ange's first 10 games it was largely Maddison stealing the show and running games consistently before he got that injury in the infamous Chelsea game. I don't think Kulusevski has ever shown the same potential as Eriksen or even Maddison has in spells. I happen to think Maddison is the better player. In that his ceiling of performance is higher. When he's on it there's nobody else in the squad that can do what he does. Don't get me wrong, i rate Deki, but I'm not going to sit here and overrate him either. He needs to kick on fast to get near where you're playing him.

Kulu has to play quickly to be effective but when he plays out wide he relies to much on little flicks and tricks and a lot of the time they don’t pay off. He also holds onto it too much and runs into dead ends when out on the wing. As a 10 and playing quickly he is top notch but he is just as inconsistent as Maddison.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I was underwhelmed when I heard we were interested in Frank but I’ve given it some thought and we tend to do better when we go for managers who aren’t necessarily high profile. Its blown up in our faces when we went for Conte and Jose, yes we got top 4 and a cup final respectively but neither manager had any longevity.

 

[Robbo]

View attachment 19885
also previously - benrahma, watkins, maupay and toney

 

[Raziel]

I was underwhelmed when I heard we were interested in Frank but I’ve given it some thought and we tend to do better when we go for managers who aren’t necessarily high profile. Its blown up in our faces when we went for Conte and Jose, yes we got top 4 and a cup final respectively but neither manager had any longevity.

Well, the other issue is everyone is asking for consistency, long term, yet our last few managers -> Ange, Conte, Jose have no history of staying at a club more than 2 years, yet we are surprised when they move on (or self destruct?)

Picking a mature, stable manager who has shown a willingness to stay at a club for 6 years is a potential option.

 

[johnola]

You thought Sessegnon was in an unnatural position as left-wing back??
Agree re Emerson

Had me scratching my head too.

 

[alekaras]

Me too, he sounds good. The problem is I've been reading these 'After reading up more on this guy I'm confident he's the man' comments for almost every managerial appointment I've seen for years. They always seem great, until they aren't.

Cautiously optimistic, I don't doubt we will have a decent enough first season. The problem always seems to arrive in the second season, so lets see. Fingers crossed....

I think with Frank the challenge will be the first season until he gets his principles through. I'm pretty confident he will do much better in his second season. He's not getting found out, that's for sure.

 

[alekaras]

So far I think this is the most unified positive reaction to a managerial hire I can remember in a long time. Or somewhere between moderately to highly positive about him. Very few real negative reactions.

Perhaps says a bit about Frank, but I also think it's partially because we just won the EL as well.

Bit early to say much about expectations for this season for me.

Not so much because we won the EL, but mostly because we were such a train wreck in the league. Add to that the fact that Frank is bringing the pragmatism and adaptability that even the most ardent Ange supporters have been craving and you can see why the reaction is so positive.

 

[alekaras]

Some more Frank content. I like how he talks to the players, but then again I haven't seen how other managers do their training. Maybe it's the same with almost all of them.

 

[thfcsteff]

Whether it has come up in debate before or not (and it definitely HAS) I think there are two things:

Just like the wage budget can be lower because we’re in a cycle of younger players starting their careers with us, transfer net spend can be higher because we’re in a cycle of refreshing the squad. It’s much of a muchness.

I think rather than argue that wage budget has never come up as a point of contention, I’d like to see the debate on the merits of the topic. Otherwise it’s playing the man and not the ball. And the fact is that our wage spend total and to turnover ratio are lower RELATIVE to other clubs in the league we supposedly hope to compete with. And I don’t see how it can be credibly argued that it doesn’t hobble us in the transfer market, and ultimately hobble us from pushing on from the position we’ve been in for a long time now.

I really think Frank is perfect for the club’s strategy, so I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do. Although I do have a side point around maybe too much alignment could be a problem? Eg sometimes you need someone challenging other’s ideas otherwise your own weaknesses are everyone’s weaknesses? So alignment vs complementary fit is an interesting thing to think through. But I do think based on our wage strategy he’s a great appointment.

As ever an excellent post.

I wish there wasn't this 'binary' assumption that an observation on wages paid is immediately a slam on Levy and co. As you said, the facts are what they are. And as a club, we operate as we do. It has been excellent for us in many ways, it has also seen us make market decisions at times which edge to prudence over dare. I don't think anybody is under the illusion that IF you want to sign an Eze, you need to NOT sign a couple of others (same pot, etc) and I think the facts are that when faced with that situation, we will usually re-sign a loaned 170k a week but 'free' Werner and a promising young talent in Odobert than make a deal like the Eze one. We would always rather make sure there's a potential high-sale-young-asset in such situations. Look, Odobert might become a magician worth 100 million (i am doubtful personally) and again, for the way we operate as a club, more fool anyone for being surprised.

