Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[harr1984]

Amazing how most ex pro footballers are calling it and others are in the same bed as O'Hara ( know he is an ex pro)

There are plenty of ex footballers out there criticising Frank too? If with the squad we have we were playing better football and were sitting say 7th in the table, no one would be batting an eyelid and be saying 'Wow, Frank has us punching with the players he has at his disposal'. It would have been very much seen as par for the course.

The quality (or lack of) regarding our players is being over egged to suit not putting blame at the managers door. I'm all for giving Frank time, but responsibility does lie at his door aswell....

 

[Mabspurs]

So then you could apply this theory to most of our coaches and none of them should have been sacked. Or Mourinho should have done a great job because of how predecessor Poch did here right?

The fact is there is no magic formula for managers at our level. It is easier for as Brighton/Brentford to outperform consistently, notice that they seldom reach the top 6 come the end of the season. Whereas the big 6 have drop offs for a couple of seasons if not longer, because to maintain the level and expectations of a Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U or even Spurs is totally different to getting the best out of resources at a Brighton/Brentford. And that's not being dismissive of how well run those clubs are, it's just the reality....

No!

Whether it is because he was an exceptionally outstanding coach (as some have asserted; not so sure myself) or because he was exceptionally lucky to stumble across a group of excellent players - many world class during his time - led by a once in a century exponent of the most difficult art in football: goal scoring; or maybe a bit of both.... the Poch era was the exception to four decades of mediocrity (with an arguable blip during Redknapp)....

Poch certainly did NOT "reflect the quality of the institutions around them him". By the time he left, the defensive core of Walker, Rose, Toby and Verts as well as the midfield hub of Eriksen, Dembele and Alli had either gone or were way past their Poch prime. And they were not replaced in any adequate way, as we reverted back to mean!

Indeed the Poch/Mourinho experience is actually a great validation of the theory....

 

[Mabspurs]

There are plenty of ex footballers out there criticising Frank too? If with the squad we have we were playing better football and were sitting say 7th in the table, no one would be batting an eyelid and be saying 'Wow, Frank has us punching with the players he has at his disposal'. It would have been very much seen as par for the course.

The quality (or lack of) regarding our players is being over egged to suit not putting blame at the managers door. I'm all for giving Frank time, but responsibility does lie at his door aswell....

Who? The loser that was and remains.... Ramon Vega???!!! Who else? List them please.

And then list those - like Daws, who knows the club better than you, me and most others - who are pointing the finger at the quality he has to work with....

 

[Bishop]

Amazing how most ex pro footballers are calling it and others are in the same bed as O'Hara ( know he is an ex pro)

It's not really a difficult judgement to make. We all have eyes, they just don't all have Spurs specs on.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

There are plenty of ex footballers out there criticising Frank too? If with the squad we have we were playing better football and were sitting say 7th in the table, no one would be batting an eyelid and be saying 'Wow, Frank has us punching with the players he has at his disposal'. It would have been very much seen as par for the course.

The quality (or lack of) regarding our players is being over egged to suit not putting blame at the managers door. I'm all for giving Frank time, but responsibility does lie at his door aswell....

Absolutely bang on it mate. This hammering of the squad like it’s a relegation standard is embarrassing!

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

The quality (or lack of) regarding our players is being over egged to suit not putting blame at the managers door. I'm all for giving Frank time, but responsibility does lie at his door aswell....

I was half joking BTW

But to answer this, I don't think there is anyone that doesn't think that, he needs to do better but the squads rancid, even more so now

 

[Mabspurs]

Absolutely bang on it mate. This hammering of the squad like it’s a relegation standard is embarrassing!

You may not want to hear it but what do you call a squad that finished 17th in a season where the three relegated teams had all been just promoted and were horribly out of their depth? Where we would have been relegated if any one of them had done what Sunderland are doing this year? What do you call that mate????

A squad which is EXACTLY the same this year... Kudus for Son; abysmal Simon and Muani who are completed ineffective (until now) yet (especially the former) seem to get free passes for being totally anonymous. We are actually worse because the three most important creative players - Dom/Madders/Kulu - who were the main reason we did not finish 18th, have been out injured all season.

What is embarrassing is the delusion of so many fans who have put on blinkers and refuse to see the wood from the trees.... supposedly because we are "Spurs" and scape-goat the manager to try and sustain that illusion.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Absolutely bang on it mate. This hammering of the squad like it’s a relegation standard is embarrassing!

No one is saying its relegation standard but between the quality and injuries is poor. We have two RBs playing both FB roles, thats not good enough, we have an injury list longer than the cast of Ben Hur and those that are meant to be senior players like Romero, VDV and Vicario are making a vert array of school boy mistakes. The rest is patch work of prospects and players like Richy who hasn't been good enough for any manager long term. Xavi looks decent, gets himself a 3 game ban, much needed right? Add it all together which is what we are facing and its an utter mess

We might be 3/4 places better as a team than we are showing, but anything else is delusion or people just willingly putting their head in the sand.

If we finish 7th this season, I think thats par for the season and context of everything. I will judge Frank on that

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

You may not want to hear it but what do you call a squad that finished 17th in a season where the three relegated teams had all been just promoted and were horribly out of their depth? Where we would have been relegated if any one of them had done what Sunderland are doing this year? What do you call that mate????

A squad which is EXACTLY the same this year... Kudus for Son; abysmal Simon and Muani who are completed ineffective (until now) yet (especially the former) seem to get free passes for being totally anonymous. We are actually worse because the three most important creative players - Dom/Madders/Kulu - who were the main reason we did not finish 18th, have been out injured all season.

What is embarrassing is the delusion of so many fans who have put on blinkers and refuse to see the wood from the trees.... supposedly because we are "Spurs" and scape-goat the manager to try and sustain that illusion.

Mate, random people on the internet shouting the sky is falling makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to what I think of the situation, no matter how many times it’s get repeated or how exaggerated the claims get!

 

[Mabspurs]

Mate, random people on the internet shouting the sky is falling makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to what I think of the situation, no matter how many times it’s get repeated or how exaggerated the claims get!

Sure... call it out as "project fear".... as is often the case when unpalatable facts are stated that go against an agenda....

But to each, his own I guess....

 

[harr1984]

You may not want to hear it but what do you call a squad that finished 17th in a season where the three relegated teams had all been just promoted and were horribly out of their depth? Where we would have been relegated if any one of them had done what Sunderland are doing this year? What do you call that mate????

A squad which is EXACTLY the same this year... Kudus for Son; abysmal Simon and Muani who are completed ineffective (until now) yet (especially the former) seem to get free passes for being totally anonymous. We are actually worse because the three most important creative players - Dom/Madders/Kulu - who were the main reason we did not finish 18th, have been out injured all season.

What is embarrassing is the delusion of so many fans who have put on blinkers and refuse to see the wood from the trees.... supposedly because we are "Spurs" and scape-goat the manager to try and sustain that illusion.

Last season the masses were claiming 17th was nowhere near where we should be with this set of players and because of it Ange had to go - that 17th place finish sure seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting now.

Having acquired Kudus, Palhinha, Simons, Muani, at the expense of a declining Son it's a bit of a stretch to say the squad is exactly the same. Have you ever bothered to consider that had the likes of Simons and Muani, two players who have shown attacking quality in past seasons gone to teams who actually set up to play football they wouldn't be so ineffective?

Trying to absolve the manger and put it all on the players being poor is nonsense. Sure if we want to be top 4 we could do with some better players/some star quality but it can also be true that with what we have the manager could and should have us doing better than we currently are....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Reading this and other threads on here I couldn't help but think there seems to be a whole bunch of revisionism coming from a lot of people on here regarding the quality of our squad and what they expected from us this year.

I wondered how I could try to show that without having to trawl through every message in every thread back in June/July/August and then remembered that we always have a poll at the start of the season asking what peoples expectations are. I went and found it and here are the results:

Qualify for CL: 20 votes (LutonSpurs, thfcsteff, Baleforce, Trixster, indospurs, GutterBoy, Lakey, spurrrr, Robspur12, NLS, Junior19, JerusalemMan, Surfless, IulianSteaua, OleBoot, alekaras, afsoc4life, spanishspur, veryoldspur, parj)

Qualify for Europa League: 51 votes (tw12yid, monkeybarry, Yiddo, spurspinter1, ledley's knee injections, Jordinho, metalgear, Bedfordspurs, lurker of old, El Dante, Dave T316, RunTMC, Raziel, The Fatman, P.D., Bullet, billyiddo, tommysvr, Aldo, Outrance, Juicebox, K.D.D.D.D.Soc, FatBloke, parklane1, nelto, stinkfoot, Daisuk, dingdongo, Gazza Dazzla SpurMeUp, demotw, Bishop, kb 1984, richie_spur, IulianSteaua, Transylvanian, glasgowspur, Kandi1977, alekaras, Tristan Barnett, DubSpur, NoLimits01, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Chutz, kendoddsdadsdog, Push and run, fido 1982, Somerset Spurs, parj, BrentwoodSpur)