I think in that regard, Frank is possibly the most form-fitted manager ENIC have hired since Poch (and more so given his track-record in skillful prudence). So in that sense we are making a great decision.

However, I think expectations have to be managed. And given we just won a trophy, that bit is going to be tough for a lot of people IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well, the other issue is everyone is asking for consistency, long term, yet our last few managers -> Ange, Conte, Jose have no history of staying at a club more than 2 years, yet we are surprised when they move on (or self destruct?)

Picking a mature, stable manager who has shown a willingness to stay at a club for 6 years is a potential option.

Never surprised at the departures of Mourinho and Conte, absolutely flabbergasted that we ever went for them and that some of us (I include myself in the case of Conte) thought that perhaps Levy had learned and would not have hired them without acquiescing to their requirements.

 

[braineclipse]

Kulu has to play quickly to be effective but when he plays out wide he relies to much on little flicks and tricks and a lot of the time they don’t pay off. He also holds onto it too much and runs into dead ends when out on the wing. As a 10 and playing quickly he is top notch but he is just as inconsistent as Maddison.

Agreed. Whereas Maddison can play at different speeds and even help set the tempo.

Kulusevski needs someone to act as a deeper playmaker behind him. Maddison can drop into that role.

Kulusevski obviously has more of a physical presence that we've sometimes missed without him and an absolute abundance of energy that Maddison doesn't have.

They're dissimilar enough that we really need options for their qualities, if not directly in that #10 role. Particularly with Maddison being somewhat injury prone and often in need of rotation.

Both could be massive under Frank imo. But Maddison more of a key player, unless we get more players in with similar creativity, ability to play at different speeds, playmaker deeper etc. But for sure if Kulusevski can find the form he's had at his best and do that more consistently, and I think he can under Frank, he too can be massive for us.

 

[braineclipse]

As ever an excellent post.

I wish there wasn't this 'binary' assumption that an observation on wages paid is immediately a slam on Levy and co. As you said, the facts are what they are. And as a club, we operate as we do. It has been excellent for us in many ways, it has also seen us make market decisions at times which edge to prudence over dare. I don't think anybody is under the illusion that IF you want to sign an Eze, you need to NOT sign a couple of others (same pot, etc) and I think the facts are that when faced with that situation, we will usually re-sign a loaned 170k a week but 'free' Werner and a promising young talent in Odobert than make a deal like the Eze one. We would always rather make sure there's a potential high-sale-young-asset in such situations. Look, Odobert might become a magician worth 100 million (i am doubtful personally) and again, for the way we operate as a club, more fool anyone for being surprised.

I think in that regard, Frank is possibly the most form-fitted manager ENIC have hired since Poch (and more so given his track-record in skillful prudence). So in that sense we are making a great decision.

However, I think expectations have to be managed. And given we just won a trophy, that bit is going to be tough for a lot of people IMO.

Fully agreed on managing expectations. And with our still fairly young squad letting Frank do his thing with developing players and getting the most out of what he has and gets.

I could see a player like Odobert absolutely thrive and grow under Frank. Different player, but similar to Mbuemo at Brentford.

For me we 100% need that prudent long term thinking to keep going. Question is can/should we also push the boat out for an Eze, Mbuemo or similar type signing. Yes, if the circumstances are right. But that will still be a rare thing.

 

[thfcsteff]

Fully agreed on managing expectations. And with our still fairly young squad letting Frank do his thing with developing players and getting the most out of what he has and gets.

I could see a player like Odobert absolutely thrive and grow under Frank. Different player, but similar to Mbuemo at Brentford.

For me we 100% need that prudent long term thinking to keep going. Question is can/should we also push the boat out for an Eze, Mbuemo or similar type signing. Yes, if the circumstances are right. But that will still be a rare thing.

Oh absolutely, we're on the path and we need to stick with it.
The second question is really interesting. IF we were sticking with the previous manager, I'd have said absolutely yes as this would've been the moment to launch forward and rocket towards a huge greater potential goal. Given the circumstances, I'd be more inclined to continue as we do TBH. Mbuemo is a fine player but the wages he's asking, plus the fee? Absurd IMO...a player I'd like to see from Brentford is Damsgaard!

 

[JerusalemMan]

Fully agreed on managing expectations. And with our still fairly young squad letting Frank do his thing with developing players and getting the most out of what he has and gets.

I could see a player like Odobert absolutely thrive and grow under Frank. Different player, but similar to Mbuemo at Brentford.

For me we 100% need that prudent long term thinking to keep going. Question is can/should we also push the boat out for an Eze, Mbuemo or similar type signing. Yes, if the circumstances are right. But that will still be a rare thing.

I wonder how long it will take Frank and his coaches to really make a proper assessment of all the players at their disposal. Of course they can look at stats and videos in the off-season but face-to-face training will mean so much, along with the responses to tasks and trials within sessions.