Win a trophy: 23 votes (monkeybarry, Yiddo, fernadez, markysimmo, The Fatman, GutterBoy, superspurs, Juicebox, Modrical, SteveAWOL, NLS, spuringh, Junior19, kb 1984, totalspurs, Gazza, Surfless, Tristan Barnett, afsoc4life, spanishspur, Lilbaz, SpiderSpurs, BrentwoodSpur)

Top 8: 36 votes (tw12yid, mudshark, Lost Mango, lurker of old, El Dante, RunTMC, Sandman, P.D., Notmegov, tommysvr, Aldo, superspurs, jamonserrano, parklane1, stinkfoot, Jurgen the German, Modrical, SteveAWOL, Finney Is Back, Gazza Dazzla, yiddo37, Roland Beurre, Lemonade Money, Craig_J, Bishop, Mr Gogolak, totalspurs, DeanoAustin, Transylvanian, OleBoot, Kandi1977, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Spoonman, SpiderSpur, splisskenthecat)

Top 10: 8 votes (fernadez, Spur of the moment, djp82, johnola, Gazza, Mcfee, FolkestoneSpur, Silly McSilly Face)

You can clearly see from that that a majoritry of people expected us to do pretty well this season and, in fact, only a very small number expected us not to finish in the top 8 (well done to you 8 folk with good judgement!).

You can also see that there is clearly a whole bunch of revisionism from some people on here saying that they've always said we had a rubbish squad with some of those same people having us down for qualifying for Europe before the season started.

 

[Mabspurs]

Last season the masses were claiming 17th was nowhere near where we should be with this set of players and because of it Ange had to go - that 17th place finish sure seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting now.

Pitch that to whoever said Ange had to go.... this obsession that anybody who is trying to be logical and factual about Frank is invariably one of the Ange-out crowd is ridiculous

Having acquired Kudus, Palhinha, Simons, Muani, at the expense of a declining Son it's a bit of a stretch to say the squad is exactly the same. Have you ever bothered to consider that had the likes of Simons and Muani, two players who have shown attacking quality in past seasons gone to teams who actually set up to play football they wouldn't be so ineffective?

Son/Madders/Kulu and Dom had 55 goal involvements last season in a team that finished 17th. Kudus, Simons, Kolo Muani currently have 10 in a team which is higher in the table. Have you ever possibly considered that had the likes of Simons and Muani are so ineffective because - at least up till now they have not been up to it and it is they - not the system - that is the problem?

Trying to absolve the manger and put it all on the players being poor is nonsense. Sure if we want to be top 4 we could do with some better players/some star quality but it can also be true that with what we have the manager could and should have us doing better than we currently are....

Trying to absolve the players and putting it all on the manager is nonsense...

 

[Mabspurs]

Reading this and other threads on here I couldn't help but think there seems to be a whole bunch of revisionism coming from a lot of people on here regarding the quality of our squad and what they expected from us this year.

I wondered how I could try to show that without having to trawl through every message in every thread back in June/July/August and then remembered that we always have a poll at the start of the season asking what peoples expectations are. I went and found it and here are the results:

Qualify for CL: 20 votes (LutonSpurs, thfcsteff, Baleforce, Trixster, indospurs, GutterBoy, Lakey, spurrrr, Robspur12, NLS, Junior19, JerusalemMan, Surfless, IulianSteaua, OleBoot, alekaras, afsoc4life, spanishspur, veryoldspur, parj)

Qualify for Europa League: 51 votes (tw12yid, monkeybarry, Yiddo, spurspinter1, ledley's knee injections, Jordinho, metalgear, Bedfordspurs, lurker of old, El Dante, Dave T316, RunTMC, Raziel, The Fatman, P.D., Bullet, billyiddo, tommysvr, Aldo, Outrance, Juicebox, K.D.D.D.D.Soc, FatBloke, parklane1, nelto, stinkfoot, Daisuk, dingdongo, Gazza Dazzla SpurMeUp, demotw, Bishop, kb 1984, richie_spur, IulianSteaua, Transylvanian, glasgowspur, Kandi1977, alekaras, Tristan Barnett, DubSpur, NoLimits01, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Chutz, kendoddsdadsdog, Push and run, fido 1982, Somerset Spurs, parj, BrentwoodSpur)

Win a trophy: 23 votes (monkeybarry, Yiddo, fernadez, markysimmo, The Fatman, GutterBoy, superspurs, Juicebox, Modrical, SteveAWOL, NLS, spuringh, Junior19, kb 1984, totalspurs, Gazza, Surfless, Tristan Barnett, afsoc4life, spanishspur, Lilbaz, SpiderSpurs, BrentwoodSpur)

Top 8: 36 votes (tw12yid, mudshark, Lost Mango, lurker of old, El Dante, RunTMC, Sandman, P.D., Notmegov, tommysvr, Aldo, superspurs, jamonserrano, parklane1, stinkfoot, Jurgen the German, Modrical, SteveAWOL, Finney Is Back, Gazza Dazzla, yiddo37, Roland Beurre, Lemonade Money, Craig_J, Bishop, Mr Gogolak, totalspurs, DeanoAustin, Transylvanian, OleBoot, Kandi1977, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Spoonman, SpiderSpur, splisskenthecat)

Top 10: 8 votes (fernadez, Spur of the moment, djp82, johnola, Gazza, Mcfee, FolkestoneSpur, Silly McSilly Face)

You can clearly see from that that a majoritry of people expected us to do pretty well this season and, in fact, only a very small number expected us not to finish in the top 8 (well done to you 8 folk with good judgement!).

You can also see that there is clearly a whole bunch of revisionism from some people on here saying that they've always said we had a rubbish squad with some of those same people having us down for qualifying for Europe before the season started.

Ever gone to a restaurant with great reputation optimistically expecting a fantastic meal only to realise it was not all that it was made up to be... especially if the master chef was ill on the day you went??

Who of those voters knew that Dom, Kulu, Madders and Udogie would not kick a ball in anger over the following 6 months? Or that Simons and Muani - who came with massive reputations - would find it so difficult to adapt to the premiership and be so ineffective?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Reading this and other threads on here I couldn't help but think there seems to be a whole bunch of revisionism coming from a lot of people on here regarding the quality of our squad and what they expected from us this year.

I wondered how I could try to show that without having to trawl through every message in every thread back in June/July/August and then remembered that we always have a poll at the start of the season asking what peoples expectations are. I went and found it and here are the results:

Qualify for CL: 20 votes (LutonSpurs, thfcsteff, Baleforce, Trixster, indospurs, GutterBoy, Lakey, spurrrr, Robspur12, NLS, Junior19, JerusalemMan, Surfless, IulianSteaua, OleBoot, alekaras, afsoc4life, spanishspur, veryoldspur, parj)

Qualify for Europa League: 51 votes (tw12yid, monkeybarry, Yiddo, spurspinter1, ledley's knee injections, Jordinho, metalgear, Bedfordspurs, lurker of old, El Dante, Dave T316, RunTMC, Raziel, The Fatman, P.D., Bullet, billyiddo, tommysvr, Aldo, Outrance, Juicebox, K.D.D.D.D.Soc, FatBloke, parklane1, nelto, stinkfoot, Daisuk, dingdongo, Gazza Dazzla SpurMeUp, demotw, Bishop, kb 1984, richie_spur, IulianSteaua, Transylvanian, glasgowspur, Kandi1977, alekaras, Tristan Barnett, DubSpur, NoLimits01, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Chutz, kendoddsdadsdog, Push and run, fido 1982, Somerset Spurs, parj, BrentwoodSpur)

Win a trophy: 23 votes (monkeybarry, Yiddo, fernadez, markysimmo, The Fatman, GutterBoy, superspurs, Juicebox, Modrical, SteveAWOL, NLS, spuringh, Junior19, kb 1984, totalspurs, Gazza, Surfless, Tristan Barnett, afsoc4life, spanishspur, Lilbaz, SpiderSpurs, BrentwoodSpur)

Top 8: 36 votes (tw12yid, mudshark, Lost Mango, lurker of old, El Dante, RunTMC, Sandman, P.D., Notmegov, tommysvr, Aldo, superspurs, jamonserrano, parklane1, stinkfoot, Jurgen the German, Modrical, SteveAWOL, Finney Is Back, Gazza Dazzla, yiddo37, Roland Beurre, Lemonade Money, Craig_J, Bishop, Mr Gogolak, totalspurs, DeanoAustin, Transylvanian, OleBoot, Kandi1977, Mikey10, Hotspur75, Spoonman, SpiderSpur, splisskenthecat)

Top 10: 8 votes (fernadez, Spur of the moment, djp82, johnola, Gazza, Mcfee, FolkestoneSpur, Silly McSilly Face)

You can clearly see from that that a majoritry of people expected us to do pretty well this season and, in fact, only a very small number expected us not to finish in the top 8 (well done to you 8 folk with good judgement!).

You can also see that there is clearly a whole bunch of revisionism from some people on here saying that they've always said we had a rubbish squad with some of those same people having us down for qualifying for Europe before the season started.

Seems a really odd point to be making. It looks like you are trying to shame people for changing their mind here, which is odd as it's a place for discussion. Could be plenty of reasons why people voted as they did, I doubt much thought goes I to it TBH. Could also be plenty of reasons why people changed their mind. Could be like many at best they would expect that but accept another. Could also be people voting on what they hope for.

I can't see my own handle in there, so even if thats because I changed my profile I couldn't even tell you if I did vote or what I did, if I did, so thats telling too.

But I can tell you having first thought the summer window was very good ive changed my mind because I dont think Xavi has hit the ground as I hoped, Kudus isn't as good as early promise and as much as I love Pali he is workman, not a typical full impact player. Kolo the jury is majorly out despite there being fans of his wiki page here.

I also wasn't expecting to see people like Solanke and Deki, two of the most Key players in our squad effectively spend the season on their backside. People can play that down all they want but they are a huge loss, not sure how it can be argued otherwise

 

[Finney Is Back]

Ever gone to a restaurant with great reputation optimistically expecting a fantastic meal only to realise it was not all that it was made up to be... especially if the master chef was ill on the day you went??

Who of those voters knew that Dom, Kulu, Madders and Udogie would not kick a ball in anger over the following 6 months? Or that Simons and Muani - who came with massive reputations - would find it so difficult to adapt to the premiership and be so ineffective?

Sorry mate, but we haven't had that much of an injury problem this season, pretty much just a standard level of injuries as all clubs have.

The facts are that people are now saying they have always said the squad was the problem and they don't expect us to be higher than we are now when in actual fact they had us down for a decent season. At THFC it's not that our master chef is ill, it's that our master chef has come from a Harvester and thinks that is top quality food.

 

[billyiddo]

People in being positive at the dawn of a new era shocker

 

[Finney Is Back]

Seems a really odd point to be making. It looks like you are trying to shame people for changing their mind here, which is odd as it's a place for discussion. Could be plenty of reasons why people voted as they did, I doubt much thought goes I to it TBH. Could also be plenty of reasons why people changed their mind. Could be like many at best they would expect that but accept another. Could also be people voting on what they hope for.

I can't see my own handle in there, so even if thats because I changed my profile I couldn't even tell you if I did vote or what I did, if I did, so thats telling too.

But I can tell you having first thought the summer window was very good ive changed my mind because I dont think Xavi has hit the ground as I hoped, Kudus isn't as good as early promise and as much as I love Pali he is workman, not a typical full impact player. Kolo the jury is majorly out despite there being fans of his wiki page here.

Why should anyone be shamed for changing their mind? I'm just showing that at the start of the season a majority on here thought we would have a good season and hardly anyone thought we would have a bad season. Yet now we're seeing a bunch of people saying that they've always said we have a poor squad and we shouldn't expect anything better of the manager, etc.

I have no idea what your old handle was but if it doesn't appear then you didn't vote (I just copy pasted from the poll).

Those thoughts you have about the new players may well be true. Alternatively, we could just have a poor manager who struggles to be able to set up a team who's aims are a lot higher than survival as he is used to.

For what it's worth I thought we would be top 8 (7th or 8th). So I'm also well out myself and would now revise that to 12th to 14th if there was another poll. I was reasonably clear that I didn't think Frank was the right manager for Spurs but I also didn't think he would be this poor at trying to set up a team to do something other than defend deep and go long.

 

[Mabspurs]

Sorry mate, but we haven't had that much of an injury problem this season, pretty much just a standard level of injuries as all clubs have.

The facts are that people are now saying they have always said the squad was the problem and they don't expect us to be higher than we are now when in actual fact they had us down for a decent season. At THFC it's not that our master chef is ill, it's that our master chef has come from a Harvester and thinks that is top quality food.

Sorry mate, but if you think having the players who were responsible fpr 78% of our goal involvements last season - that's 78% -

Son/Madders/Kulu and Dom had 55 goal involvements last season in a team that finished 17th

unavailable for the whole of this season - is not "much of an injury problem", then I guess there is little to discuss rationally...

 

[Mabspurs]

I was reasonably clear that I didn't think Frank was the right manager for Spurs

The key sentence...